Dealer Prices: Changing Rear DIfferential Fluid/CVT Trans Fluid/PTU Fluid

Mmdambro · Dec 20, 2011

So I am taking a trip to Killington, Vt and figured I should do most of the 60k Fluid Service before I go up to the freezing cold temps since I am at 55k. I typically do this sort of stuff by myself considering it is typically an easy job and all you need is fluid (and filters/gaskets etc for the trans)

Well I went into the dealer to buy the fluid for the rear diff and Power Transfer Unit.

This is what the manual says:

Power Transfer Unit (PTU)
Mopar® Gear & Axle Lubricant SAE 80W-90 API GL 5 or equivalent non-synthetic product. 540ml

Rear Drive Assembly (RDA)
Mopar® Gear & Axle Lubricant SAE 80W-90 API GL 5 or equivalent non-synthetic product. 540ml

According to the dealer, their computer says:

Rear Diff should be 75w-140
PTU should be 80w-90

The capacity of 540mL is off too. The rear diff takes over 2000mL (not sure about that but it's def more than 540mL)

I have noticed that discrepancies like that are actually common across car makers so I didn't really care. The following is what blew me away and made me decide NOT to do the job myself.

The cost of a qt of rear diff fluid came to about $32 --PER QUART!
They said I would need about 2.5 qts which means 3 bottles which comes to almost $100. Anyone that has done this before knows that if the pump you are using is crap then you will probably spill some. Also trying to maneuver under a car with a tall bottle that has to be upright for the pumping is also a hassle so extra fluid is a must.

Then I found out the cost for the dealer to do it = $83.08 - Yes, less than the cost of the fluid.

The CVT Trans service was a similar story and instead of buying the dipstick necessary to do it yourself, the oil which is $17/qt, the gasket, filter etc. I decided to shell out the $254 they quoted me for that.

The PTU is the only one I will do myself because you only need one quart if I am not mistaken and it is only $12 while the dealer charges $73 for the service.

I thought this was interesting and figured other diy'ers like me would like to know. Here is a breakdown of the costs for changing all the fluids for a 60k service at a Jeep Dealer in Rockaway, NJ (North Jersey).

CVT Transmission Service including filter, gaskets etc: $254
Rear Differential Fluid Change: $83.08
Power Transfer Unit: $73.16
Total: $410.24

What it will hopefully cost me if I do the PTU myself:

CVT Transmission Service including filter, gaskets etc: $254
Rear Differential Fluid Change: $83.08
Power Transfer Unit fluid change done by me: $12.25
Total: $349.33

After owning a Mitsu 3000gt, Porsche 944, and an Audi A4, this is NOTHING for a 60k fluid service. The Audi Trans service alone was over 375 from a local shop and the dealer charges over 500.

Needless to say I was happy to find a situation where it was WELL worth it to go to the dealer and not have to do something myself.

For anyone who is interested in why I decided to do the 60k for my transmission when it says it should be fine until 120k under normal use. I have spoken to a number of mechanics and they all say to change before it is up. Audi claims their transmissions are lifetime sealed systems. But any audi mechanic I have spoken to has said they must be changed. I personally would be happier changing the fluids at 30k but with the price of the oil they use being so high, 60k is good enough. And of course...better safe than sorry; especially with the weak transmissions in the patriot. With a towing capacity of 1000lbs, I think severe use includes going up a moderately steep hill.

Please feel free to correct any misinformation in the capacities and numbers I have listed or add some for everyone to reference.

NHPATRIOT · Dec 20, 2011

Wow, there are a couple things that seem off in what the dealer told you to me...

1 - The trans takes special CVT fluid( 5191184AA )and that stuff is extremely expensive. $17 a qt seems cheap based on the last time I looked at it and it was selling for over $25 a qt? Maybe the price has come down recently? Just make sure it is the CVTF+4 and not regular ATF+4 which is cheaper. I question this dealer's knowledge based on some of this so make sure they use the correct fluid for your CVT.

2 - $30+ a qt for MOPAR 75W-140 is just crazy! Flat out highway robbery. You can get MOPAR 75W-140 online for $8-$12 a qt if you look around( all it is worth - average at best - it always used to be and still is to my knowledge just relabeled Mobil1 gear oil ) and most dealers will sell it for $18-$22 or so and THAT is a rip off. $30 a qt = give me a break. :doh:

3 - MOPAR 75W-140( MS-8985 )is a full synthetic fluid. That is FF in the full sized Dodge Ram 1500 trucks. I would question the dealer using it in a Patriot as Chrysler is specific in the OM that you use a non synthetic 90 weight( 80W90 as you posted )? I wonder about 2.5 qts of fluid as well. The full sized truck rear diff's only take that and the Patriot's RDA is very small in comaprison. Actually, it sounds like the dealer is giving you the spec's to do a Ram 1500 rear axle which is approx 2.7 qts of 75W-140? It could be that much fluid in a Patriot's RDA but my guess would be more around 1-1.5 qts. That is more on the norm for small suv's( AWD anyway ).

If you are going to do stuff yourself don't buy the fluids at the dealer other than the trans fluid. Dealer fluids are vastly over priced. You can get a quality name brand GL5 80W90 at any parts store for $6+/-. Even if you did run 75W-140 in the rear diff you would be much better off going aftermarket where you can get it for under $20 a qt AND even get a premium top of the line fluid like Royal Purple for that price as well. If you want to run MOPAR fluids buy them online = MUCH cheaper.

Mmdambro · Dec 20, 2011

yup, I figured some of the prices were high. But that I am used to here in jersey. Though I agree, 30/qt was crazy but thats what it was. When it comes to buying liquids online, I have found that the prices are all much lower but then the shipping brings you right back up. It may not be the same but the ease of not waiting for fluids to get here over the holiday season coupled with the trip I am taking, it didn't seem worth it. The debate comes down to whether it is worth the extra money to have the dealer do the work. I usually use royal purple but at 19 a bottle thats not so easy either. I usually use the rule of if the job done by the dealer is under 300 and would cost around 50 more than what I can do it for, I just let them do it. You get the assurance that if anything goes wrong, you can take it back to the dealer instead of messing with it for a couple more hours.

The oil between 80w-90 and 75w-140 seemed wierd but I read that somewhere else. I was also VERY surprised to see that the rear diff capacity is 540 ml. That is VERY low for a rear diff. My audi a4 was WELL over that. But who knows.

One thing I also noticed about changing the rear diff is that the fill bolt is actually about an inch or two in front of a cross member. Couldn't fit a standard 1/2 inch socket in there and unless I got the car real high off the ground it would have been a hassle to pump fluid up there.

Have you noticed the same with buying fluids online? The shipping always brings it up and a lot of the time its not worth the hassle. Though, I have not done it in a while. Do you buy from anywhere specifically?

Earthworm51 · Dec 20, 2011

Redline CVT Fluid from Redline Oil, says for Nissan and other CVT Transmissions. Look it up online, $13.95 a Qt. I would hate to suffer the results if they were wrong. Enos CVT fluid is another one I believe.

Mmdambro · Dec 21, 2011

I checked Jegs. It was what I said 19.99 for 1 qt of 75w-140 Royal Purple. Assuming you need 3 quarts there is also a $15 "handling charge."

Amazon has 75w-140 for $18 with other shipping and handling prices.

At those prices it is cheaper to get it from advanced auto and even more cost effective to have the dealer do it for $83

The prices always look better but in reality the shipping negates buying fluids online. Unless you can get a deal and swing free shipping. Even with free shipping the Royal Purple looks to be about the same price online as it is in the store...which is still pretty close to having a dealer do all the work for you

Mmdambro · Dec 21, 2011

I am, however, going to ask about the 80w-90 vs 75w140 because everything does say 80w-90. Maybe the guy I spoke to when I was buying the oil was wrong

NHPATRIOT · Dec 21, 2011

Earthworm51 said:
Redline CVT Fluid from Redline Oil, says for Nissan and other CVT Transmissions. Look it up online, $13.95 a Qt. I would hate to suffer the results if they were wrong. Enos CVT fluid is another one I believe.

Those fluids are a universal type of fluid and would not be warranty acceptable just FYI. Doesn't mean they wouldn't work but if you have any warranty concerns only use a CVTF+4 fluid. Fluids that meet that spec as well as others will not be accepted if a warranty issues arises.

NHPATRIOT · Dec 21, 2011

Mmdambro said:
yup, I figured some of the prices were high. But that I am used to here in jersey. Though I agree, 30/qt was crazy but thats what it was. When it comes to buying liquids online, I have found that the prices are all much lower but then the shipping brings you right back up. It may not be the same but the ease of not waiting for fluids to get here over the holiday season coupled with the trip I am taking, it didn't seem worth it. The debate comes down to whether it is worth the extra money to have the dealer do the work. I usually use royal purple but at 19 a bottle thats not so easy either. I usually use the rule of if the job done by the dealer is under 300 and would cost around 50 more than what I can do it for, I just let them do it. You get the assurance that if anything goes wrong, you can take it back to the dealer instead of messing with it for a couple more hours.

The oil between 80w-90 and 75w-140 seemed wierd but I read that somewhere else. I was also VERY surprised to see that the rear diff capacity is 540 ml. That is VERY low for a rear diff. My audi a4 was WELL over that. But who knows.

One thing I also noticed about changing the rear diff is that the fill bolt is actually about an inch or two in front of a cross member. Couldn't fit a standard 1/2 inch socket in there and unless I got the car real high off the ground it would have been a hassle to pump fluid up there.

Have you noticed the same with buying fluids online? The shipping always brings it up and a lot of the time its not worth the hassle. Though, I have not done it in a while. Do you buy from anywhere specifically?

I haven't owned my Patriot that long but I have not heard or read about anyone saying anything about running 75W140 in the RDA? You are the 1st person I have heard say that. I have been trying to get Jeep/Chrysler to tell me if using 75W90 synthetic is ok and have got nowhere with that never mind going to a thicker 75W140???

The concern I have with using synthetic is the specific mention in the OM to use non synthetic fluid. Now, it could simply be a case where Chryysler is just saying use conventional 80W90( very few synthetic 80W90's out there - I only know of 2 = Royal Purple and Amsoil )because it is good enough to do the job so they picked it( cheap vs synthetic s ) OR it could actually be a specific wording to ensure you don't use synthetic due to a mechanical reason? That is what I tried to find out and could not get an answer to save my life.

There are certain aftermarket rear diff lockers for full sized trucks for instance that will not operate properly with synthetic fluid in them. The fluid is too slippery and the locker won't engage and operate properly with it. The mfg's actually tell customers the part's warranty wiill be voided with synthetic fluid use. Is that the case with the Patriot's RDA? Is synthetic too slippery for it? It could be and is not a totally ridiculous theory. I can't imagine the PTU having issues with that but who knows?

To me you have to be careful if you have warranty or can't afford repairs if no warranty. Chrysler says GL5 80W90 non synthetic gear oil in the PTU and RDA. Not 75W140 which is always a synthetic. I might consider trying a run of 75W90 or even a 80W90 synthetic/synthetic blend and see if any issues arose and do an immediate swap back to 80W90 conventional if I felt or heard "issues". I wouldn't run 75W140 however unless I saw a TSB or some kind of owner's manual update direct from Chrysler saying to use it. ONly a 90 weight. JMHO.

Yes, online shipping can be an issue. However, that is part of the shopping around I talked about. You have to look for the places that have fair prices on the item to start and then you look to see if they also offer free shipping if you spend over X$$$. Many will have some type of promotion/coupon code that offsets the shipping if they don't offer free ship. Just have to shop around.

You can also look for deals at local places. For instance Advance Auto Parts has a ton of promotion codes that can be used online when ordering. Depending on how much you spend they take a bigger % or $$$ amount off the order and it can be significant. I use this all the time and order online for store pickup so no shipping fees. Some items can't be included in the discount like engine oil but most things can.

For instance, I can go to AAP's website and...

1 - add 3qts Royal Purple 75W90 or 75W140 to cart( $19.99 X 3 = $59.97 )
2 - apply promotion code A123 which saves me $20 off $50+( $59.97 - $20 = $39.97 )
3 - select store pickup( when available )
4 - I end up paying $39.97( $39.97 / 3 = $13.33 each )

If I wanted to do regular 80W90 conventional I can still save there and it would depend on how much I bought as to how much I saved. if I buy enough to do the PTU at the same time I save more...

RDA & PTU:
1 - add 5qts Valvoline 80W90 to cart( $6.49 X 5 = $32.45 )
2 - apply A123 again which saves me $10 off $30+ this time( $32.45 - $10 = $22.45 )
3 - select store pickup( when available )
4 - I end up paying $22.45( $22.45 / 5 = $4.49 each )

Just RDA:
1 - add 3qts Valvoline 80W90 to cart( $6.49 X 3 = $19.47 )
2 - apply P20 this time which saves me 20% off any order( $19.47 - 20%[$3.89] = $15.58 )
3 - select store pickup( when available )
4 - I end up paying $15.58( $15.58 / 3 = $5.19 each )

That is just at one source. Deals like that are out there everywhere. Summit, Jegs, Stylintrucks, etc... all at times offer deals. I got some RP through Summit last year. They had a deal where you got 5qts of RP oil( marked down )and a free RP oil filter. I had a $5 off code to use too so in the end even with shipping I saved due to the free filter figured in. Just this past October PepBoys had a deal where you could buy 5qts of RP oil for $35( 7 a qt )and you also got a mail away form to get a free RP t-shirt. They quite often run a special where you can get 5qts of RP oil and an RP oil filter for $45. The deals are out there.

Sometimes they aren't valid/ongoing when you need it but usually if you look hard enough you can find a deal that makes buying online( even when you pick up local )cheaper than any other option. Now, with that said, I actually buy my Royal Purple oil and other fluids( 99% of the time )through one of 2 local speed shops. The 1st and preferred place I have dealt with for over 20 years. The 2nd place I started dealing with in the last 5 years or so as they do custom exhuast work and such the other guy does not do anymore. I can't beat the prices from them( 99% of the time )anywhere even with coupons and such. That is not the norm though and I realize that. Thus my long post above about how you get stuff cheaper.

dixiedawg · Dec 21, 2011

I thought the CVT service was at 100K miles, not 60K?

Earthworm51 · Dec 21, 2011

Do you work for Royal Purple ? I used it in one of my Jeeps once with no complaints. I use Amsoil instead. I use Redline in the Transmission in my Jeep Comanche but Amsoil in the Engines. The Redline Oil I looked up said for Nissan CVTs too. I have easy access to Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple, just a short distance away from my house. Bottom line is whatever oil a person is happy with that fits their budget. Also don't forget the Mobil1 for the engine!

Mmdambro · Dec 21, 2011

Well the 100k service is what the manual reccommends but I do 60k based on my own experience. I listed a few reasons why for anyone interested. Part of it is just rambling so I apologize for that.

Reason 1: The truth of the matter is that most likely, if you have a reason to change your fluid, then it is too late and damage is already done. Wait for 100k on a car that is given a transmission that is already small for the car and cars in general seems like a big gamble to me. The maintenance numbers are suggestions. People make it way past 100k without a problem and people have transmissions crap out well under 100k. The only way to avoid a premature crapout is to keep your tranny healthy. This means new fluid.

Reason 2: The dealer mechanics are told everything they know about transmissions and specialized parts during training. CVT transmissions are relatively new for jeep vehicles and therefore relatively new to jeep mechanics. MOST mechanics probably have a lot of experience with standard auto transmissions and are updated on the CVT. I have dealt with completely closed transmissions that never need a change in the fluid, according to the manufacturer. Even these transmissions work better with new fluid and that has been proven over and over again.

A lot of the transmissions today seem to be leaning toward, if it isn't broke (grinding, leaking, etc), don't fix it. This works great for the car company because like I said, once you get to the point where you think the car is shifting differently or think a fluid change might help, it is probably too late and even if its not too late, when they empty your fluid, you will see little shards of metal draining too...and the dealler is the one that gets to charge you a couple thousand to fix it

Mmdambro · Dec 21, 2011

Earthworm51 said:
Do you work for Royal Purple ? I used it in one of my Jeeps once with no complaints. I use Amsoil instead. I use Redline in the Transmission in my Jeep Comanche but Amsoil in the Engines. The Redline Oil I looked up said for Nissan CVTs too. I have easy access to Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple, just a short distance away from my house. Bottom line is whatever oil a person is happy with that fits their budget. Also don't forget the Mobil1 for the engine!

Yea I personally love royal purple. I use it whenever possible. It is expensive though and in my situation, at least this time, having the dealer do it with oem oil for almost the same price and in some cases cheaper than I can do it seemed like a no brainer.

I hear many people swear by mobil1. I also know many people that will never use it. I use standard Quaker State oil and change it every 3000 miles. I have never had ANY oil related problems in any of my vehicles and it is CHEAP. I have also spoken to mechanics that said, if you are diligent about changing oil, you don't need the expensive stuff....unless of course your vehicle calls for full synthetic.

Earthworm51 · Dec 21, 2011

Mmdambro, I agree with you. It's better to do it early than later. It's called Preventive Maintenance for those that take the extra time and money, if they can afford it.

Mmdambro · Dec 21, 2011

yea its a fine line between whether you can afford it or not. rear diff being changed every 60k doesn't need it for a jeep patriot imo. My gf has a subaru wrx and I will only put royal purple in that rear diff.

Earthworm51 · Dec 21, 2011

Redline CVT Fluid Part #30804 will work in Jeep Patriots with CVT Transmissions. I talked to the Manufacturer today and He give me this part #. It can be found on the Internet and sells for $13.95 a quart . It is another option for the DIYers.

NHPATRIOT · Dec 21, 2011

Earthworm51 said:
Redline CVT Fluid Part #30804 will work in Jeep Patriots with CVT Transmissions. I talked to the Manufacturer today and He give me this part #. It can be found on the Internet and sells for $13.95 a quart . It is another option for the DIYers.

Again, just to point out that compatible with/will work and warranty acceptable are not the same thing. The Redline universal CVT trans fluid will not satisfy Chrysler on warranty. Just an FYI.

NHPATRIOT · Dec 21, 2011

Earthworm51 said:
Do you work for Royal Purple ? I used it in one of my Jeeps once with no complaints. I use Amsoil instead. I use Redline in the Transmission in my Jeep Comanche but Amsoil in the Engines. The Redline Oil I looked up said for Nissan CVTs too. I have easy access to Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple, just a short distance away from my house. Bottom line is whatever oil a person is happy with that fits their budget. Also don't forget the Mobil1 for the engine!

Me?

If you mean me the answer is no. Never have. I sold it once upon a time through a couple parts stores I worked in but I have no affiliation with the company. I do know some of the higher ups on a 1st name basis in sales/marketing as well as tech support but not on a personal face to face personal level( internet/auto forums/e-mail ). I have personally used RP products since 1990 in my vehicles.

Earthworm51 · Dec 22, 2011

NHPATRIOT said:
Again, just to point out that compatible with/will work and warranty acceptable are not the same thing. The Redline universal CVT trans fluid will not satisfy Chrysler on warranty. Just an FYI.

Do you like or wear Purple ?

NHPATRIOT · Dec 22, 2011

Earthworm51 said:
Do you like or wear Purple ?

What kind of ridiculous question is this and what does it have to do with my comments about the Redline CVT fluid?

Earthworm51 · Dec 22, 2011

NHPATRIOT said:
What kind of ridiculous question is this and what does it have to do with my comments about the Redline CVT fluid?

If ROYAL PURPLE made CVT Fluid, then you would jump all over it and Promote it.

Dealer Prices: Changing Rear DIfferential Fluid/CVT Trans Fluid/PTU Fluid

Mmdambro

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Mmdambro

Earthworm51

Mmdambro

Mmdambro

NHPATRIOT

NHPATRIOT

dixiedawg

Earthworm51

Mmdambro

Mmdambro

Earthworm51

Mmdambro

Earthworm51

NHPATRIOT

NHPATRIOT

Earthworm51

NHPATRIOT

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