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Jeep Patriot vs. Subaru Forester?

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#41 · (Edited)
I haven't read the full thread, so apologize if someone else has said this. In October/November. 2007, I spent a lot of time on the Forester and Patriot Forums researching the 2008 Foresters and Patriots. Also at the local dealerships.

Through 2008, the Forester could be had with AWD or AWD with a limited slip rear differential. Without the limited slip differential, it would be possible to have all the torque goiing to and spinning the tire on the front axle with the least traction and the tire on the rear axle with the least traction. The Forester did not get active traction control until 2009.

I sometimes drive a muddy road where one side or the other of my vehicle will be in an extended mudhole. Advantage to the 2008 Patriot with its traction control..

There were many reports of problems with the sunroofs on the Forester forum. The 2008 upgrade package with the rear limited slip differential required me to get stuff I didn't want, and limited me in exterior/interior colors. Here in South Texas, I won't have a car with other than a white exterior. Subaru didn't seem to know about South Texas. The Forester dash was black, even on a base white Forester with the tan interior.

My 2008 FDI Patriot is doing 2625 RPM in fifth at 70 mph. The 2008 Forester was doing 3000 RPM. The mileage figures for the Patriot were about 10% better than the Forester.

The Patriot was mostly built in the USA.

I bought the Patriot.

gtrdave said:
...I'm pretty much a die-hard Chrysler fan and have been since I was a kid. Still, I'm having a difficult time trusting a vehicle that was built during such a tumultuous time in the company's history...
Click to expand...
This is one of those intangibles. When I ordered mine, the bankruptcy was still over a year away.
 
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#43 ·
I wouldnt buy a subi because of their stupid "Love" commercials. What kinda pansy metrosexual BS is that anyway? :icon_rolleyes:

I love when they show them covered in mud, or "off roading" on a flat dirt road.
 
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Discussion starter · #44 ·
Okay, the ball is now back in the Forester court.
We test drove another Patriot today and came away with the following:
It has LOTS of headroom.
Front seat passenger room is great.
Back seat passenger is adequate, probably slightly roomier than the Sub.
Rear storage is a little less.
The rear seatbacks are adjustable to the point of slightly reclining.
The CVT is a performance vampire, sucking a good portion of the 172 horsepower from the engine before it ever hits the wheels.

Before we drove the Pat, we did visit our local Subie dealer and they had a new/used '04 and '05 2.5X. The one that we like had not even been vacuumed out since traded in and had dog hair all over the seats and smelled funky. WHY EVEN PUT THE THING ON THE LOT???!!!
We told them to completely clean it before we come back to test drive it.
If they do and we like it and can agree upon a price, it looks like the Forester may win this competition, although the dealer across the street has a 5 speed Pat. that I'd like to drive, just to see the difference in performance.

Stay tuned...
 
#45 ·
gtrdave said:
The CVT is a performance vampire, sucking a good portion of the 172 horsepower from the engine before it ever hits the wheels.
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My understanding is that a CVT has a lower power train loss then an automatic. I did two test drives of a CVT powered vehicle and both times I came away with the same impression that the CVT is just weird to drive. Off the line you don't get the jump that a torque converter provides so it feels very slow, although I don't think it is, it's just very smooth. At speed when you floor it the RPM goes to red line and stays put, even though you're accelerating you don't get the feel of the transmission changing gears and the motor changing speeds. I think this makes you feel as if you're not gaining speed, but if you watch your speedo it's swinging up at a good pace. I would bet that because the CVT keeps the motor at redline, the CVT has more passing ability then a traditional automatic and a traditional 5-speed, it just won't feel like it. You also get better fuel economy because you don't get any slip from the torque converter like you do with a traditional auto and the motor can stay in it's ideal RPM range.

But yes, the CVT is very weird to drive.
 
Discussion starter · #46 ·
MrMischief said:
My understanding is that a CVT has a lower power train loss then an automatic. I did two test drives of a CVT powered vehicle and both times I came away with the same impression that the CVT is just weird to drive. Off the line you don't get the jump that a torque converter provides so it feels very slow, although I don't think it is, it's just very smooth. At speed when you floor it the RPM goes to red line and stays put, even though you're accelerating you don't get the feel of the transmission changing gears and the motor changing speeds. I think this makes you feel as if you're not gaining speed, but if you watch your speedo it's swinging up at a good pace. I would bet that because the CVT keeps the motor at redline, the CVT has more passing ability then a traditional automatic and a traditional 5-speed, it just won't feel like it. You also get better fuel economy because you don't get any slip from the torque converter like you do with a traditional auto and the motor can stay in it's ideal RPM range.

But yes, the CVT is very weird to drive.
Click to expand...
I know that the trans in my Yamaha Tmax is of a different origin, but it's still a CVT and it has the same feel as the trans in the Patriot. It is smooth (I'll never pull a wheelie on it) and it operates almost invisibly, but it does lack the low-end 'grunt'...the immediate accel. feeling...that a traditional auto evokes.
 
#47 ·
gtrdave said:
Okay, the ball is now back in the Forester court.
We test drove another Patriot today and came away with the following:
It has LOTS of headroom.
Front seat passenger room is great.
Back seat passenger is adequate, probably slightly roomier than the Sub.
Rear storage is a little less.
The rear seatbacks are adjustable to the point of slightly reclining.
The CVT is a performance vampire, sucking a good portion of the 172 horsepower from the engine before it ever hits the wheels.

Before we drove the Pat, we did visit our local Subie dealer and they had a new/used '04 and '05 2.5X. The one that we like had not even been vacuumed out since traded in and had dog hair all over the seats and smelled funky. WHY EVEN PUT THE THING ON THE LOT???!!!
We told them to completely clean it before we come back to test drive it.
If they do and we like it and can agree upon a price, it looks like the Forester may win this competition, although the dealer across the street has a 5 speed Pat. that I'd like to drive, just to see the difference in performance.

Stay tuned...
Click to expand...
I think a lot of people here would agree that the CVT "feels" sluggish and slow. But the actual performance is comparable to (if not a bit better than) a normal automatic.

For all of you physics guys out there, the CVT doesn't give you a high "jerk" rate - which is the rate of change of acceleration. A normal auto goes from zero acceleration to high acceleration quickly with the torque converter doing it's thing, then drops off. The CVT doesn't do that, but just smoothly goes to the best RPM to hopefully get you peak acceleration. The seat-of-the-pants feel is then less than pleasing to most.

Try and compare actual 0-60 times or 1/4mile times for the Patriot and the Subie and see how they look.
 
#49 ·
All the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times I've seen put the Patriot right in line with the other 4 cylnder crossover SUV's. Maybe it just does indeed feel slow with the CVT. I have the 5-speed and am pretty satisfied with the performance, you just have to be willing to shift and be in the right gear.
I don't think the CVT has proiven to be better on gas than the 5-speed at all, possibly not a regular auto either...
 
Discussion starter · #50 ·
Wooden Dog said:
I don't think the CVT has proiven to be better on gas than the 5-speed at all, possibly not a regular auto either...
Click to expand...
No CVT-equipped vehicle that I'm aware of gets better mileage nor better performance than a similar vehicle w/ a manual trans, but the stats of 'normal' auto vs. CVT might be comparable. I'll have to do more research.

The closest thing to compare would be:
'05 Dodge Neon 2.0l auto - 22mpg city, 29mpg highway or 27.6 real world average
'07 Dodge Caliber 2.0l cvt - 23mpg city, 27mpg highway or 26.1 real world average
Granted, other than the assembly line and the fact that they're both Dodge's compact car, the two vehicles have very little in common. Still, you'd think that the improvements built into in the Caliber (world engine 2.0l and cvt) would result in better mpg figures.
 
Discussion starter · #51 ·
Well, the deed is done.
After much research, debate and a few test drives, today we signed the papers on our new/used 2004 Subaru Forester 2.5X w/ 35k miles (see attached).
The few complaints we had after our second Patriot test drive yesterday could not be ignored and they were enough to drive us (no pun intended) to the Subie dealer today.
We test drove 2 different Foresters: an '01 S model w/ 112k miles and lots of nice options...it was as tight as many Volvos that I've driven and one that I owned...and the '04 that we ultimately purchased.
I tried to find something that I didn't like about it, really I did.
But I couldn't.
And if stupid 'love' commercials and winning random pointless 'best lesbian car' polls is the worst that can be said for the car, that's hardly worth condemning the model.
So call me a male lesbian. I'm okay with that. :)

Thanks for all of the replies, experience and info. It's much appreciated.
 

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#52 ·
gtrdave said:
So call me a male lesbian. I'm okay with that.
Click to expand...
Let's all be sure not to pull out that lesbian when we see him stuck in the ditch.
Image


I'm just kidding, best of luck to you. I'll be the first to throw $5 in toward your birkenstock fund if you promise to keep them in your car just in case you ever have to walk home because a Jeep won't stop to help you out.
 
#54 ·
I used an 06 Forrester as my work vehicle for 2 years, and recently replaced it with a new FD1 Patriot. In my opinion they are very similar. I fitted Yoko AT/s tyres to both and they both seem able to do similar things offroad. The fuel economy is very similar, as is on road performance.
Patriot has more interior passenger room (esp in the rear), has more features and is quieter.
Overall I prefer the styling of the Patriot and the fact its not Japanese.
I guess the Forrester has a better reliability record - but ultimately Patriot Wins.
Patriot seems to go further offroad - and is definately better on unsealed roads with 4wd lock and esp on.
Go the Patriot.....
 
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#56 ·
To be fair, the 3rd generation Foresters (2009+) with VDC and increased ground clearance should be used for comparison to the Patriot's FD1. My problem has always been superficial with the Forester, i.e., from certain angles it still has a wagon look to it. But I have seen some decent offroad videos of newer Foresters (with skid plates and AT tires).
 
#57 ·
My Dad had a Forester which he ran for 10 years up to 90,000 miles with just regular servicing, first brake pads needed at 50,000 miles, exhaust at 85,000 apart from that and a change of tyres once it was faultless so much so that he traded it in for another, Subaru's are true AWD vehicles which will maintain traction better than pretty much any standard 4x4 vehicle out there with the possible exception of a Quattro system.
He also runs a Patriot but when the snow is really bad the Subaru is the vehicle of choice.
 
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#59 ·
I didn't see anything in those videos my Patriot can't do, and for a lot lower price point. And I doubt those other vehicles in the video could make my hill in winter. Although I'm not sure, bring 'em up and we'll see.

The only time I ever got stuck in the Patriot has been getting high-centered. So I would have to know the clearance of those too. And if they have skid plates, and tow hooks, and the cargo capacity.

I guess the good news is, there are options for most folks. When I needed a replacement for my Tracker, there was not a lot out there to choose from, for my needs.
 
#60 ·
OK, I'm resurrecting an old post, but it was a topic I was interested in. I just bought a 2012 Patriot. My wife has a 2006 Forester. These two cars are extremely similar in almost all aspects of size. The Patriot sits up a wee bit higher. There is a bit more room in the back seats of the Patriot and more leg room in the front (at least for me-I'm 6-2 and always feel cramped in the Forester).

The Forester has a bit more room in the cargo area, though. I was hoping I was getting more cargo space (based on the larger appearance of the Patriot next to the Forester), but you really don't. I'm curious to compare after driving for more than just one day.
 
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