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Jeep Patriot vs. Subaru Forester?

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gtrdave

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Okay, my wife and I have narrowed down our new/used vehicle search to either an '07-'08 Jeep Patriot Sport 4x4 or a '05-'08 Subaru Forester X or XS.

My wife is pretty much settled on the Jeep, but I have my reservations (cvt performance, water leaks, overall uncertainty w/ the relatively new platform) and I'm not ready to plunk down $15k on a potential unsure thing.

That said, finding a Forester that is NOT in some hideous exterior metallic puke gold w/ camel-colored interior seems like an exercise in futility...but you can't knock the reputation of the Subie. Aside from random head gasket failure, they seem to go for hundreds of thousands of miles w/ routine maintenance.
Subaru owners that I've met have almost a cult-like attitude towards their vehicles and it reminds me of Apple computer users...like myself. :D

So, do any of the Pat owners here have any experience with Subies?
I'd be interested in hearing your opinions.
 
#2 ·
I have owed 2 Patriots ('07 sport 4x4 & '10 latitude 4x4) and have never even heard of water leaks, nor myself had any other issues so to speak. The CVT does get some getting use to, but not in a bad way. The platform itself is stable. Just remember you are getting JEEP and you'll be fine. Its the only way to go.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
helo75 said:
Just remember you are getting JEEP and you'll be fine. Its the only way to go.
Click to expand...
Actually, the Patriot is a left-over chassis from the old DaimlerChrysler days, back when there was a semblance of a relationship with Mitsubishi, so it's hardly a Jeep other than in name because it's also a Dodge Caliber and very similar to a Mitsubishi Lancer.
Come 2012, if the Patriot name even survives, it will be a Fiat underneath w/ a Jeep badge on it.
But this is all beside the point... :pepper:
 
#4 ·
my buddy with a Forester chickened out on a snowy little parking area on the side of the road at the top of our local mountain. A 2wd was putting chains on to get out of the lot, and the Suby has summer tires.

I would not have hesitated to go in with the Patriot on factory Goodyear SRA tires.

I'm not saying the Suby would not have made it in and out of the lot - it may also be chicken little driver skillz.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
heckler said:
my buddy with a Forester chickened out on a snowy little parking area on the side of the road at the top of our local mountain. A 2wd was putting chains on to get out of the lot, and the Suby has summer tires.

I would not have hesitated to go in with the Patriot on factory Goodyear SRA tires.

I'm not saying the Suby would not have made it in and out of the lot - it may also be chicken little driver skillz.
Click to expand...
Three of my neighbors have Subies (Outback, Legacy wagon and Legacy sedan) and they all get up out of our steep hill in the snow w/ no problems. So does the guy with the Durango 4x4.
Then there's our other neighbor w/ a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited...sat there spinning the rear wheels in the snow until he was finally instructed to shift into 4wd mode (more money than brains, I guess...). :D

The Patriot that we're looking at has brand new SR-As on it, so that is a plus.
 
#6 ·
I was in a similar spot a few months back. Looking between the Patriot and the Forester in the $15k or less range. No Foresters felt right, and i wasn't a fan of their AWD. Ended up getting an 08 FD1 patriot, and haven't regretted it. The patriot can handle anything i throw at it, and it feels secure while doing it.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
BWheeler said:
I'm not being biased but I guess the PAT edges the Subaru forester when it comes to over all performance...
Click to expand...
I'd have to compare side-by-side road test specs to be sure, but the overall numbers on paper are not too far apart. Same goes for the safety ratings and random consumer evaluations that I've seen, which makes the decision more difficult as neither rises above the other.
 
#10 ·
I do not have experience owning one, but I am aware that they are very dependable. I really contemplating getting an Impreza before we bought our Jeep, but it was just too small. However, if I could afford an STI now, I might buy one. I also like the new Legacy. The water leak issue is non-existent in the newer models and was only on sunroof equipped Pats(I believe) so don't get a sunroof.

But for $15k, I am guessing you are looking at FWD only or used? This would be a disadvantage compared to the Subie, which is AWD. If you are looking at used, you can get a Patriot for cheaper, but try for a lower mileage 2009, 2010 so you can get the full advantage of the remaining warranty.

As for warranties, Subaru only offers 3/36k with the vehicle. Extended warranties are available, but Im sure they are $$$ like all extended warranties.
 
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Discussion starter · #11 · (Edited)
JamesNewJeep said:
I do not have experience owning one, but I am aware that they are very dependable. I really contemplating getting an Impreza before we bought our Jeep, but it was just too small. However, if I could afford an STI now, I might buy one. I also like the new Legacy. The water leak issue is non-existent in the newer models and was only on sunroof equipped Pats(I believe) so don't get a sunroof.

But for $15k, I am guessing you are looking at FWD only or used? This would be a disadvantage compared to the Subie, which is AWD. If you are looking at used, you can get a Patriot for cheaper, but try for a lower mileage 2009, 2010 so you can get the full advantage of the remaining warranty.

As for warranties, Subaru only offers 3/36k with the vehicle. Extended warranties are available, but Im sure they are $$$ like all extended warranties.
Click to expand...
We're looking strictly used and @ $15k we're looking at only the years I mentioned in the first post.
AWD/4x4 is a must.
Warranty is not an issue as we'll be purchasing an aftermarket 3/36 warranty through AAA.
And just last eve an old friend contacted me through Facebook and mentioned that they might be selling their '07 Patriot 4x4 FDI w/ ~ 40k miles on it.
Price seems good, options seem good (no sunroof) and he's sending me pics later today. :)
 
#12 ·
sube is not a 4x4
just awd,
during one of our snow storms,
i watched a sube spin 2 tires, 4x4 would spin all 4,
i watched in amusement for about 15-20 minutes as i wiped 6" of snow off the pat, enjoyed my cup of coffee, and drove out of a spot that had twice as much snow as the sube,
i pulled out without even a hiccup,
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Terasec said:
sube is not a 4x4
just awd,
during one of our snow storms,
i watched a sube spin 2 tires, 4x4 would spin all 4,
i watched in amusement for about 15-20 minutes as i wiped 6" of snow off the pat, enjoyed my cup of coffee, and drove out of a spot that had twice as much snow as the sube,
i pulled out without even a hiccup,
Click to expand...
You may have missed when I wrote that 3 of our neighbors have Subarus.
All of them have no problem getting out of our snowed-in cul de sac which is nothing but uphill when you leave any of our driveways.

The FDI system in the Patriot (the ones I'm looking at) is FWD until the front loses traction, then it's RWD, hence the term "active AWD". FDI also has the advantage of 4 wheel lock mode or real 4x4 @ low speeds only, per the video:
http://www.jeep.com/en/4x4/how_systems_work/freedom_drive/

Subaru Symmetrical AWD is not a "spin 2 tires" system. I'm not doubting what you experienced (could have been more ice than anything), but I am saying that my experience has been much different and jives with what is actually engineered into the vehicles:
http://www.subaru.com/engineering/all-wheel-drive/how-is-symmetrical-awd-different.html
 
#14 ·
I just purchased a '11 Patriot 10 days ago. I too had narrowed down the choice to a Forrester or the Patriot. I scheduled a side-by-side test drive of the two vehicles. Fortunately (?) we had 3 major snow storms that dumped 60"+ in a 15 day period. I got to test both vehicles side-by-side on snow covered roads, parking lots and an open field. It was the Patriot hands down. There were areas where I struggled to maintain traction with the Forrester. The Patriot didn't so much as bat an eye in the same conditions. Both salesmen had to change their trousers after the test drive though :)
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
FreeWillie said:
I just purchased a '11 Patriot 10 days ago. I too had narrowed down the choice to a Forrester or the Patriot. I scheduled a side-by-side test drive of the two vehicles. Fortunately (?) we had 3 major snow storms that dumped 60"+ in a 15 day period. I got to test both vehicles side-by-side on snow covered roads, parking lots and an open field. It was the Patriot hands down. There were areas where I struggled to maintain traction with the Forrester. The Patriot didn't so much as bat an eye in the same conditions. Both salesmen had to change their trousers after the test drive though :)
Click to expand...
This is good to know, thanks, although as I think someone said earlier, the all-season tires standard on a Forester are at a disadvantage to the Goodyear SR-A tires on the Jeep.
Tirerack.com reviews confirm this as the Subies OEM tires are rated lower than the Jeeps.
 
#16 ·
gtrdave said:
Actually, the Patriot is a left-over chassis from the old DaimlerChrysler days, back when there was a semblance of a relationship with Mitsubishi, so it's hardly a Jeep other than in name because it's also a Dodge Caliber and very similar to a Mitsubishi Lancer.
Come 2012, if the Patriot name even survives, it will be a Fiat underneath w/ a Jeep badge on it.
But this is all beside the point... :pepper:
Click to expand...
Yes this is a cross leveled platform and shares many things besides, but there are things that separate Patriot from the Dodge and Mitsubishi (UGH!!) and make it a Jeep---the 4x4 lock, the style, basic off road capability to name a few. Things those a fore mentioned platforms just can't compete with. The Patriot is a smaller intro Jeep that fits a nice niche (small but not too small, great gas mileage, style, and decent ability to do or go where you need to go). There are things I wish it had--an available V6 and a 19 gallon tank come to mind. Its not gonna get you through the Rubicon or up test hill in the dunes at Silver Lake, but then again that is what Wrangler is for.

And before anyone flames this I have have a '04 Wrangler so I am a Jeep guy through and through. I just think Patriot is a great all around ride.
 
#17 · (Edited)
gtrdave said:
This is good to know, thanks, although as I think someone said earlier, the all-season tires standard on a Forester are at a disadvantage to the Goodyear SR-A tires on the Jeep.
Tirerack.com reviews confirm this as the Subies OEM tires are rated lower than the Jeeps.
Click to expand...
The Patriot did not have the SR-A tires. It was equipped with a Firestone Affinity tire. The Forrester had Yokohama Geolandar G95's. I don't think it was tire that made the difference. It was more ride height. The Patriot was clearly a taller ride. That showed when I got into the open field portion of the "test". Up to that point the two vehicles were pretty much neck-in-neck. The Patriot blew the Forrester away in the open field high snow "test" The Forrester could barely navigate 12" of snow. The Patriot just pushed through it. The Patriot crapped out when I tried to drive through a 4 foot snow bank. I did back up and, finally, push through it though. I expect a lot from my 4x4.
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
helo75 said:
Yes this is a cross leveled platform and shares many things besides, but there are things that separate Patriot from the Dodge and Mitsubishi (UGH!!) and make it a Jeep---the 4x4 lock, the style, basic off road capability to name a few. Things those a fore mentioned platforms just can't compete with. The Patriot is a smaller intro Jeep that fits a nice niche (small but not too small, great gas mileage, style, and decent ability to do or go where you need to go). There are things I wish it had--an available V6 and a 19 gallon tank come to mind. Its not gonna get you through the Rubicon or up test hill in the dunes at Silver Lake, but then again that is what Wrangler is for.

And before anyone flames this I have have a '04 Wrangler so I am a Jeep guy through and through. I just think Patriot is a great all around ride.
Click to expand...
I think the Patriot will be perfect for us if we get it.
We're in no hurry to buy and so this is education time for me.
Overall, I think I'm trying to talk myself out of buying a Forester, because I am swaying that way due to it's decade-and-a-half of legacy models (no pun intended). It might sound weird, but I'm pretty much a die-hard Chrysler fan and have been since I was a kid. Still, I'm having a difficult time trusting a vehicle that was built during such a tumultuous time in the company's history.

If we were still considering the Grand Cherokee, this conversation wouldn't be occurring and there would be one parked outside right now.
My wife and I test drove an '04 w/ 55k miles on it and loved everything about it EXCEPT the fact that it gets 17mpg. :(
 
#19 ·
gtrdave said:
We're looking strictly used and @ $15k we're looking at only the years I mentioned in the first post.
AWD/4x4 is a must.
Warranty is not an issue as we'll be purchasing an aftermarket 3/36 warranty through AAA.
And just last eve an old friend contacted me through Facebook and mentioned that they might be selling their '07 Patriot 4x4 FDI w/ ~ 40k miles on it.
Price seems good, options seem good (no sunroof) and he's sending me pics later today. :)
Click to expand...
Yeah sorry about that, I realized that after I just checked back. Well if you feel comfortable with AAA's warranty, I would suggest the Patriot. Not because I am bias(well maybe)But because you have the option to turn the 4x4 off, which will give you less wear on the drivetrain over time and better fuel economy.

That was one of the other reasons I was turned off by the Subies, the fuel economy is poorer than it could be if you could drive in 4x2.
 
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#20 · (Edited)
Terasec said:
sube is not a 4x4
just awd,
during one of our snow storms,
i watched a sube spin 2 tires, 4x4 would spin all 4,
Click to expand...
4x4 with front and rear lockers (like the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon) would spin all 4. 4x4 with a limited slip rear differential may spin three tires depending on how off-road oriented the limited slip is. A 4x4 system such as the Jeep Patriot would spin 2 tires, one front and one rear. Jeep (like many manufacturers) tries to counter-act this by using the traction control system to pump the brakes on the wheel that is spinning attempting to move the power to the wheel with traction. This is not a unique to Jeep feature or system as most modern vehicles have this, like my Dodge Charger SRT8 for example. The first "offroad" vehicle that I can think of which used this technology was the Hummer H2. It works better then just having open differentials and Jeep has probably tuned this system to be more aggressive then what you'll find on street vehicles, but it does have its limitations.

In my opinion the biggest advantage that the Jeep has over the subaru are the skid plates and the "low range". By not choosing freedom drive II you lose both of these advantages. So it comes down to piddly things like MPG (small advantage Jeep), cargo space (small advantage subaru unless you don't need the rear seats then small advantage jeep). The biggest difference though is going to be the CVT vs an automatic. The CVT seems like a good idea, but on my test drive it made me feel a little sick to my stomach. You floor it, the engine goes to red line then stays there with me screaming "SHIFT! WHY WON'T YOU SHIFT!" then I realize, oh it is "shifting"/changing ratios and everything is ok. I think I could get used to the CVT, but I know my father would hate it. The CVT is going to feel slower, but I don't think it is. A quick google tells me the non-turbo Subaru runs the quarter in 17.0 @ 80.2 mph where the Jeep runs it in 17.5 @ 81 so they're neck and neck in terms of speed.

For my money, I would see if you can afford a Freedom Drive II Jeep because without it there's no real advantage the Jeep has over the Subaru. If you can't afford FDII, I'd still get a Jeep. My reason is I'd much rather say "I drive a Jeep" then "I'm a tree hugging hippy with a Subaru."


I do not own a Patriot, but I test drove one. I'm 30, married with no kids. I do own a TJ Rubicon, my previous vehicle was a TJ and my first car was a 1952 Willy's M-38 (which I still own). I'm very much a Jeep man, so I'm sure that I am biased.
 
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