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Front bumper: US vs Euro specification

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#41 ·
Tony, I think everyone is trying to help. What is proof to some of us, may not be enough for you (that is OK), however if that is the case let us know what you are looking for.

There have been many posts, links and all manner of information comes up on Google. What would you consider evidence? Let us know, we may have come across it and we may be able to forward what you need.

Not sure you are being fair, there is no conspiracy here. Failing that I think we have beaten this one to death:

:dead_horse:


Tony1911 said:
Damn. This really should not be this difficult to understand. Is there a language barrier here? You do know what the term "citing sources" means, right? Simply stating something does not make it so. Repeatedly stating something does not make it so. Stating something and demanding others find your sources is really bad form. And in a normal, rational discussion, the request for sources - should the person making the claim forget to cite them in their original claim - should not be interpreted as some sort of insult but a normal, in fact expected part of the discussion.

This would be the same "engineer" who claimed the ABS module is different in an FDII and the breathing tube for the differentials was missing from FDI? :) I think we've proven that Chrysler advertisement videos can not be trusted by now...
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#42 ·
Euro:
Image



US:
Image



and here's some history on why there's a Euro bumper

Vehicle manufacturers will have to respect more stringent safety requirements in order to reduce the severity of injury to pedestrians and cyclists involved in accidents with motor vehicles(1). These requirements are set out in a draft Directive that the European Commission tabled today. About 8,000 pedestrians and cyclists are killed and a further 300,000 injured in the EU each year in road accidents. Reducing the number of fatalities and casualties on European roads is a priority for the Commission, in line with the EU target of reducing road deaths by 50% by 2010. The Commission proposal, which takes account of the European Parliament's call for legislation in this field, (see IP/02/863), aims to reduce deaths and injuries in road traffic through changes to the construction of the front of vehicles, mainly affecting the bonnet and the bumper. Vehicle manufacturers will have to demonstrate that their vehicles satisfy a series of safety tests.
 
#43 ·
timeburgler said:
however if that is the case let us know what you are looking for.
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I am quite simply, only trying to get people to say why they have the opinion they have. On what sources they base their opinion. Someone writes "Euro-Patriots must have lower bumpers due to EU legislation". Simple question: why does this person believe that? Did they read it from somewhere? If so, where? Did they pull it out of their arse? If so, what makes them think their arse is correct in this matter? I've always thought that in a rational conversation, citing a source would be a pretty simple thing to do. "Oh, I read it in so-and-so." Okay, question answered.

But no. The conversation just keeps repeating itself.

"X is so." Okay, why do you think that? Did you read it somewhere or...?

"Because X is so!" Umm, no, really, what makes you say that?

"I told you already! X is so!" But if that were the case, why do I see around me several examples that make the claim questionable?

"X is so! Are you stupid or something? Google it!" Right...

You're right about beating a dead horse though. Oh well, at least we have established that the differences in the export bumper go beyond the plastic cover. That is an important thing to know for those who wish to modify their bumper.
 
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#44 ·
I do not understand what you want either.

Good information has been provided, even specific links. Tell them what you are looking for, or perhaps what you feel proof would be, or even what part of the information provided you feel is inaccurate.

You are not being very nice when you say they pulling things out of their a@@. A link pointing to EU legislation is not opinion in my mind.

If you do not want to do that, let this one die out, please.

:dead_horse:


Tony1911 said:
I am quite simply, only trying to get people to say why they have the opinion they have. On what sources they base their opinion. Someone writes "Euro-Patriots must have lower bumpers due to EU legislation". Simple question: why does this person believe that? Did they read it from somewhere? If so, where? Did they pull it out of their arse? If so, what makes them think their arse is correct in this matter? I've always thought that in a rational conversation, citing a source would be a pretty simple thing to do. "Oh, I read it in so-and-so." Okay, question answered.

But no. The conversation just keeps repeating itself.

"X is so." Okay, why do you think that? Did you read it somewhere or...?

"Because X is so!" Umm, no, really, what makes you say that?

"I told you already! X is so!" But if that were the case, why do I see around me several examples that make the claim questionable?

"X is so! Are you stupid or something? Google it!" Right...

You're right about beating a dead horse though. Oh well, at least we have established that the differences in the export bumper go beyond the plastic cover. That is an important thing to know for those who wish to modify their bumper.
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#45 · (Edited)
Zbee, fantastic effort. Good work, and +1 for you.

By the way, one of my lurking questions is now answered: No, the US tow hooks don't look like they can be retrofitted into a Euro spec Patriot.
 
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#46 ·
I think it's pretty clear that none of us are Chrysler Engineers and therefore cannot explain EXACTLY why the Euro Bumper is so different that the North American Bumper on a Jeep Patriot in comparison to other vehicles. Your best "source" would probably be to contact Chrysler directly:

Chrysler UK
Chrysler UK Limited
Tongwell
Milton Keynes
MK15 8BA

Telephone: 01908 301 000
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However, since the differences are obvious, we can make educated assumptions based on said differences. The steel bumper clearly sits lower on the Euro model. The welded extensions are obvious. One would assume that the lowering of the bumper coincides with the pedestrian safety laws that were implemented. Why other small SUVs don't show signs of similar extensive front end changes, none of us know for sure.

Please refrain from turning this thread into a nasty back and forth.
 
#49 ·
neamih said:
So, do these differences of the metal behind the bumper make impossible a change between plastic bumpers?
From what i see, the euro bumper has another piece of plastic mounted underneath.
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thats just a plastic skid tray i didnt remove, from what i can see its only the grey bumper thats difrent, the mount points are the same etc, i would suggest if someone where to change you would need the metal part aswell to do a swap out
 
#51 ·
I like the americans more too
but we should ask to our jeep dealers if it is possible to do the change.
because normaly you can't change it ifi is different from the original,and the US if alot different from the american.
we wiil see
 
#52 ·
Hi everybody,
Unfortunately I came too late for this task. But I guess it is never too late to reactivate an issue in here, so I will just try my luck.
The issue about why we are having different front bumpers than the US market may be an issue of law (as other vehicules still come with good aproach angles) or in my opinion also could also be a mix between some European marketing technique and cooling conditions for the diesel engine. I don't know and as far as we don't have a technitian of Chrysler with us I guess we will never know the true reason =>> but honestly speaking I don't really care much about it (unless the cooling).
The thing is that I am thinking to change the bumper on my riot and as far as it seems I would need to change also the steel reinforcement bellow. Now looking on what's arround on the after market sales I only find the following:
(http://www.discountbodyparts.com/ca...true&Ntt=2007+Jeep+Patriot+Bumper+Reinforcement&dbpid=shopzilla&dbpid=shopzilla)

According to what I saw this would coincid to the EU reinforcement while I am looking for the US reinforcment.

Could anyone tell me if I am right or tell me where I could get a US reinforcement?

Appreciating any answer

Thanks
 
#58 ·
Hey Zbee,
This would be the ultimate bumper!!! If I would life out were you are. I read your and Stues treads!!! Realy great work => Two thumbs up!!! Amasing aproach angle and looks just great!!! How does homologation in Australia work. Do they care much about it. I'd guess it would be dificult to bring it through tech inspection were we are... Do you know if Stu had any european customers or distributers???
 
#60 ·
stu i understand is negotiating with distributors as far as i know, his site is coming along
http://www.murchisonproducts.com.au/
as to compliance the bars are manufactured to legal specifications for australia, there are only 3 made sofar, it can be a grey area as to various laws, kennesaw have done something similar in the states
Image

this gives a better look at the depature angles, when stu and i can get the time we are looking at doing some more tweaks to my beast
 
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