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paokarathodoros

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I have stuck in beach sand last summer (4x4 FD I, esp full off) - and since I am afraid to try sand-

The strange thing was that the wheels did not spin (as is the usual stuck). Once the car stuck and I stopped, then nomatter how much I pressed the gas pedal the engine did not respond (as if it has been locked).

Finaly I got out on reverse gear. I asked the local dealer and told me that this is due to the low torque at low rpm...

Have u tried patriot on beach sand? How did it cope?
 
#2 ·
paokarathodoros said:
I have stuck in beach sand last summer (4x4 FD I, esp full off) - and since I am afraid to try sand-

The strange thing was that the wheels did not spin (as is the usual stuck). Once the car stuck and I stopped, then nomatter how much I pressed the gas pedal the engine did not respond (as if it has been locked).

Finaly I got out on reverse gear. I asked the local dealer and told me that this is due to the low torque at low rpm...

Have u tried patriot on beach sand? How did it cope?
Click to expand...
Although more for my concerns in mud and snow rather than sand, I keep two of these in the cargo area against the rear seats. Fits perfectly, stows out of the way, even allows my shovel to tuck in neatly into the curved area up against the MAXTRAX stowed up against the rear seat.
 
#3 ·
I drive my PAtty on the beach every weekend, you need to decrease the air in the tires to atleast 25, go lower if you get stuck.

Image
 
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#4 · (Edited)
How deep was the sand and were you on any sort of incline? What you describe is somewhat common, I've been bogged down in the sand quite a few times, and I feel that sand is the MK's worst nightmare. In any sort of deep sand where all 4 tires start to spin, you will run out of torque fast.


As you can see, bogged down instantly, and that is with FDII


not quite as steep, but I had it right to the floor...

PPiekarski, that sand doesn't look overly deep, but its good to hear you haven't had any problems.
 
#5 ·
I seem to do better on beach sand in my 5spd FDI with ESP off and 4x4 "off". It seems to bog down less since it's being more selective with that limited torque and not sending it 50/50 to the front and rear wheels as it would in 4x4 mode. I know this sounds a bit counterintuitive. Anyone else have a similar experience?
 
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#6 ·
base587 said:
I seem to do better on beach sand in my 5spd FDI with ESP off and 4x4 "off". It seems to bog down less since it's being more selective with that limited torque and not sending it 50/50 to the front and rear wheels as it would in 4x4 mode. I know this sounds a bit counterintuitive. Anyone else have a similar experience?
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What you describe makes sense, in a somewhat similar technique when I get stuck or bogged down it's usually due to the BLD's being over aggressive (brake traction control on FDII's) so what I do is cycle between 4x4 locked and unlocked to give more wheel spin as a result of less aggressive BLDs
 
#7 ·
I've had my Patriot stuck in beach sand many times, wheels not spinning etc, but as soon as I let the air down in the tyres it drives straight out without a problem, I think this is a general rule with driving on sand regardless of vehicle - just remember to pump them back up :)

Image
 
#9 ·
New Jeep owner. Can someone tell me what ESP is? Read several threads about shutting it off, or shutting it "full off", when in areas of poor traction. My manual lists ESC, Electronic Stability Control, but I don't see ESP. What is it, what does it do, and why would I want to turn it off (and how?)? It's only July, but already thinking about winter and snow. Thanks!
 
#10 ·
I agree that this sounds more like the BLDs than being stuck. If the wheels won't even spin, it's the BLDs holding you back. I guess those have a place, but I don't like them. Sometimes you need to spin to get going. I really wish they had an OFF button for the BLDs.

Try airing down, and then if needed try cycling between 4x4 lock, and 4x4 unlocked as Tyler suggested.

Let's get several Patriots up to my place this winter, and we'll try some of these things out.
 
#11 ·
It sounds like what everyone else is posting. I would def agree with letting your air down to 25. I've never gotten stuck with that, but I do have a FDII. Having said that I've driven in 4x4 hi in the sand with 25 and not a problem.


The only problem I've had is with the clearance on the Pat but if you look out for the deep ruts in the sand you will be ok.


Sent from AutoGuide.com App
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
I too thing its is a problem with elecrtronics.

It is completely flat surface, the wheels donto spin. Just once bogged No matter how much I pressed the gas pedal no power was going to the wheels

I belive must be similar problem with the hill climbing issue.

Is there a way to go over it, or to shut the electronics off?


The king of sand I got stuck is a little deeper than the following picture (it was taken little before sthe stuck)
 

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#13 ·
miscrap said:
New Jeep owner. Can someone tell me what ESP is? Read several threads about shutting it off, or shutting it "full off", when in areas of poor traction. My manual lists ESC, Electronic Stability Control, but I don't see ESP. What is it, what does it do, and why would I want to turn it off (and how?)? It's only July, but already thinking about winter and snow. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Electronic stability control/electronic stability program. Same thing different names.
 
#14 ·
EXACT same thing happened to me last year on the inclined portion of the access lane to the beach. The sand was very soft and very deep. Jeep rolled to a stop, and then nothing, no tire spin or anything. I first tried all different configurations of gears, 4x4 locked and unlocked etc, until I got a couple people to push me backwards and out. Tires were at 18 PSI and all that other good stuff.

If you really want to drive these through very deep soft sand, you need to look a head, identify the areas of deep soft sand, try to ride in previous tire ruts, but not those that are too deep and pick up good momentum/speed before getting into the soft deep sand, having a look out walk ahead looking for other vehicles and pedestrians in narrow access lanes would be a good idea.

Also keep in mind you are going to stress your suspension system driving faster on sand and can break your struts, ha ha, as I did last year gunning in through soft sand. I was bouncing like I was on hydraulics.

These are only 4 cylinder vehicles and low torque power is a killer in deep soft sand.
 
#15 ·
I did ft fisher last year. Zero issues and I even had to completely stop in deep sand and start up again. Was 17psi. I also have 5spd manual. I had 4x4 locked and esp full off.

Ft fisher had really soft and deep sand on the entrance ramp that's about 1/2 mile long. Fyi. 1st/2nd gear used.
 
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#16 ·
I read somewhere that the CVT has a slip prevention feature that can reduce engine power to prevent the CVT belt from slipping too. Technically that's electronics but I don't think it is completely a BLD problem. The BLD's can contribute to that problem by causing the vehicle to loose momentum and stop, cause we all know a stopped car takes a lot more force to get moving than one that's slowly rolling, especially in sand. The second problem I think there is, at least for those with an automatic transmission, is the torque converter. The stall torque is set too low in my opinion(unless it really is the CVT electronically limiting engine power). Everyone says they get the "dead cow" syndrome at 2k rpm...if that is the torque converter's stall speed then that is the problem because a 4 banger has basically no torque at 2k...no wonder we have issues...I think our peak torque is around 4k-5k.

Best way to deal with sand is to keep it in autostick 1 to keep the rpms up, 4wd lock, esp full off, lower tire pressure if needed and to watch that the rpms don't go too high or the thing will shift to 2nd and then you run into torque problems again...They really should have used the rev limiter instead of making it shift...at least for 1rst... I did get stuck in snow once and had to take it out of 4wd lock and turn the steering wheel back and forth to get some spin and then lock it back in.

Rant off...lol
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
but on a crowded summer beach none o these can happen (get momentum, build speed etc...)

around 2500 rpm Patriot has less than 102 BHP, the maximum horsepower is at 6500 and i thing there close is maximun torque. Obviously we can not be driving at the sand at 6500 rpm... We can do it for a few second but I don thing is an option to be driving at these rpms for long time...


I guess better to avoid sandy places (at least when other people are around :pepper:


Is there a solution with the low torque issue??? (appart from engine change..(-: )
 
#18 ·
Priority #1, air down as in let the air out of all four tires for floatation. Me, I'd go to 15psi. your tires will stay on the rim. Just a ballpark figure so to speak. If ya really want to have fun then get some low profile paddle tires really wide ones. Those for off-road use only. I used to use them back in the day on my Jeeps in the Sand Dunes. Like Night and Day difference.
 
#19 ·
I've driven in plenty of sand off road, and I never had an issue. I had 245/65-17 tires, aired down to 15psi, I wouldn't always lock the 4x4, but it did make a difference when going from a stop. But I've never gotten stuck. The only times I've dealt with not feeling like I had enough power/torque was when climbing really steep hills with a lot of loose material as its surface.
 
Discussion starter · #20 · (Edited)
1) also I have heard that for sand

street tyres are better than AT, mud tyres, (since they do not dig in the sand) is it true??


2) With regard to my second query ie that the wheels did not spin (as is the usual stuck). Once the car stuck and I stopped, then nomatter how much I pressed the gas pedal the engine did not respond (as if it has been locked).

Do we come to the conclusion that is sth with the electronics? (cause also other guys here mentioned the same issue)
 
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Tyler-98-W68
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