Hi all. New to this forum. Just purchased a certified pre owned 2013 Freedom edition Patriot. This is my 2nd jeep. 1st was a TJ wrangler about 10 years ago. Anyway I was reading up on the "trail rated" badge and the FDI & II 4x4. My patriot has the 2.4L motor / tow hooks / skid plates / 17" wheels but it doesn't have the trail rated badge. So am I to assume it is not trail rated because it doesn't have the badge? Or am I missing something? Sorry if I missed this topic in another thread. Thanks in advance for any help.
Question about FDI vs. FDII / trail rated
Danno148
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Software programing and $. The FDII is a low volume feature, They already spend the R&D to get the CVT to work with a lower gear ratio, and to act like a low range. I don't know how easy that would be with a 6 speed, and i don't think the saw that it was worth the $ to invest it when they know that the whole like was going to be axed within 2 model years. I'm sure that the 9speed will find its way into the MK replacement, and that seems like it would be much more suited for a pseudo low range, just like the renegade trailhawk has.
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That's awesome you have both model's of patriots cant wait to see some videos in the future.
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Just to clarify things hopefully:
The only drivetrain difference between FD2 and FD1 is that the FD2 has a lower geared ratio pinion in the differentials. Theoretically you could swap them into a FD1 but who knows what havoc that might cause with the computers!
The CVT's themselves are identical. This means that the final drive ratio for a FD1 is higher which gives better mileage at highway cruising speeds. Around town they should theoretically be very close.
The lowest ratio on a FD1 is 14:1,
The manual is 15:1,
and the FD2 is 19:1.
Jeep should drop in the 9 speed and dual ratio differentials like the cherokee has but that may increase the cost to just outside a lot of buyers range. I'd be happy just with the low range diffs. If they can keep it under 22-23k I would trade in my Pat in a heartbeat as long as I got a good price for mine.
The only drivetrain difference between FD2 and FD1 is that the FD2 has a lower geared ratio pinion in the differentials. Theoretically you could swap them into a FD1 but who knows what havoc that might cause with the computers!
The CVT's themselves are identical. This means that the final drive ratio for a FD1 is higher which gives better mileage at highway cruising speeds. Around town they should theoretically be very close.
The lowest ratio on a FD1 is 14:1,
The manual is 15:1,
and the FD2 is 19:1.
Jeep should drop in the 9 speed and dual ratio differentials like the cherokee has but that may increase the cost to just outside a lot of buyers range. I'd be happy just with the low range diffs. If they can keep it under 22-23k I would trade in my Pat in a heartbeat as long as I got a good price for mine.
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I can say that fd2 is for sure more capable. I go on trail runs with sandstone (FD2). He can do things that I need help on with a tow cable. To me the BLDs are the same in the FD1 and FD2. I have lost grip with 2 tires and it took a half a second for the BLDs to kick in and push the other 2 tires forward.
I have plenty of fd1 offroad videos, the only performace problems I have is the lack of low range gear. The 4wd system between fd1 and fd2 is the same IMO.
I am going offroading for memorial day in the rugged sangre de cristo mountains. I hope I can get through it all, I will have the help of an xterra too.
I have plenty of fd1 offroad videos, the only performace problems I have is the lack of low range gear. The 4wd system between fd1 and fd2 is the same IMO.
I am going offroading for memorial day in the rugged sangre de cristo mountains. I hope I can get through it all, I will have the help of an xterra too.
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I have heard that the cvt's are identical before. I wanted an FDii from the start and they were hard to find in my area. (Only two within 100 miles, and neither optioned the way I would like). So, I test drove one of those and a 2013 FDi. While in the FDi I put it in autostick mode and selected 1st gear. It didn't seem anywhere near as low as the FDii CVT in "offroad mode" or "L". After the test drive I asked the salesman and he directed me to the parts department. The guy at the counter wasn't the sharpest tool in their shed, but did look up the transmissions in the 2013 FDi and the 2014 FDii that I test drove and said they were different part numbers. If they have different part numbers there must be something different between them. They may have the same ratios programmed for the normal mode, but then the FDii has a seperate ratio programmed for "L" mode. And perhaps they can be programmed either way, but dropping the FDii into "L" mode is certainly different than just starting out and keeping it in it's "1st gear" ratio. It's still not even close to a real transfer case's low range. But it does a reasonable impression.
Other than that, yes the FDii has a lower ring and pinion ratio in the differentials. And driving both around in normal operation they should be pretty close for in town driving with the FDi getting the MPG edge on the highway due to it's higher ring and pinion ratio. I would think those could be swapped out without much of an issue. I have changed ring gears in several other vehicles with as much computer control as the Patriot and have never had any undesired effects. (at least that weren't caused by me)
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I'm not so sure that the seals alone accomodate the 19 inches of water fording. I think it's a combination of things. My 2014 owners manual only lists the water fording for the FDii. The springs are all the same now. The seals and driveline vents, i don't know for sure. Perhaps one day I can park my FDii next to someone else's 2014 FDi and go over both of them to see.
Having said that, it's easy enough to buy seals from JC Whitney and some rubber hose and clamps and add the seals to the doors and relocate the vents yourself. Might even be a fun weekend project. I don't plan on driving my FDii through 19 inches of water anyway. And if stuck in a position where I didn't have a choice, what the owner's manual says about it probably wouldn't stop me from trying to get out before a major flood or something.
Having said that, it's easy enough to buy seals from JC Whitney and some rubber hose and clamps and add the seals to the doors and relocate the vents yourself. Might even be a fun weekend project. I don't plan on driving my FDii through 19 inches of water anyway. And if stuck in a position where I didn't have a choice, what the owner's manual says about it probably wouldn't stop me from trying to get out before a major flood or something.
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I remember my manual saying 19". A couple of times I may have even exceeded that but I didn't stop to check.
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I think I remember someone saying that the fd2 cvt starts out at a higher ratio all of the time unless in the Low range offroad mode. Maybe the slightly different part number just means different programming or even just that it's meant to be used with the different differentials so someone doesn't drop one into a FD1 as a replacement.
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Page 65 of my 2014 owners manual is titled Off-Road Capabilities. On that page it talks about FDi. It talks about how it works. On page 66 it talks about FDii. it goes into off-road mode, brake lock differentials, and hill descent control/hill start assist. It only mentions water fording under the off-road mode section. That's the only place itis mentioned in the paper manual at all. my 2014 also came with a DVD. if you put that in DVD-ROM drive on a computer it goes a bit more in depth. Once again under off-road capabilities there is a section on Freedom drive ii. In that section it says 19 inches of water fording capability and is clearly in the FDii section of the DVD-ROM. Perhaps earlier manuals were different. Here's a cut and paste from an online PDF version of the paper manual:
"FOUR-WHEEL DRIVE OPERATION
• This vehicle has two full time, on-demand, four-wheel-drive (4WD) systems
available, Freedom Drive I™ and Freedom-Drive II™. They provide for all-weather,
all-terrain capability for added driving security in less-than-ideal road conditions.
Freedom-Drive I™ Four Wheel Drive System
• The vehicle will constantly monitor wheel slippage and transfer power to the axle
that can use it the most.
• For additional traction in sand, deep snow or loose traction surfaces, the “4WD
Lock” sends equal amounts of the torque to the front and rear axles at low speeds.
• To activate, pull the T-handle, located in between the front driver and passenger
seats, up once and release. The “4WD Indicator Light” will come on in the cluster.
OFF-ROAD CAPABILITIES"
65
"• This can be done on the fly, at any vehicle speed. To deactivate, simply pull on the
T-handle one more time. The “4WD Indicator Light” will then turn off.
Trail Rated® Freedom-Drive II™ Four Wheel Drive System (IF EQUIPPED)
• This system offers all the benefits of Freedom Drive I™ plus
the rugged capability of true Trail-Rated off road performance
with three additional features:
Off-Road Mode
• Pulling up on the T-handle while the gear shift lever is in the
Low position activates the Off-Road mode.
• This feature allows power to be sent to all four wheels when additional traction is
required while also delivering enhanced off-road capability for water fording,
moving on steep grades and rock crawling.
Brake Lock Differential
• This feature helps keep the vehicle moving forward when one wheel loses traction
by directing power from the wheel that slips to the wheel with more grip on the
same axle providing more traction in off-road situations.
Hill Descent Control/Hill Start Assist
• The Hill Descent Control System maintains vehicle speed while descending hills
during off-road driving situations and is available in both low and reverse gears.
• This allows a smooth and controlled hill descent on rough or slippery terrain
without the driver needing to touch the brake pedal.
• The Hill Start Assist system assists the driver when starting a vehicle from a stop
on a hill.
OFF-ROAD CAPABILITIES"
66
"FOUR-WHEEL DRIVE OPERATION
• This vehicle has two full time, on-demand, four-wheel-drive (4WD) systems
available, Freedom Drive I™ and Freedom-Drive II™. They provide for all-weather,
all-terrain capability for added driving security in less-than-ideal road conditions.
Freedom-Drive I™ Four Wheel Drive System
• The vehicle will constantly monitor wheel slippage and transfer power to the axle
that can use it the most.
• For additional traction in sand, deep snow or loose traction surfaces, the “4WD
Lock” sends equal amounts of the torque to the front and rear axles at low speeds.
• To activate, pull the T-handle, located in between the front driver and passenger
seats, up once and release. The “4WD Indicator Light” will come on in the cluster.
OFF-ROAD CAPABILITIES"
65
"• This can be done on the fly, at any vehicle speed. To deactivate, simply pull on the
T-handle one more time. The “4WD Indicator Light” will then turn off.
Trail Rated® Freedom-Drive II™ Four Wheel Drive System (IF EQUIPPED)
• This system offers all the benefits of Freedom Drive I™ plus
the rugged capability of true Trail-Rated off road performance
with three additional features:
Off-Road Mode
• Pulling up on the T-handle while the gear shift lever is in the
Low position activates the Off-Road mode.
• This feature allows power to be sent to all four wheels when additional traction is
required while also delivering enhanced off-road capability for water fording,
moving on steep grades and rock crawling.
Brake Lock Differential
• This feature helps keep the vehicle moving forward when one wheel loses traction
by directing power from the wheel that slips to the wheel with more grip on the
same axle providing more traction in off-road situations.
Hill Descent Control/Hill Start Assist
• The Hill Descent Control System maintains vehicle speed while descending hills
during off-road driving situations and is available in both low and reverse gears.
• This allows a smooth and controlled hill descent on rough or slippery terrain
without the driver needing to touch the brake pedal.
• The Hill Start Assist system assists the driver when starting a vehicle from a stop
on a hill.
OFF-ROAD CAPABILITIES"
66
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Pffff 19in of water, I've done at least 24 and probably closer to 30.... and no it wasn't fun 
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Oh and I average 23MPG, combined on my commute to work every day. Have gotten as much as 25MPG on the highway.
I have a 2014 FDII on order. I considered the FDI for better MPG, especially with gas prices jumping up again ($3.89 a gal now), but wanted the bigger alternator, skids, etc that come with the FDII. For my type of off roading, I think the FDI would be fine.
My next Jeep is going to be a JKU, either a Rubicon or Sahara, and eventually will upgrade the drive train. But that will be closer to my retiring, so won;t have to make my 100 mile a day commute any more.
I have a 2014 FDII on order. I considered the FDI for better MPG, especially with gas prices jumping up again ($3.89 a gal now), but wanted the bigger alternator, skids, etc that come with the FDII. For my type of off roading, I think the FDI would be fine.
My next Jeep is going to be a JKU, either a Rubicon or Sahara, and eventually will upgrade the drive train. But that will be closer to my retiring, so won;t have to make my 100 mile a day commute any more.
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It does. But this higher ratio is the same as the FDi's "1st gear ratio". That's what I'm saying. The part number change could be as you describe, but that doesn't really jive with my personal experience during the test drive phase. THe "L" mode is lower than anything the CVT in the FDi offers. I'm sure it's just a programming change, but still completely different than just being locked into it's 1st gear ratio. I'm sure Tyler-W-68 can vouch for this as he has owned both.
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Because of the diff being geared lower. It makes sense that the tranny would still be identical. No reason for them to design a different one.
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I never said an FDi wouldn't do it. Just what Jeep says about it. The FDi is still more capable than any other small CUV out there. No RAV4 or CR-V is going to hang with an FDi Patriot off road. I'm just pointing out the differences in the manual in Jeep's words.Pffff 19in of water, I've done at least 24 and probably closer to 30.... and no it wasn't fun
Now as for the CVT thing, I have driven both and there is no mistaking the difference once in "L" mode. I doubt most people would ever reach the limits of the FDi's capability. But then again people who buy Jeep's buy them for a reason.
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I am not sure if this is true but do you think colorado has more rugged roads than other parts of the country? I think that people in other parts of the country will be fine with just fd1, but around here you can really push the limits of fd1 just by trying to drive around the state sight seeing and not going off road just to go off road.
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Colorodo has some pretty crazy roads, but so does Arizona. Then again ever been to Montana in the winter? Or to Mississippi? There is a reason Mississippi mud is famous (or infamous depending). In VA we have some pretty challenging terrain in the blue ridge, and people who don't drive on the beach will get stuck. So, there is challenging terrain every where. I think most people never would consider taking the vehicle into that type of terrain. Those that do usually have at least some experience with it and therefore are better equipped to navigate it regardless of what they are driving. A typical soccer mom in a full blown trail rig still woudln;t get very far up a challenging trail. A Mom that has lived for 10 years in the boonies and has experince driving through mud, and over downed trees would not have a problem.
The point I was making was that most CUV's aren't designed to do what the FDi clearly can. The price point that the Patriot hits has made it a very popular vehicle. But do all those people out there driving the FDi Patriot have the skill or desire to test it's limits? Doubtful. Therefore my statement that most people will never need more than the FDi. The fact that you intentionally go out "off roading" puts you in the minority of patriot owners. Regardless of what version you have. IF you have the FDi and off road it and it fits you and serves your purpose then, that's great. And, I would say that if you actively go off roading and decide that the FDi Patriot isn't capable enough then you should be looking at a different vehicle all together as opposed to an FDii. But, when you add the expanded capability of the FDii, with the gas mileage it gets compared to a Wrangler or other full size SUV, It hits a middle spot that meets the needs or desires of some. I'm one of those.
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there simply isn't enough of a difference in the differential gearing to make up that gap. It's not designed differently. the ratio's are programmed into the CVT. It's a fluid pressure. Like a hydrostatic transmission. A simple valve body change could also explain the difference in part numbers. That would give you lower "gearing" in a CVT. Test it out for yourself. A dealership will gladly let you test drive one, and gladly let you engage off-road mode to see for yourself. Once again, it is as close to having a low range transfer case as you can get without actually having a transfer case in there. There is no way differential gearing could make up that difference without it being an "all the time" thing. The FDii does start out at a higher ratio in normal mode than it does in low mode. But that higher ratio is the same exact ratio that the FDi starts out in.
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The problem I seem to run into is I am trying to go from point A to point B and the fastest way is to go on some rough trails, sometimes I have to a hundred miles out of the way to avoid them, sometimes they are unavoidable. Its not like I am going off road on purpose, its just to save time usually. Although, I do go offroad for the fun too Maybe I am just unique and take the road less traveled. What makes Colorado unique is there are places that are quite remote, and I want to get to them for a hike or to get away from people. I take my patriot on these and it can really push the limits, I am still waiting for the optimal vehicle for me. As of right now the patriot fd1 is the best I can do.
Wrangler,xterra -rwd, too heavy, mpgs not great
4runner - too expensive
fj- too ugly IMO lol
Cherokee- too ugly IMO also :\
Grand Cherokee- too expensive, its like a luxo-barge
This leaves the compass and patriot, which are both the same to me but I like the styling on the patriot better. I am not a fan of FD2 because of the lower gas milage eventhough its not bad, but I don't like the cvt. Thats why I am really excited about the next gen patriot especially. Hope it doesn't use a cvt and still keeps the price down.
Maybe I am just unique and take the road less traveled. What makes Colorado unique is there are places that are quite remote, and I want to get to them for a hike or to get away from people. I take my patriot on these and it can really push the limits, I am still waiting for the optimal vehicle for me. As of right now the patriot fd1 is the best I can do.Wrangler,xterra -rwd, too heavy, mpgs not great
4runner - too expensive
fj- too ugly IMO lol
Cherokee- too ugly IMO also :\
Grand Cherokee- too expensive, its like a luxo-barge
This leaves the compass and patriot, which are both the same to me but I like the styling on the patriot better. I am not a fan of FD2 because of the lower gas milage eventhough its not bad, but I don't like the cvt. Thats why I am really excited about the next gen patriot especially. Hope it doesn't use a cvt and still keeps the price down.
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