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2012 Patriot Latitude 2.4l 4wd
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Discussion Starter #1
***moderators. Please move if necessary. Wasn’t sure where this would belong.
2012 Pat Latitude 2.4 4wd.
Hi all. I’m getting a wheel type(?) vibration sound that I can’t pin point if it’s front or rear, but leaning towards the rear. I recently did a tire rotation and checked and rebalanced the wheels So I feel good that they are not the problem. But I am going to check for roundness.
Where the confusion is coming from is that in February I replaced the driver side cv shaft and Im not sure if it is starting to go bad already. Or... if the rear upper control arm , driver side could be the problem. That is definitely bad ( bushings shot). I am replacing those next week. I can wiggle the wheel. I have not read anywhere about that leading to the vibration sound I’m getting though.
I am curious on your thoughts about the vibration. Here is the break down. I drive the same 165 mile round trip daily so I have plenty of time to listen to it. The vibration noise begins at low speeds and is consistent (mechanically consistent) sound getting faster with driving speed. It really is sounding like an out of balance wheel but I’m getting no real vibration feeling in the steering wheel or floor. No clunking or other sounds. Just the very constant vibration sound...sort of to the effect of a clothes washer on spin that is alittle off balance. The only way to silence it ( for a second) is going over a quick road drop, like a smooth dip in the road. I’ve done the sharp turns to each side but no change there.
Sorry for the long winded description here, but it really is getting me stumped. Thank you in advance for any input on this.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I just pulled the rear wheel and unbolted the hub side of the upper control arm. Visually the bushing looks good and the frame side feels good and intact. But just wondering if this play is normal. (I videoed it but can’t figure out how to post it) but the play is a wobble from the shaft on its axis. Not back and forth just kind of like when you poke a pencil through a piece of paper and wiggle the pencil in circles. I made stills from the video to try and show the back and forth. It does is 360 degrees.
Also. Wheel was 1/2oz out of balance. Static balance. That may help.
 

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..... But just wondering if this play is normal. (I videoed it but can’t figure out how to post it) but the play is a wobble from the shaft on its axis. Not back and forth just kind of like when you poke a pencil through a piece of paper and wiggle the pencil in circles. I made stills from the video to try and show the back and forth. It does is 360 degrees.
Sounds normal. What it shouldn't be is loose.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Ya, the complete bushing is in there, not moving and actually doesn’t look like it deteriorating at all. The “spacer” piece just has easy play. I thought it would be a little stiffer. I’ve never worked with that part before.
 

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When you say spacer, I'm thinking you mean the part where the bolt goes through.

I call it a swivel ball joint, and it should move freely and smoothly but not rattle loosely.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks Sandstone! That is what I’m trying to describe. It swivels easily and smooth but no other play.
On the drive in this am I really gave a hard listen , also recorded some sounds. (I’ll work on getting those posted) I’m starting to think it’s not the rear upper control arm. I think I’ve narrowed the sound to the front driver side. Which is the replaced CV shaft. I’m hoping that is NOT the issue. But on that I would imagine I would get different sounds between cornering and straight. In the past I had trouble with sticking brake caliper pins. The rotors would get super hot due to the constant harder then normal friction, more then just from braking. Going to pull the front wheel, recheck the balance and also check the rotorto see if it warped at all.
this noise has become my nemesis!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Here are a couple videos the bushing pivot and the wheel(?) sound at around 60mph.
 

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Next time you have the swivel ball end off, if you can pull back the rubber seal and squirt some grease into it (pics below)
Will help keep it from creaking when going over bumps. Lower control arms and toe links have them too.

On the vibrating noise, check the u-joint in the drive shaft.

The inner CV joint can make a sound like that too, or possibly the axle has come un-seated from the trans and needs popped back in.
If you're brave, try running it while on jack stands (all wheels off the ground), or get a shop to run it while on the lift. That might help you find it.


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92412

92413
 

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Discussion Starter #11
thanks again Sandstone.thanks for the greasing info on the swivels.
I’ve checked the inner and outer on both fronts and rears but will check them again. The front driver side I replaced do to the inner wobbling on the shaft going into the transmission. I’ll recheck that it is seated. On that one , the outer side has a tiny bit of play, but it seems good. Also I will definitely check the drive shaft u joints. I’m attaching a video of the rear differential. I noticed a lot of play, but do not know if this is normal...it would make since that the driveshaft could cause the constant noise. And going to check rotors and wheel balance again while I’m at it. Other then the noise , it rides smooth and other then speed , the noise stays constant.
 

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Yes, the diff mounting is squishy like that to dampen vibration.

On another note, looks like you have a lot of rust on that bracket. If the crossmembers are rusty like that I'd start looking into treating them with something like Fluid Film etc. before it goes too far.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Once again. Thanks for the quick help Sandstone. My boss swears by Fluid Film. We were talking about it the other day. I’ll definitely pick some up. THe back end components are definitely starting to get rust. Up front it’s looking better. I put a lot of miles on it ,165 a day , 5 days a week. New England driving. And trying to stay ahead of it. We bought it new in ‘12 and its been pretty dependable, although the CVT crapped out at 95,000. Other then that, just standard maintenance. So I’m trying to run it as long as possible. I’ve read on here about guys passing 250,000. I’d be very happy with that. Thanks again. I’ll add to the post when I get a chance to get under it again and check out your suggestions.
 

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Update. Didn’t get much of a chance to get into my problem as I hoped. But I did discover the brake pin bushings were shot. Which was making a noticeable hesitation at times after stopping and take off. Cleared that up and hoped it was part of the noise but it was not. I still have to pull the rotors and check them for any warpage. I’m still holding out hope that it is not the cv, I had replaced it last February. (Also looked that post over and my symptoms are not really the same) also. I’m noticing at slow speeds -30mph I’m getting the rub,knock sound still but at such a slow rhythm that I’d swear the wheel was warped. ( or the rotors) But I get no odd wheel bump feeling at higher speeds. Also at times the sound is coming from the rear and at greater speeds the front driver side. Going to thoroughly check the drive shaft this afternoon to see if that has any looseness to it.
One other thing, this am on brand new smooth pavement I brought it up to 80mph and did start to get a noticeable shake/vibration though the floor and steering ( not a Back and forth shimmy on the steering but the bumps). Let off back to 70 and it smoothed out with just the same noise present.
if it wasn’t for my OCD on wanting to solve the problem I would just turn up the radio because other then at 80 , which I hardly ever need to go, the car rides smooth.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Update. @Sandstone been a few weeks without a chance to get back into the noise search, but this morning I had time. I think you were right, back in the beginning of this post! I found a small tear in the inner (translation side) boot on the cv. On the outter ripple edge. (See pic). Also found the grease spray trail that perfectly lines up with it. ALSO, I think that would explain the constant noise rather then just when baring right , like my old cv had ( I just inspected that one and found a small tear right at the clamp on the wheel end).
So I think it explains the low speed metal rubbing sound and the higher speed consistent noise. It’s been slowly loosing the grease.
It has lifetime warranty ( I replaced last February) , so next weekend...or possibly tomorrow, that will get swapped out. I’ll post again after with results.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
If it's the inner joint you can try checking it for excessive play:
I went ahead and just replaced it. I have a lifetime warranty on the cv so I figured why not..especially with the small hole in the boot.
BUT, now I’m thinking I have a failing front bearing instead. Noise it’s still there. And I’m getting a sweet spot where it gets a little quiet at around 65mph and when the car “lightens” up on a dip in the road. Regardless, I’m glad I caught the tear in the boot early. I am kicking myself for not checking the beating while the shaft was out though, but I guess I have a project for this weekend now :).
the search continues.
 
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