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Discussion Starter #1
My Mom's 2017 Pat started bucking strangely on the 2nd-3rd gear shift(Hyundai/KIA 6-A Trans). Since it is under warranty for the powertrain warranty (only 48K Miles), I was going to take it in to the Dealer. But first, knowing the H/K 6-A is a really strong Transmission(unlike the CVT), I did some research on the Internet. There are lots of people with the same problem and it is not the Trans, it is prematurely failing Spark Plugs. I changed the Plugs, and sure enough that seems to be it. This happens on many 2.4 Engines(Patriot, Compass, Avenger, 200, et al). It sure felt like the Transmission(like it was low on Fluid), but this seems to have solved it. Much faster too. Google it.
 

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Uh, yeah, a lot of problems get blamed on the transmission that were in reality caused by the spark plugs. That may be part of the reason the CVT has a bad reputation. The other reason is that the Patriot owners manual implies the fluid is good to100,000+ which it is not.

To say the plugs failed prematurely isn't entirely accurate. Most cars today are running 100,000 miles plugs, but not our Patriots. Patriot plugs are only good for 30,000 in the first place, so 40,000+ is really postmature. The good news is that for $20 (including something to drink) plugs are an easy DIY job.

Now before you complain about 30,000 miles being short, for the first dozen of my driving years, 10,000 mile plugs were the rule.
 

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With all the computer control on today's engines, I am not surprised that bad plugs could create bad-transmission-like symptoms.

About 12 years ago I had my 4 speed Caravan transmission into the repair shop numerous times for "slipping". Frustrated, the shop owner finally spent an hour with me driving around while observing his scan tool live data. The problem turned out to be a bad $30 throttle position sensor that resulted in erroneous data sent to the tranny. Another time, intermittent spark plug wire mis-fires also resulted in transmission problem type symptoms.

Excellent thread reminding us not to make assumptions.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Uh, yeah, a lot of problems get blamed on the transmission that were in reality caused by the spark plugs. That may be part of the reason the CVT has a bad reputation. The other reason is that the Patriot owners manual implies the fluid is good to100,000+ which it is not.

To say the plugs failed prematurely isn't entirely accurate. Most cars today are running 100,000 miles plugs, but not our Patriots. Patriot plugs are only good for 30,000 in the first place, so 40,000+ is really postmature. The good news is that for $20 (including something to drink) plugs are an easy DIY job.

Now before you complain about 30,000 miles being short, for the first dozen of my driving years, 10,000 mile plugs were the rule.
My Grandfather worked for Chrysler, so we are car guys, and absolutely follow the Maintenance schedule. We decided to change the CVT fluid(at dealer)(2009 Patriot) at 60K miles, and 120K miles(to be safe and anal). At 130K miles the CVT trans started to whine. At 155K miles we took it to the dealer for Lifetime Powertrain warranty coverage. Somehow the dealer did not have records of the Inspection, so FCA denied coverage. But by this time, we had bought a new 2017 Patriot with the 6A. We had the CVT Trans replaced($$$), even though it worked fine(just whined). Much to my chagrin, there is a youtube video showing that there is a second trans filter in the fluid cooler that no one knows about. When you replace it, the whine goes away, with alot of other problems. I don't think the dealers replaced those(I don't think they even knew about it, nor anyone else). Spread the word that the second filter exhists, and needs to be replaced when the bottom filter is replaced)(CVT).
 

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My Grandfather worked for Chrysler, so we are car guys, and absolutely follow the Maintenance schedule. We decided to change the CVT fluid(at dealer)(2009 Patriot) at 60K miles, and 120K miles(to be safe and anal). At 130K miles the CVT trans started to whine. At 155K miles we took it to the dealer for Lifetime Powertrain warranty coverage. Somehow the dealer did not have records of the Inspection, so FCA denied coverage. But by this time, we had bought a new 2017 Patriot with the 6A. We had the CVT Trans replaced($$$), even though it worked fine(just whined). Much to my chagrin, there is a youtube video showing that there is a second trans filter in the fluid cooler that no one knows about. When you replace it, the whine goes away, with alot of other problems. I don't think the dealers replaced those(I don't think they even knew about it, nor anyone else). Spread the word that the second filter exhists, and needs to be replaced when the bottom filter is replaced)(CVT).
That there are two tranny filters is pretty well known on this site, but that is good advice. I doubt most Patriot owners know that. The more we talk about it the more likely people are to see it.

Actually there are several things about Patriots that need publicity.
  • There are two CVT filters
  • CVT fluid & filters should be changed at least every 50,000 miles
  • There are two thermostats
  • Plugs are only 30,000 mile items
Can you think of any more?
 

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How about valve lash adjustments at every spark plug change... :)
If that much maintenance is required these days, then why buy a new vehicle ever? I'm old, downright ancient. I have NEVER experienced the level of issues being experienced with vehicles today. I always wanted a Jeep. I will admit that if I saw this forum before I bought mine I would have rethought my decision.
 

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If that much maintenance is required these days, then why buy a new vehicle ever? I'm old, downright ancient. I have NEVER experienced the level of issues being experienced with vehicles today. I always wanted a Jeep. I will admit that if I saw this forum before I bought mine I would have rethought my decision.
Complexity is the enemy of reliability. The more gadgets there are on a vehicle, the more things there are to go wrong with it. A good example are heater controls being run through the radio, and why does the radio have a screen? See what I mean?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I did not know there are two thermostats! My Honda Civic had a two-stage thermostat, one stage failed-open. It did not overheat, but when you got going fast and it was cold out, the heat stopped.
Other helpful pointers I have experienced on the Patriot: (1) Replace brake slider guides every time you do brakes(or you will get strange/insane rattles). (2) See my "Penultimate" post here on the Sunroof leaks(and a solution).(3) Replace entire Coil-over unit when you do rear struts(springs are super weak).(4). Doing fast U-turns on a full fuel tank will cause fuel to get sucked into the EVAP system throwing a code(mine went away). (5). The Variable Valve Timing system is sensitive to Oil quality, from day one. Junk-in, Junk-out. You will feel it when you drive. (6).The Exhaust Manifold/Catalytic Converter Combination Unit(Mani-Verter)(4WD) is weak and fails prematurely(expensive)(there is a EPA recall for some model years). There is "allegedly" a "Work-Around" for this and the error code it causes on the Internet. (7). When the front lower control arm ball-joints/pivots fail, use "Moog" brand replacements with grease-able zerk fittings. Use Mystic J-T6 grease to delay future replacement as long as possible. Also, get grease-able anti-sway-bar links with zerk fittings and use Mystic J-T6 on those also.
P.S., I am getting a little rear suspension rattle on one side. Does anyone know which rear Cotnrol-Arm Link bushing/Isolaters go first? There is always one control arm that is usually the problem, I was hoping not to do all of the links.
 

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I did not know there are two thermostats! My Honda Civic had a two-stage thermostat, one stage failed-open. It did not overheat, but when you got going fast and it was cold out, the heat stopped.
Other helpful pointers I have experienced on the Patriot: (1) Replace brake slider guides every time you do brakes(or you will get strange/insane rattles). (2) See my "Penultimate" post here on the Sunroof leaks(and a solution).(3) Replace entire Coil-over unit when you do rear struts(springs are super weak).(4). Doing fast U-turns on a full fuel tank will cause fuel to get sucked into the EVAP system throwing a code(mine went away). (5). The Variable Valve Timing system is sensitive to Oil quality, from day one. Junk-in, Junk-out. You will feel it when you drive. (6).The Exhaust Manifold/Catalytic Converter Combination Unit(Mani-Verter)(4WD) is weak and fails prematurely(expensive)(there is a EPA recall for some model years). There is "allegedly" a "Work-Around" for this and the error code it causes on the Internet. (7). When the front lower control arm ball-joints/pivots fail, use "Moog" brand replacements with grease-able zerk fittings. Use Mystic J-T6 grease to delay future replacement as long as possible. Also, get grease-able anti-sway-bar links with zerk fittings and use Mystic J-T6 on those also.
P.S., I am getting a little rear suspension rattle on one side. Does anyone know which rear Cotnrol-Arm Link bushing/Isolaters go first? There is always one control arm that is usually the problem, I was hoping not to do all of the links.
#4 is interesting. I've seen a few threads on here about Patriots stalling after a fill-up. I wonder if they got it super-full then made a hard turn out of the station or even around the pumps and that was enough to cause a problem.

Re: #6, my 2008 Patriot went to 270,000 on the original catcon and as far as I know it's still going. I chatted with its present owner tonight -- he's had it for two years since and hasn't had any problems either. I imagine he's around 300,000 by now.

Re: #2, the leaking sunroofs were quite a problem in the early years. The solution(s) got posted and I haven't heard much about leakers since.

Agreed, greaseable anything is always better than the factory-sealed units, but of course they require greasing and LOF these days means "change the oil & filter," and not much else. LOF used to mean grease a dozen fittings along with changing the oil.

Heck, one of my Jeeps (I forget which one but probably made in the AMC years) even had zerk fittings on the driveshaft for the universals. Those were made back when people actually took care of their cars, often themselves. My Dad alternated between having a station do the LOF and doing it himself. He doubted the station would check for fittings as carefully as he did.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
#4 is interesting. I've seen a few threads on here about Patriots stalling after a fill-up. I wonder if they got it super-full then made a hard turn out of the station or even around the pumps and that was enough to cause a problem.

Re: #6, my 2008 Patriot went to 270,000 on the original catcon and as far as I know it's still going. I chatted with its present owner tonight -- he's had it for two years since and hasn't had any problems either. I imagine he's around 300,000 by now.

Re: #2, the leaking sunroofs were quite a problem in the early years. The solution(s) got posted and I haven't heard much about leakers since.

Agreed, greaseable anything is always better than the factory-sealed units, but of course they require greasing and LOF these days means "change the oil & filter," and not much else. LOF used to mean grease a dozen fittings along with changing the oil.

Heck, one of my Jeeps (I forget which one but probably made in the AMC years) even had zerk fittings on the driveshaft for the universals. Those were made back when people actually took care of their cars, often themselves. My Dad alternated between having a station do the LOF and doing it himself. He doubted the station would check for fittings as carefully as he did.
They have this new super grease; called Mystic JT-6. It is made of mostly Calcium, instead of Petroleum. It does not wick moisture, and bacteria does not eat it. It has excellent shock absorbance(great for ball-joints, and wheel bearings). All the NASCAR racers use it now. It was called Citgo JT-6, but since Commie Hugo Chavez owned Citgo, they changed the name. It is excellent in marginally engineered applications(Jeet Patriot Ball Joints/ steep angle Control Arms). The only downside is you have to remove all prior grease(no Mixing).
 

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Complexity is the enemy of reliability. The more gadgets there are on a vehicle, the more things there are to go wrong with it. A good example are heater controls being run through the radio, and why does the radio have a screen? See what I mean?
One of the reasons why I held on to my 02 WJ for 270k+ miles. As for lash adjustments that was for engines that have solid tappets.
 

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One of the reasons why I held on to my 02 WJ for 270k+ miles. As for lash adjustments that was for engines that have solid tappets.
Very nice accomplishment getting 270,000 out of anything these days. (y)

My Dad was Chevy mechanic back in the early 1950s. He was a fan of hydraulic lifters. Most of what I learned about cars, including buying them, was done on his advice. Valve lash adjustment was not part of our vocabulary.
 

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Very nice accomplishment getting 270,000 out of anything these days. (y)

My Dad was Chevy mechanic back in the early 1950s. He was a fan of hydraulic lifters. Most of what I learned about cars, including buying them, was done on his advice. Valve lash adjustment was not part of our vocabulary.
Thanks. Took a lot of work (and money) to keep it going. It just got too expensive for me to keep it on the road. I did the majority of the work myself but I'm getting too old to lie on cold concrete.

The Old Man was a Chief Engineer on a US Liberty Ship during WWII. He was also a hot rodder (and a cop) after the war. He taught me all the old school hot rodding tricks since I was bitten by the bug. He had no idea what he unleashed on the roads of NJ.. lol..

Just Empty Every Pocket

Sorry for the thread hijack....
 

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My Mom's 2017 Pat started bucking strangely on the 2nd-3rd gear shift(Hyundai/KIA 6-A Trans). Since it is under warranty for the powertrain warranty (only 48K Miles), I was going to take it in to the Dealer. But first, knowing the H/K 6-A is a really strong Transmission(unlike the CVT), I did some research on the Internet. There are lots of people with the same problem and it is not the Trans, it is prematurely failing Spark Plugs. I changed the Plugs, and sure enough that seems to be it. This happens on many 2.4 Engines(Patriot, Compass, Avenger, 200, et al). It sure felt like the Transmission(like it was low on Fluid), but this seems to have solved it. Much faster too. Google it.
Have a 2011 and same thing changed the plugs problem solved
 

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That there are two tranny filters is pretty well known on this site, but that is good advice. I doubt most Patriot owners know that. The more we talk about it the more likely people are to see it.

Actually there are several things about Patriots that need publicity.
  • There are two CVT filters
  • CVT fluid & filters should be changed at least every 50,000 miles
  • There are two thermostats
  • Plugs are only 30,000 mile items
Can you think of any more?
Any recommendations on plug brand and type? I am at 26k on my 2016 2.4L pat.
 

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The Old Man was a Chief Engineer on a US Liberty Ship during WWII.
My Dad ran the engines on a Destroyer Escort during the war. I know they escorted a couple convoys to North Africa. Those convoys were full of Liberty Ships.
Sorry for the thread hijack....
Hey, we're here for fun, too. Besides, a lot of those Liberty Ships were built by Kaiser who would later own Jeep, so we're not totally off topic. ;)
 
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