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2007 Jeep Patriot, Daimler Ferret Mk 1/2, M151A2, 1954 Austin Champ, 2013 Mazda BT50
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When I replaced the 2.4l Petrol Engine in my 2008 Jeep Patriot, the replacement had a plug in place of the #2 Engine Coolant Sensor. The engine obviously came from a post 2011 car when only one Engine Coolant Sensor was needed. Stupidly I installed it as is and, of course, it threw up an error code for the missing sensor.
I pulled off the inlet manifold, removed the plug, installed a sensor and connected it to the loom. I then reinstalled the inlet manifold. That is a difficult job and I had to redo it as the wiring loom was caught in the wrong position.
After finishing the job I now had two error codes: one for the #2 Engine Coolant Sensor and one for the Camshaft Position Sensor. I checked and both are installed and connected so I suspect that maybe the wiring was damaged when I reinstalled the inlet manifold. Do those two sensors have a common connection? Does anyone have a copy of the wiring diagram for them so i can do some continuity testing?
 

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2007 Jeep Patriot, Daimler Ferret Mk 1/2, M151A2, 1954 Austin Champ, 2013 Mazda BT50
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56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks. I will try to trace that tomorrow or Saturday and, hopefully, that will be the last issue stopping the replacement engine starting!
 

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2007 Jeep Patriot, Daimler Ferret Mk 1/2, M151A2, 1954 Austin Champ, 2013 Mazda BT50
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56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well I am totally confused now. With my OBD2 reader I was getting three error codes: P0123, P2185, P0335. I disconnected the air intake sensor and then got P0113 as well. After reconnecting the air intake sensor, and even though the #2 Engine Coolant Sensor had been replaced I sill got all four error codes using my Scanguide reader. I tried various key, etc sequences to no avail. I then closed the bonnet and all doors and I now get no error codes! The engine still does not start and the engine symbol flashes after cranking a while but I put this down to the fact that the throttle body wiring is disconnected. Reason for this is that the lock on the plug is broken and I will replace it with another plug.

I am hoping that once I replace the plug I will have a running vehicle... Maybe two years working on this will finally result in a useable car 🤨
 

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2007 Jeep Patriot, Daimler Ferret Mk 1/2, M151A2, 1954 Austin Champ, 2013 Mazda BT50
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56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So here is the problem. One of the codes is definitely not correct: as a test I unplugged the air intake sensor and got a P0113. I then plugged it back in and still got that error code. With the ScanGauge II I cleared the codes and then read them again - P0113 was still there. I went throught this procedure multiple times with the same result. I then bought another OBD II reader but still had the same result. It seems that even though the readers claim to have cleared the codes they have not actually done so (even though the car signal dings and I can hear what sound like the fuel pump run as a reaction to the code clearance).
Is there a reason for this? Does the 2018 Jeep Patriot export model (Australian version) need the Jeep proprietary equipment to clear codes or is there something else I could be doing? Without the codes being cleared, I cannot get the car to start so I am unable to take it to a dealer (except on a tilt tray which may have to be the answer).
 

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2007 Jeep Patriot, Daimler Ferret Mk 1/2, M151A2, 1954 Austin Champ, 2013 Mazda BT50
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56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Also, when I do the ign on/acc/on/acc/on procedure the odometer shows NO CODES and then goes to done :mad: And I have done the battery cable disconnect procdure.
 

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My scan tool will only clear codes with the key on but engine off. Regardless, the intake air temperature sensor wouldn't prevent starting the vehicle. The pcm can run the engine without it. Is it cranking but not starting?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the reply Todd. The intake air temp sensor is one of four that are reported but I know that is incorrect, which is why I mentioned it specifically. The othere are the #2 engine coolant sensor, the crankshaft position sensor and the throttle pedal position sensor. I figure that at least the crankshaft position sensor could stop it starting.
It cranks OK but no indication it is attempting to fire on any cylinder. It seems a long shot but I will try to replace the spark plugs from the new engine with those from the original engine in case that is the cause...
 

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Ah, ok. Neither temp sensor would prevent starting though without coolant temp it will run very rich, especially if combined without air temp. When my crank sensor went, it would still start, but ran horrible and stalled alot. With so many sensors out though, who knows. I would check the plugs to see if they are fuel fouled, while you have a coil and plug out plug it all back together and ground the spark plug and check for spark. It could be a bad common ground for all of them too, their all in the same area harness wise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for that info Todd. It is encouraging that maybe the sensor issues are not the reason for failed starting so i can explore other options starting with plugs. Appreciate the feedback.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Some progress today. I changed the spark plugs but that made no difference. I then replaced the fuel rail and injectors with those from the original engine which made no difference. BUT when I cranked the engine a bit longer I hears/felt a slight kick. Doing this a couple of times the engine fired and ran for a few revs then died. This was not repeatable but the slight kick still happened after ranking for a while. I believe fuel is being pumped OK as I hear what I think is the fuel pump when ignition is turned on and there is fuel in the line and rail when I disconnect the rail. Not sure what this is telling me. I notice that there appears to be some fine oil vapour coming into the fuel filter from the engine after it has been cranking a while.
Maybe the error code P0123 Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor “A” Circuit High is the clue?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Some progress today. I changed the spark plugs but that made no difference. I then replaced the fuel rail and injectors with those from the original engine which made no difference. BUT when I cranked the engine a bit longer I hears/felt a slight kick. Doing this a couple of times the engine fired and ran for a few revs then died. This was not repeatable but the slight kick still happened after ranking for a while. I believe fuel is being pumped OK as I hear what I think is the fuel pump when ignition is turned on and there is fuel in the line and rail when I disconnect the rail. Not sure what this is telling me. I notice that there appears to be some fine oil vapour coming into the fuel filter from the engine after it has been cranking a while.
Maybe the P0123 error code fis the clue?
 

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If you suspect fuel pressure, one of the things you can try is to cycle the key on and off several times without starting, pausing in the on position for a few seconds to allow the fuel pump to run each time. If the pump or regulator are bad, this will help raise pressure enough to see if it starts and runs longer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Tried that thanks Todd but no joy. I will mull it over for a few days and if I can't come up with something with then take it to a dealer.
 

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Fuel, spark and air are needed and you can test all three at home. Pull a coil, plug the harness back in and put one of your spare plugs into it. Wrap some bare wire around the plug threads and ground it. Have an assistant crank the engine and check for a steady spark. Put the coil back in. Disconnect and remove the air pipe from the air cleaner to the throttle body. When the ignition turns on you should see the throttle blade move as the system tests it, but it should be open enough to idle. Regardless have the assistant press and release the pedal and confirm movement. With ignition off, reach down and manually push ope the throttle blade to confirm it's not jammed closed. Finally spray some gas, starting fluid or even brake clean in the intake to test fuel source.
 

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2007 Jeep Patriot, Daimler Ferret Mk 1/2, M151A2, 1954 Austin Champ, 2013 Mazda BT50
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56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yesterday I noticed that if I cranked for a while it did kick but not run. Today I attached one of the coil input leads to a spare coil and had it connected to a test lamp then earth. I was able to see the coil did output voltage for the spark plug that coincided with the engine kicking. I also was able to hear the fuel injectors clicking. So, it is close to operational but not quite there. I am hoping that you, Todd, or someone else may have an idea what it happening.
I have uploaded a video to Youtube to make it clearer what is going on...
 

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2007 Jeep Patriot, Daimler Ferret Mk 1/2, M151A2, 1954 Austin Champ, 2013 Mazda BT50
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56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Yesterday I noticed that if I cranked for a while it did kick but not run. Today I attached one of the coil input leads to a spare coil and had it connected to a test lamp then earth. I was able to see the coil did output voltage for the spark plug that coincided with the engine kicking. I also was able to hear the fuel injectors clicking. So, it is close to operational but not quite there. I am hoping that you, Todd, or someone else may have an idea what it happening.
I have uploaded a video to make it clearer what is going on...
 

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It sounds very unevenly cranking. Have you done a compression check? I would definitely try spraying some starter fluid in the intake and see if it kicks better or even runs briefly.
 

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Fuel, spark and air are needed and you can test all three at home.
From my small engine class decades ago, also required is compression and timing, so you may be on to something todde702.

Going back to the original post, this is a used engine (he thinks post 2011) installed in a 2008 Patriot. Could it simply be that the original TIPM is not synced up to this engine?
 

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The TIPM is just a computer controlled fuse box and the pcm runs the engine. Granted if the TIPM isn't sending power to the right modules you could have starting issues, but it's getting spark and some fuel so the pcm is powered and trying to start the engine. Compression would be a concern though usually on a multi cylinder engine, only one or two holes go bad leaving a rough running engine on the remaining good cylinders. Timing is also important but when that is the only problem, you get an idea of bad timing by misfires out the intake or exhaust.
 
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