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Any updates from that email?
 

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Hi Tyler, long time no talk. Well, have we thought of using a different rear end. Maybe one from a new Jeep Cherokee or Grand Cherokee? With the trailhawk or what it is called might work. I was looking at it and thinking if it could be modified to work. Then we could have a locking diff and the ability of a larger axle in the rear. No guarantee this would work at all, but just a thought I been having. What do you think?
 

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Fiat Cherokar
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Discussion Starter · #144 ·
Hi Tyler, long time no talk. Well, have we thought of using a different rear end. Maybe one from a new Jeep Cherokee or Grand Cherokee? With the trailhawk or what it is called might work. I was looking at it and thinking if it could be modified to work. Then we could have a locking diff and the ability of a larger axle in the rear. No guarantee this would work at all, but just a thought I been having. What do you think?
a different differential might work, but making it fit is another issue, I've looked quite a lot at the diff in my wife's Cherokee and it is a lot larger, something that would be hard to accommodate. The other issue is with a different diff,

1. need a difference driveshaft
2. Our awd system is actually controlled and engaged in the rear diff so it might not even work at all.
 

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Well, I just got my Pat, and I have other Jeeps that are my off-road toys. However, I think that the trajectory of this thread was off-vector from the start. I would put forth that the 4wd system (including the rear differential) in our 4x4 MKs is more akin to a UTV than a traditional 4x4 SUV/truck. If I were looking to adapt a locking differential into the the RDU of my Pat, I'd see if a UTV locker was dimensionally similar enough to be modified to work. The usual automotive locker manufacturers would be hard pressed to make a true locker for such a tiny differential, it would open up all kinds of liability due the inevitable damage to peripheral components. UTV differentials are tiny like ours, have modular aluminum housings like ours, and utilize half shafts like ours. They have far more in common than anything from Dana, AAM or Sterling.

This is a locking differential from a Polaris Ranger 900 crew. Appears more similar in size than anything from ARB or Eaton, but I have no idea how close it is.
 

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Fiat Cherokar
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Discussion Starter · #149 ·
The company was going to make a locker, they just decided to go MIA when I had everything in order (measurements ect).

Either way your ideas are solid but after thinking this over more (I also don't have my Compass anymore)

The real world gains for this wouldn't be worth the hassle.

MK's lack low range and while there would be a very select few situations where you would see an improvement, the fact there is no low range gearing really kills its ability offroad. 99.9% of people would not put their MK in a situation where having a locking differential would give them any kind of meaningful improvement.

I have a Cherokee Trailhawk, I RARELY ever use the locker, but I used the low range all the time, everything is in the gearing. With its 48:1 crawl ratio and great brake based traction control (Brake Lock differential) it can go almost anywhere.

My cherokee can also bog down exactly like my Compass and Patriot did, when I don't use low range again its all in the gearing.

The MK platform was fun for me to play with for 8 years but ultimately I had to move on because I needed more capability, once you have a vehicle with proper low range its very hard to even look at a platform like the MK's except if you are doing light offroading and nothing too technical.

If someone wants to continue on this project that would be great.

I think its mentioned earlier, but the closest diff I could find size wise to the MK's was a Dana 28
 

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Tyler, I'm in 99% agreement with you, and I also love my KLTH for my offroad adventures.:grin2:

^^^Imogene Pass a few weeks after we bought it^^^

That 1% is just my own belief that REAL Jeeps are meant to be modified, but that's also with qualification. I feel like Jeep lost the privilege to manufacture non 4x4s when they split off AMG (the gov't arm of the company) prior to acquisition by Chrysler. Purpose built mail carriers and such were alright, but Jeep is supposed to be synonymous with off road capability. Even the Grand Wagoneers were exceptionally good off road compared to the offerings of the Big Three.

So, ignoring all the 2x4 Jeeps that have been made over the years, I look at the XJ as the closest comparison. When it debuted, it was regarded as an affront to all things Jeep. The uni-frame was a joke, the link suspension was unliftable, the axles were toothpicks and the biggest available engine was smaller than the SMALLEST engine available in it's predecessor. It was a failure ...until it wasn't.:wink2:

These Patriots are rediculously prolific, so I'm hopeful they'll see a similar future. I didn't realize it until I started driving one, but they are all over the place (at least in Denver). RRO started popping out hocky pucks for a 2" lift and that's an alright start, but the Patriot will become a "real Jeep" once owners start getting creative. Figuring out a rear locker and disabling the traction control so it doesn't stall from lack of wheel horsepower when a tire gets in the air will be a HUGE step in that direction.

Again, that's just 1%, the other 99% of my thinking and effort will just take the Trailhawk when we head to the boonies.:smile2:
 

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Tyler, I'm in 99% agreement with you, and I also love my KLTH for my offroad adventures.:grin2:

^^^Imogene Pass a few weeks after we bought it^^^

That 1% is just my own belief that REAL Jeeps are meant to be modified, but that's also with qualification. I feel like Jeep lost the privilege to manufacture non 4x4s when they split off AMG (the gov't arm of the company) prior to acquisition by Chrysler. Purpose built mail carriers and such were alright, but Jeep is supposed to be synonymous with off road capability. Even the Grand Wagoneers were exceptionally good off road compared to the offerings of the Big Three.

So, ignoring all the 2x4 Jeeps that have been made over the years, I look at the XJ as the closest comparison. When it debuted, it was regarded as an affront to all things Jeep. The uni-frame was a joke, the link suspension was unliftable, the axles were toothpicks and the biggest available engine was smaller than the SMALLEST engine available in it's predecessor. It was a failure ...until it wasn't.:wink2:

These Patriots are rediculously prolific, so I'm hopeful they'll see a similar future. I didn't realize it until I started driving one, but they are all over the place (at least in Denver). RRO started popping out hocky pucks for a 2" lift and that's an alright start, but the Patriot will become a "real Jeep" once owners start getting creative. Figuring out a rear locker and disabling the traction control so it doesn't stall from lack of wheel horsepower when a tire gets in the air will be a HUGE step in that direction.

Again, that's just 1%, the other 99% of my thinking and effort will just take the Trailhawk when we head to the boonies.:smile2:
The patriot I don't think will ever compete off road with the XJ or even have nearly as many mods. But you never know, there are less and less vehicles that can go off road each year. No more xterra, no more FJ, no more off road explorer. It will be interesting in the future when more vehicles have electric engines in them. You won't need a transfer case with those.
 

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The patriot I don't think will ever compete off road with the XJ or even have nearly as many mods. But you never know, there are less and less vehicles that can go off road each year. No more xterra, no more FJ, no more off road explorer. It will be interesting in the future when more vehicles have electric engines in them. You won't need a transfer case with those.
I totally see what you're saying and I'll even take it a step further. Folks today are less inclined to MAKE vehicles more off-road capable. If it's not bolt on bull#$^$ that comes with a skull or spider sticker, they aren't interested. I'm OK with the real "off road" market being distilled down to the Wrangler and 4Runner. Narrowing the selection increases competition in the aftermarket. I got my Moab yah-yahs out of my system decades ago and as much as I enjoy a good obstacle, I don't like smashing up my cars anymore. 0:)

I do think that the activity of 4wheeling is going the route of UTVs though, and that's why I think the MK has a future. It's more UTV-ish than any other compact highway legal crossover.:nerd:

EDIT>>> To include it's progeny, the Renegade, as also being UTV-ish.
 

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Tyler, I'm in 99% agreement with you, and I also love my KLTH for my offroad adventures.:grin2:

^^^Imogene Pass a few weeks after we bought it^^^

That 1% is just my own belief that REAL Jeeps are meant to be modified, but that's also with qualification. I feel like Jeep lost the privilege to manufacture non 4x4s when they split off AMG (the gov't arm of the company) prior to acquisition by Chrysler. Purpose built mail carriers and such were alright, but Jeep is supposed to be synonymous with off road capability. Even the Grand Wagoneers were exceptionally good off road compared to the offerings of the Big Three.

So, ignoring all the 2x4 Jeeps that have been made over the years, I look at the XJ as the closest comparison. When it debuted, it was regarded as an affront to all things Jeep. The uni-frame was a joke, the link suspension was unliftable, the axles were toothpicks and the biggest available engine was smaller than the SMALLEST engine available in it's predecessor. It was a failure ...until it wasn't.:wink2:

These Patriots are rediculously prolific, so I'm hopeful they'll see a similar future. I didn't realize it until I started driving one, but they are all over the place (at least in Denver). RRO started popping out hocky pucks for a 2" lift and that's an alright start, but the Patriot will become a "real Jeep" once owners start getting creative. Figuring out a rear locker and disabling the traction control so it doesn't stall from lack of wheel horsepower when a tire gets in the air will be a HUGE step in that direction.

Again, that's just 1%, the other 99% of my thinking and effort will just take the Trailhawk when we head to the boonies.:smile2:
I've mirrored this sentiment in a few places. Patriot owners aren't generally (at least not yet) at a point where they are willing to try something nobody has ever tried before. I think this is for a couple reasons

1) For most people it's their daily driver. Serious off roading or modding to a daily SUCKS and takes a toll on your spirit and wallet.

2) The Patriot is a "budget" vehicle so most people who bought it seem to be relatively cheap/frugal compared to the idiots who buy 50k Wranglers and slap on every pre-made mod they can buy (let's ignore the fact that most of these people can't afford that lifestyle...they just love living on credit)

3) The vehicle is still in it's "infancy" but is getting closer to maturing. What I mean by this is that we still have a lot of original owners out on the road, or second owners (like myself) who still want to get life out of the vehicle. Most people don't have the heart to start ripping apart/welding vehicles until you're getting them cheap - Often it'll be teenagers/college kids who got them as hand me downs. The explosion in heavily modded XJs in my area at least is basically a bunch of 18 year olds who were handed their parents long time DD. Just today I was thinking of what it would take to create half doors for my Patriot. I'm obviously not going to dick around and do it to my daily but would I do it on an XJ I picked up for $1000 or less? Hell yeah.

We'll see some crazy (relative of course) stuff with Patriot as soon as people stop giving a ****. That's really what off road prowess and the look that comes with is all about. Not giving a ****, not doing the cookie cutter. Just doing what you want, however you want.
 

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Fiat Cherokar
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Discussion Starter · #154 ·
The problem is that it won't see the following of the XJ it simply doesn't have the backbone of a good offroad set up for capability. NO low range and that's where it ends.

You can add the biggest tires and highest lift you want, but when you bog down you just aren't going anywhere extreme.

Lack of lift height is another one, same thing with the KL platform to, its about 4" if you go with the 2 types of lift and stuff some big tires while cutting up pinch welds and fender wells. I had CV axles binding on my front control arms and CV axles destroying themselves only with the 2" Rocky Road lift the platform isn't robust enough for serious offroading.

Without a solid foundation it isn't going to get lots of support. What you see now is what you are probably only ever going to see

As an occasional offroader or maybe even an overland vehicle its a good choice but that's really about all.
 

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Alright, so this is probably gonna sound like the DUMBEST thing ever because I'm still relatively new to some of this stuff. BUT
You said that the spline count is 23 and the diff is a Chrysler 8.25? Right?
well, if I went up to a 27 spline on my Chrysler 8.25 diff, would that change anything?(They make lockers for a 27 spline C 8.25 diff) Or is a 27 spline Chrysler 8.25 diff something completely different from the MK's
Just a thought...
 

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Fiat Cherokar
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Discussion Starter · #156 ·
Alright, so this is probably gonna sound like the DUMBEST thing ever because I'm still relatively new to some of this stuff. BUT
You said that the spline count is 23 and the diff is a Chrysler 8.25? Right?
well, if I went up to a 27 spline on my Chrysler 8.25 diff, would that change anything?(They make lockers for a 27 spline C 8.25 diff) Or is a 27 spline Chrysler 8.25 diff something completely different from the MK's
Just a thought...


The diff is not even close to a Chrysler 8.25" go back a few pages and you can see pictures of it, i believe there is even a picture of it next to a Dana 44 and it looks super tiny
 
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The diff is not even close to a Chrysler 8.25" go back a few pages and you can see pictures of it, i believe there is even a picture of it next to a Dana 44 and it looks super tiny
saw that after I posted this. I also did some research and saw how my hypothesis was severely flawed. Thanks though
 
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