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Discussion Starter #1
Evening all! It has been a long time since I've posted on this forum. I may have discussed our old friend "covid" once, (god I hate that damn word) but boy times have changed....Lockdown madness, a US election fraught with controversy and now in the UK, our "fantastic" prime minister has decided to quite literally lockdown London and the South-East from today.....in effect, cancelling Christmas. Unbelievable. All I can say is, 2020 has been a horrendous year and I sure as hell hope 2021 is better!

Anyway, I hope you are all keeping well, and as I know most of you are across the pond in the grand old USA, ready to celebrate and enjoy a lockdown-free Christmas.

So on topic: For those of you who don't know me on here, I have a 4x4 2.2L pat running Michelin Latitude Cross tyres. I got these put on at 67k and my Jeep's now on 112k. After 45k, I still have about 4.5 mm left in these AT tyres (they're probably 60% on-road, 40% off) so the tread life has been fantastic. I could possibly get another 30K off them, but I am starting to think about trying a new set. It may be a waste of money, but if I can sell the four michelins for £100 or so, great. Make no mistake - these have been great tyres. Not much less economical than my previous michelin road tyres, quiet, handle well, and I have taken them off-road in thick mud many times, and never really got stuck. Sure, they slide a bit, but they are not mud tyres. I have only driven them a handful of times in snow, but they were pretty good too, with minimal slide, but nonetheless they are over half-life and I fancy a change.

I feel I've reached a point where I just need to get away, drive off somewhere and explore. Southern England is crap for snow these days, last winter we saw nothing, though 17-18 we had 2 or 3 big snowfalls (1 ft). But I'd just like to lose myself in Scotland or down in some remote forested European national park. If I'm gonna head somewhere snowy in the Jeep, I either need winter tyres, or some better ATs, which the latter I'd prefer anyway.

So, I've been looking at a few options.

1. Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs
2. BF Goodrich AT KO2s
3. General Grabber AT3s
4. Pirelli Scorpion AT +

The Duratracs were recommended to me by Sandstone on here I recall, and they were my first choice as a solid AT tyre with a great reputation in the mud and snow. I like the tread pattern too. Unfortunately however, these are basically impossible to get in a suitable size here in the UK - so they are now off the table.

Now everywhere I go in the UK, I see BFG AT KO2s. On Land Rovers, Jeeps, Toyotas, pickups etc. I also see the mud variant of them, grabber AT3s and the odd set of other off-road tyres. BFG KO2s generally seem to have great reviews, but they are so common I feel they're kinda boring now. Grabber AT3s have been recommended to me, but scanning reviews online, they appear to be less economical and worse on road than other ATs. They're also pretty popular (see boring.)

So with my disappointment that the Duratracs are off-limits, I randomly came across the Pirelli Scorpion AT+. These are a new, and uncommon AT tyre, from a brand that typically makes high-performance road tyres. But amazingly, these tyres tick every single box for me....

They're AT (roughly 60% off-road 40% on), available in my desired size, three-peak snowflake rated, have a cool aggressive tread pattern, and the reviews are phenomenal. Apparently they're also notably quiet, handle well on road and they're great in snow and not bad in mud either.

They come out on top here: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=ORAT&sortValue=1


And compared with my existing LT Cross, and BFG tyres - they rate better here too:


So, does anyone have any experience using any of the tyres mentioned, and if so, how do they rate? Particularly interested in the Pirellis.

And Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
 

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I’ve put on 225/65r17 Pirelli AT+ a month ago, after reading all the amazing reviews (as you mentioned).

i don’t have any experience with any of the other tyres you mentioned but the Pirelli‘s are amazing!!!

I’ll be taking them proper off road in about 2 weeks and I expect them to deliver, I have no reason to doubt the reviews after experiencing first hand how well they perform in city driving and freeway driving.

Bottom line... they’re great!
 

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Be wary of the KO2's, they're stupid heavy. I also hear bad things about how well the Grabbers work. I haven't heard anything bad about the Duratracs and I have no experience at all with the Scorpions.

I'd like to suggest also looking at WILDPEAK A/T3W TIRE | Falken Tire and GEOLANDAR® A/T G015 | Yokohama Tire , both are severe snow service rated. I have a buddy at work who swears by the Wildpeaks and I absolutely love my Geolandars, they're really sticky tires.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I’ve put on 225/65r17 Pirelli AT+ a month ago, after reading all the amazing reviews (as you mentioned).

i don’t have any experience with any of the other tyres you mentioned but the Pirelli‘s are amazing!!!

I’ll be taking them proper off road in about 2 weeks and I expect them to deliver, I have no reason to doubt the reviews after experiencing first hand how well they perform in city driving and freeway driving.

Bottom line... they’re great!
Thanks for your reply cyberpunk409. I have not been at my computer over the last week as I travelled to my family's for Christmas.

Glad to hear the Pirelli AT + tyres have been good. I see you're in Australia, so assume (though I may be wrong) that you've limited experience trying them out in the snow/ice? If you have though, please let us know how they performed!

It's cool you got the 225/65/r17 tyre - to confirm I have now placed an order with a local tyre garage for the Pirelli Scorpion AT + in this size too, though it seems we have a shortage in the UK and the guy could only get me three....which is bad luck! So I'm waiting for an import/stock increase to get the last tyre, as obviously I want a complete set of four.

My Michelin Lat Crosses have been great but they are 35/65 off-on road where the Scorpions are 60-40% off-on road so a lot more aggressive, hoping this transpires to better traction in any mud and snow I encounter! Do update us on your off-road excursions, and a happy new year!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Be wary of the KO2's, they're stupid heavy. I also hear bad things about how well the Grabbers work. I haven't heard anything bad about the Duratracs and I have no experience at all with the Scorpions.

I'd like to suggest also looking at WILDPEAK A/T3W TIRE | Falken Tire and GEOLANDAR® A/T G015 | Yokohama Tire , both are severe snow service rated. I have a buddy at work who swears by the Wildpeaks and I absolutely love my Geolandars, they're really sticky tires.
Cheers for your post Flamewave, as said to cyberpunk I've been at my fam's for Christmas but back at my PC now!

So in the end I did bite the bullet and go for the Pirellis, as I like trying more unusual stuff, but I agree with your sentiments on the above tyres.

KO2's I've heard are very heavy and not the best in snow, and Grabbers from what I've heard are not that great in terms of road-driving.

Cheers for your mention of the other two tyres - funnily enough I was almost split between the Falkens and Pirellis and a 4x4 guy I spoke to in the UK recommended the wildpeaks, which were also marginally cheaper and more readily available than the Pirellis, but I'll just have to see how the Scorpion AT + perform and if they're as good as my Michelin on road and slightly better off, I'm onto a winner. Happy New Year!
 

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Thanks for your reply cyberpunk409. I have not been at my computer over the last week as I travelled to my family's for Christmas.

Glad to hear the Pirelli AT + tyres have been good. I see you're in Australia, so assume (though I may be wrong) that you've limited experience trying them out in the snow/ice? If you have though, please let us know how they performed!

It's cool you got the 225/65/r17 tyre - to confirm I have now placed an order with a local tyre garage for the Pirelli Scorpion AT + in this size too, though it seems we have a shortage in the UK and the guy could only get me three....which is bad luck! So I'm waiting for an import/stock increase to get the last tyre, as obviously I want a complete set of four.

My Michelin Lat Crosses have been great but they are 35/65 off-on road where the Scorpions are 60-40% off-on road so a lot more aggressive, hoping this transpires to better traction in any mud and snow I encounter! Do update us on your off-road excursions, and a happy new year!
Have you got that elusive 4th tyre yet?

I did some pretty serious off roading the other weekend, including some rock crawling up about a 25 degree incline... The tyres did not disappoint. The only limitation was the 4 cylinder engine in the end. It never actually stopped being able to go ahead, but there were multiple times i abandoned a section and went down half a km backwards to find a U-turn spot (tight trails).
I knew my vehicle limits and didn't want to push them... Although next time I'll have a little more confidence.
The tyres though did amazingly well!!!
No snow to speak of here where I live. Give us an update once You've got your set on
 

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Got to this a bit late I see. I've heard KO2's are pretty heavy, but a fantastic tire. I plan on going that way once my Patriot is lifted, if I'm ever blessed enough to see that happen as I'd like. However, Cooper Discoverer AT3's are what I run now, in the same 215/65R17 size that the Goodyear Wrangler SR-A's it wore coming out of Belvedere were molded in. And these AT3's have been pretty good so far. A little bit less precise through corners when pushing the traction a little on dry pavement, but of course that's hardly a priority in the last new Jeep model. General brand tires I've heard good reviews on quality, but also have heard that many or perhaps all of their designs are ripoffs of BFG tread patterns. Pirelli I wouldn't know of outside of Formula 1 and the fact they make the factory Hellcat tire, so I can't help ya there. Hope they do well for you though.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Have you got that elusive 4th tyre yet?

I did some pretty serious off roading the other weekend, including some rock crawling up about a 25 degree incline... The tyres did not disappoint. The only limitation was the 4 cylinder engine in the end. It never actually stopped being able to go ahead, but there were multiple times i abandoned a section and went down half a km backwards to find a U-turn spot (tight trails).
I knew my vehicle limits and didn't want to push them... Although next time I'll have a little more confidence.
The tyres though did amazingly well!!!
No snow to speak of here where I live. Give us an update once You've got your set on
Have indeed! Had the Scorpion AT + on the Jeep for about one month now.

Driven about 700 miles or so on them. Pretty happy so far. Ride is quiet, handling seems fine (although they seem a bit noisier/rougher at say 70mph + which is odd so I checked lugnuts and they're all tight, so dno why this is), but otherwise all good. Braking perhaps a touch worse than the Michelins. Acceleration may have veryyyyy slightly decreased due to the change from 235/55 to 225/65 but I may be placeboing and I think any change is negligible.

As for off-roading.....well, they've had mud and snow now! In the mud, they were Ok, although I think they need more testing here. I drove up a slightly muddy, slippery forest track, and I did have some slide and wheelspin, but A: The conditions were slippery enough for most 4x4s and B: I drove too slowly up hill as the track was also bumpy, so with extra gas and more momentum I think they'd have been good. But as I said, jury is out on mud for now.

RE SNOW: They've been great! Been a far better winter in the UK this year than last, and snowed twice recently. In a thin covering absolutely no issues at all. In slushy slippery icey snow, no issues either. Haven't tried deep snow yet but I can't imagine that would be much of a problem. All I know is I took the Jeep up some pretty damn steep icy slush-fest roads 2-3 weeks ago and it did brilliantly. Did not slide or lose control once. So I think these are competent tyres in the snow, though I would say again, like with mud, they could be tested in deeper snow more thoroughly. I will post some photos in a minute.

Great to hear you're also pleased with em. Any photos from the rock-crawling? As I understand, the sidewall isn't as strong as the KO2s, which a lot of people use for rock-crawling, so fair play trying them out there! Any mud yet?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Got to this a bit late I see. I've heard KO2's are pretty heavy, but a fantastic tire. I plan on going that way once my Patriot is lifted, if I'm ever blessed enough to see that happen as I'd like. However, Cooper Discoverer AT3's are what I run now, in the same 215/65R17 size that the Goodyear Wrangler SR-A's it wore coming out of Belvedere were molded in. And these AT3's have been pretty good so far. A little bit less precise through corners when pushing the traction a little on dry pavement, but of course that's hardly a priority in the last new Jeep model. General brand tires I've heard good reviews on quality, but also have heard that many or perhaps all of their designs are ripoffs of BFG tread patterns. Pirelli I wouldn't know of outside of Formula 1 and the fact they make the factory Hellcat tire, so I can't help ya there. Hope they do well for you though.
Yeah, they're the most common All-Terrain tyre I see here in the UK, they're everywhere! And while I was going to get them put on my car, changed my mind last minute as I don't really follow the crowd....so experimented with the Pirellis.

They are also meant to be heavy yeah, and I personally reckon the Pirellis would probably beat them for road-handling and noise, and probably fuel consumption too. I think they'd be better in mud perhaps, but then I've read a lot of comments online stating the KO2s are nothing special in snow.

How are the Coopers working out? I've heard they're meant to be one the best AT's in snow, funnily enough.

I've heard a lot of good about general grabbers tbh, and they're quite popular too, but I think on road and noise they'd be worse, again. Happy with these Pirellis though so far.
 

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Awesome photos, congratulations!

I don't think I'll ever get a chance to test them in snow here in Australia. Closest mountain that gets snow in winter is about 300km away and even then they only let cars drive about half way up the mountain before you need to take a shuttle bus to the peak.

I did do some mild rock crawling and they handled it just fine. My biggest concern was driving through some logging trails with really sharp, fist sized rocks scattered everywhere... They handled that just fine as well.

Regarding the noise at Freeway speeds... Completely normal with AT tyres, from everything I've read the pirellis are actually quiet compared to other all terrains, it's just one of the compromises. Along with worse gas mileage. But that's the price we pay for more capability
 
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Now you just need to chuck a lift on, looks like a low rider with those larger tyres!
 
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PSX_20210217_155246.jpg

Same tyres but Stu coil lift (had to increase brightness and contrast because the car behind me had wheels poking out that gave a false image)

Original:
PSX_20210217_145239.jpg


Well worth the $1000 AUD parts and labour, can't recommend them enough!
 
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Coopers working out alright, I've had them nearly 6 months now and they are holding up pretty well. Got me around Drummond Island pretty well back in October, and have been handling the winter pretty well, within the parameters mentioned above. I've heard KO2's are actually decent with road noise as they aren't a mud tire, but really if road noise is in your top 5 concerns for a tire, you aren't really looking for an all-terrain. Fuel economy I can understand for daily drivers like the Patriot, but again, you're gonna be making some sacrifices, and if you're not gonna do anything more than some rougher dirt roads, you'll be fine with all-seasons, ya know?
 

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i just got KO2'S about a month ago and so far i LOVE them!!!! I got the 30x9.5x15 size and they look amazing...we have had snow here and I haven't had no sliding...I don't do off roading so I'll never be able to tell yall how they do for me there...as far as noisy I don't think they are but that's just me...I couldn't be any happier with them! I love them and would 100% recommend them to anyone!
 

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If I may ask, why get heavy/expensive offroad tires if you're not gonna make use of their capabilities? That's alot of extra money spent every time you get new tires, and probably more in the long run for gasoline.
 

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i love the looks of them and we do get snow and ice here so for that too...honestly where they are 15's they weren't that much...and i have a very short commute to work so i don't put many miles on it at all so they will last me a good while.
 

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Yeah I guess I get it.....off-road pretty fun though. Drummond Island is alot of fun and there's some easy stuff. Same with Rocks and Valleys off-road park.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Awesome photos, congratulations!

I don't think I'll ever get a chance to test them in snow here in Australia. Closest mountain that gets snow in winter is about 300km away and even then they only let cars drive about half way up the mountain before you need to take a shuttle bus to the peak.

I did do some mild rock crawling and they handled it just fine. My biggest concern was driving through some logging trails with really sharp, fist sized rocks scattered everywhere... They handled that just fine as well.

Regarding the noise at Freeway speeds... Completely normal with AT tyres, from everything I've read the pirellis are actually quiet compared to other all terrains, it's just one of the compromises. Along with worse gas mileage. But that's the price we pay for more capability
Shame about the snow, but fair play man!

It's good to know they handled the rock crawling fine though. I know you said "mild," and obv you're not gonna do anything extreme, but nonetheless.....means they should be pretty tough. In my 45K of driving with the Michelin Lat Cross tyres, I had one puncture on one of them, not sure how, but I got that patched up by a tyre place and the tyre never had any problems after. These Scorpions feel marginally stronger though, and their off-on road ratio is more off-road orientated, so should bode well.

Yeah, the noise doesn't really bother me at all, you just notice it more. Also, I'm not 100% my gas mileage is even worse, in fact I really need to test it properly by going on a long drive north to Scotland or somewhere, (when we're allowed to because of these BS lockdowns the gov keeps forcing on us) because my MPG lately has been holding up quite well. And I also read that taller/narrower tyres give you better MPG at med-high speeds than shorter/wider tyres?!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Same tyres but Stu coil lift (had to increase brightness and contrast because the car behind me had wheels poking out that gave a false image)

Well worth the $1000 AUD parts and labour, can't recommend them enough!
Like the jeep man! Same colour/trim as mine I think. The lift is clear to see, for sure.

I've never thought too in depth about getting a lift, wouldn't even know where to begin with actually applying it to the jeep.

There's a lift from some UK based website (greggson off road) but they don't really have many reviews so I don't even know if they're legit. The lift on there is from rough country which are "spacers" apparently. I like the idea of coils though so I could get the Stu coil lift from the Aussie company. Perhaps when I have a spare £400!!!
 
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