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NASCAR is dead? I don't think the folks in Ft. Worth, Texas got the word yet. Stands looked pretty full to me today. Kansas was sold out in October and added a second race next year. Martinsville was full, too. I dont think they've had a ticket for sale on race day at Bristol in 5 years. Some tracks are struggling, most are doing fine. The market changes. The chase this year is the closest it's ever been, and the racing has been more competetive than ever. NASCAR is NOT dead, not even close.
 

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POTM November 2008
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Personally, I liked the old NFL vs AFL days. Some how a more baseball like format seems like a better final champion.

As far as NASCAR, it has never interested me. The racing of machines should be about the innovations in the shop with driver's skill being only a small part of the whole. Simply racing identical non-stock (despite the name) race cars is super boring. I might tune in if they went down to the dealer and bought 20 new actual stock cars and raced them.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well maybe not dead, but they are circling the drain pretty good. Attendance across the board is way down. TV ratings are down. Even the new NASCAR Hall of Fame is doing poorly. I would post links to all of these, but I am lazy this morning.
 

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I have to agree that "participant safety" is starting to water down both of these sports. Driving a car 200 mph, and playing football against 200lb players are both careers that are inherently dangerous. For the respective leagues to believe that they can legislate safety is only a detriment to the popularity of the sport. People watch NASCAR for the wrecks and people watch football for the big hits.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Maybe some of the QB's (or any other player) should pick another line of work. The NFL is not the place for wimps. The players know what they are getting into. I am a fairly large guy, but I wouldn't dare set foot on an NFL field. Those guys will kill ya!!!
 

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POTM November 2008
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I heard a great conversation between 2 well respected friends about football. The upshot of it all was that the "Purple People Eaters" (renowned 1970's Vikings defense team) couldn't cut it in today's NFL. Today players are bigger,tougher,faster, stronger than ever. By nature, the QB is quicker, lighter and more experienced than most other players on the field, other than the kicker. So I see no problem with ramping up and strictly enforcing the roughing the passer penalty. However,that is where it should end....on the field.

On the flip side, I don't have any interest in a XFL kind of game developing where promoters attempt to pass it off as a legitimate football game.
 

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I have to agree that "participant safety" is starting to water down both of these sports. Driving a car 200 mph, and playing football against 200lb players are both careers that are inherently dangerous. For the respective leagues to believe that they can legislate safety is only a detriment to the popularity of the sport. People watch NASCAR for the wrecks and people watch football for the big hits.
No, I watch football for trick plays, good consistent ground games, and the long passes. And yes, GenXer, I miss the AFL and the Mad Bomber.

If NASCAR was actually stock cars they wouldn't be capable of 200MPH and a lot of the safety issues would be moot.

I hope the NFL will get interested in safety before they have a namesake for the equivalent of the Masterson trophy.
 

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just an average Joe
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People watch NASCAR for the wrecks and people watch football for the big hits.
Not everyone...

I have always watched racing for the close but not over the edge. To me great racing is about being on the verge of crashing but somehow still pulling off the move. IndyCars are always on that verge because their wheels are exposed and touching is perilous. NASCAR's current crop of vehicles are not stable enough for them to race really close nose to tail or side by side without constantly crashing. Crashing means that the drivers ran out of talent... any idiot can crash at those speeds.

Football to me is not about the big hits. It is about execution of plays. Too many of today's defenders are all about the big hits, and when they don't deliver the "kill shot" they usually miss the tackle and look stupid... that is why offenses are scoring alot.

We in the United States have trully been reduced to the "Ten Second Tom" viewer. So much of what we do is incredibly short attention span stuff.


For example, the NASCAR race at Texas last week...
the only thing I know about that race (didn't watch it because I don't have cable) came from the local TV news: Denny Hamlin won and took the points lead, Kyle Busch flipped off an official, and Jeff Gordon and Jeff Burton started swinging after a crash. There is no metion of really any "racing" is there?

What parts of an NFL game get replayed? Touchdowns and the "blowup" plays. Show us a replay of a great open field tackle that didn't involve a train wreck... they don't because that is ho-hum.

Train wrecks draw eyes.
 

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In the Steelers vs Raiders game last week, the officials really put it to the Steelers. Not sure if that was to try to even things up, or to send a message to the Steelers, or what??

I'm a hockey fan, and have been all my life. On the sports on the news, they generally show goals, and big hits, and fights, so I understand how you folks feel about your sports too. So much goes on away from the puck to set up plays etc, that I really need to be there live to see the game the way I like to see it. And that's all of it, not just what fits in the camera shots, or what the non-hockey folks want to see in highlight shots.

And I must say, that HD TV should really help hockey. Now you can really see the puck, and the quickness of the game when in HD. So much better than it used to be.
 

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Personally, I liked the old NFL vs AFL days. Some how a more baseball like format seems like a better final champion.

As far as NASCAR, it has never interested me. The racing of machines should be about the innovations in the shop with driver's skill being only a small part of the whole. Simply racing identical non-stock (despite the name) race cars is super boring. I might tune in if they went down to the dealer and bought 20 new actual stock cars and raced them.
:smiley_thumbs_up:
 

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If NASCAR was actually stock cars they wouldn't be capable of 200MPH and a lot of the safety issues would be moot.

Actually back when they were "Stock Cars" they were faster than the joke that goes around the tracks now. Back in the day, Stock cars were easily doing 220 MPH! at places like Daytona and Talladega.

Todays NASCAR , well a chimp could do it. They are all the same, rolling billboards. Is it racing, hard to say, but it sure is a show.

Real drivers were Richard Petty, Cale Yarbourogh, etc, they could drive darn near stock cars at 220 MPH on SKINNY tires.

Today, its not skill, but how much money you have and you are a driver.

Sure, they were not as safe, but it was real racing. And race on Sunday, Buy on Monday actually ment something.

NASCAR North American Stock Car Automobile racing needs a rename to say
BORATL Bunch of Rolling Advertizing Turning Left or,
CNRAYCB Cars Not Resembling Anything You Can Buy
 

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The biggest problem with nascar is they made too many changes to try and make it more competitive, but the same guy wins every year. Its become boring, and predictable.

They should make them race on street tires. That would be way more interesting.
 

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My biggest problem with NASCAR is it's no longer a manufacturer's sport. I cheer for the Dodge, not the person driving it. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that the higher-ups will be looking for ways in the off-season to "Jimmy-proof" the Chase.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I believe I read somewhere once that Johnson would have ZERO titles under the old system. Either way, the Chase was invented to make things more interesting. It hasn't. No one wants to see the same champ over and over. NASCAR has tinkered themselves to death and most "roots" type fans are gone. I am not sure anymore what NASCAR can do to fix themselves.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I just thought of something. What would really make NASCAR more interesting would be to have one owner and one driver. Get rid of the multi-car teams. I know it won't happen, but I think it would be better...maybe...I dunno.
 

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Let me start by saying I AM NOT a Jimmy Johnson fan. I AM a dyed-in-the-wool NASCAR fan. Have been for over 30 years. I've watched alot of good racecar drivers and alot of good racing. I don't think that Jimmie winning 5 championships in a row is good for the sport. I will tell you this...There has NEVER, in the 60 some years of organized stockcar racing, been a driver and team with as much skill, determination and tenacity, as the 48 team. You don't win 5 championships in a row in ANY professional sport unless you are the absoloute best in the world. My hat goes off to Jimmy Johnson and the 48 team. (Now let somebody else have a shot, Jimmie)
 

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I just thought of something. What would really make NASCAR more interesting would be to have one owner and one driver. Get rid of the multi-car teams. I know it won't happen, but I think it would be better...maybe...I dunno.
I think you're on to something. Can you imagine the outcry in any other sport if a group of teams owned by one owner worked together to beat a group of teams with a different owner? But thats business as usual at NASCAR.

Suggested reforms:
1) No multi-car teams.
2) Cars must be street models available for sale at local dealerships. (Let them modify as needed, but the engine, frame and body must be retail).
3) Tires, fuel, etc., also must be typcial retail items. If Goodyear thinks their tires are better than Michelin, they can prove it on the track. (Thanks for the idea, Jeep#2)

As for NFL, how 'bout if the best guys from Boston played the best guys from Indianapolis or Chicago instead of buying players from Texas or Florida? These guys practice after work like the highschool kids practice after school. Would it be a big business like the NFL? No. Heck of a lot more fun? You bet! That's why I like minor league sports. Wifey & me can go to a game where we won't get crushed by the crowd; we can park, pay admisssion and eat a couple hot dogs all for about $20. Best of all, theres a neighbor's family sitting a couple rows from us, and I see a guy I work with at the concession.

Life is better when its real, not manufactured like professional sports.
 
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