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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I just... How can people in their right minds Think that these decisions are OK? I mean.... Have people quit being human?
Its unbelievable that only 3 democrat crossed party lines to approve the health care for babies. I will never vote for the murders ever again.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Like I said, the only stance Democrats have is anti trump. Trump is anti abortion. The democrats will vote against anything and everything that has abortion restrictions, even voting against babies who survive an abortion. They would rather destroy humanity than let trump win anything.
 

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It's all about a women's choice - no bill should tell a women what she can or cannot do with her body or whatever is inside of her body (or has created). Remember women have been oppressed since day 1 and still are! To this day every women is still a victim and until they are allowed more control than men they will always be victims.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
It's all about a women's choice - no bill should tell a women what she can or cannot do with her body or whatever is inside of her body (or has created). Remember women have been oppressed since day 1 and still are! To this day every women is still a victim and until they are allowed more control than men they will always be victims.
I can't tell if you are sarcastic or not, but this bill was about a baby who survived abortion being denied health care. Its really just infanticide. Thank God that Hillary wasn't elected who was very pro abortion, or we'd be back to nazi germany, killing the undesirables, in this case infants.
 

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In places like new york, the definition of abortion now includes killing babies that are born alive with very vague and relaxed guidelines on what the requirements are to justify it. This no longer has anything to do with "woman's choices" when you allow babies to be killed AFTER they are born. That's just murder (I personally believe its murder well before that...). I believe this law was to keep people from "aborting" (killing) babies AFTER they are born alive, at least that's what I got out of reading it.
 

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Well its both sarcastic and real! It may be about saving babies however to many pro-abortion pussy hat feminists - this is an assault on a women's rights (remember that baby was part of the woman thus the women's right and property).

I can't tell if you are sarcastic or not, but this bill was about a baby who survived abortion being denied health care. Its really just infanticide. Thank God that Hillary wasn't elected who was very pro abortion, or we'd be back to nazi germany, killing the undesirables, in this case infants.
 

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In case you're wondering, my post is sarcastic:

Maybe mothers should have the right to terminate their post-delivery fetus up to age 5. By then she's got a pretty good idea if the kid (uh, post-birth fetus) is a problem child or not. (If we extended that to age 18, I doubt most of us would have survived.)

Watch out anyone who's retired: They're coming for you next! You're no longer working, you're no longer productive, you're just a drain on society, you want discounts all the time and you're collecting social security and expecting medicare to pay for your physical problems. All that money wasted on senior healthcare could be spent on education for the post-birth fetuses -- the ones lucky enough to survive.
 

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Never would have guessed that post was sarcastic!

On a serious note - going back in time its interesting to see what was considered acceptable and what was taboo over the course of time. I am sure that in our lifetime we will all see things allowed or disallowed from today's date that we could not have thought would be. Society is ever changing with what it wants and this is more extreme in certain parts of the world over others. Its going to be a bumpy ride, so strap in!
 

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There are no healthy infants that are killed or allowed to die. It's not a thing.

There are newborns born too premature or are dying/diagnosis is incompatible with life. They aren't killed if they are born alive but their parents can and typically do allow them to pass away without being resuscitated. It's called perinatal hospice.

This law is a stupid, cruel law. There are no healthy third-trimester abortions. There are only abortions done for fetuses that are dying or will die once born. If a baby without a brain, lungs or kidneys was born via a "botched abortion"... Why on Earth would you hook them up to tubes and try to keep them alive when there is zero chance a baby can live without a brain, kidneys or lungs?

Use your brain folks. I can assure you the GOP legislators know this. They are playing you. Hook, line, sinker.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
There are no healthy infants that are killed or allowed to die. It's not a thing.

There are newborns born too premature or are dying/diagnosis is incompatible with life. They aren't killed if they are born alive but their parents can and typically do allow them to pass away without being resuscitated. It's called perinatal hospice.

This law is a stupid, cruel law. There are no healthy third-trimester abortions. There are only abortions done for fetuses that are dying or will die once born. If a baby without a brain, lungs or kidneys was born via a "botched abortion"... Why on Earth would you hook them up to tubes and try to keep them alive when there is zero chance a baby can live without a brain, kidneys or lungs?

Use your brain folks. I can assure you the GOP legislators know this. They are playing you. Hook, line, sinker.
I would disagree with you, how can you be sure that "no healthy infants that are killed or allowed to die. It's not a thing." Do you not think its even plausible that this is happening?

About your babies born that don't have a chance at survival. There are plenty of abortion survivors alive and doing well today. So lets go back to that last question, do you really believe that there are nurses that look at a baby gasping for air and immediately know with certainty that it has a chance to survive or not? What would be the harm in trying to see if life support might be able to help it, or if modern medicine could help it?

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Thats what this bill is about, if a survivor is alive outside the womb, shouldn't there at least be an attempt to keep it going? Or are you ok with just discarding them because they obviously or not obviously have a chance at life.
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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I just can't believe it. When a bill that shows up and says a new born infant that is indeed still alive, people are still against it getting any kind of medical attention. Why is this so bad?

Now lets see if we can find the real reason they voted against this bill. Perhaps they don't want people to believe that a baby going through an abortion actually has a chance at life and whether it is actually in the womb or not doesn't make a difference. They even tried to kill it but the resilience of some of these babies allows them even to presist past this.

Now really, why is a bill that allows care for infants outside the womb such a bad thing??? Why would anyone vote against it other than to not promote the idea above?
 

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In my grandparents time (1880 and forward...) in rural parts of this country, many children that weren't in good shape were allowed to die--some assisted--and buried in back yards. I've heard of the still-born sibling(s) of my father being buried near the homestead in rural Yakima (WA) county. It would appear that some sort of "genetic-selectivity" may have been practiced at that time, not that I can either approve or disapprove. I wasn't there, so do not know the situation(s).

My feeling is that a woman should have the right to choose, but at what point in the gestation period should this choice be allowed legally?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
In my grandparents time (1880 and forward...) in rural parts of this country, many children that weren't in good shape were allowed to die--some assisted--and buried in back yards. I've heard of the still-born sibling(s) of my father being buried near the homestead in rural Yakima (WA) county. It would appear that some sort of "genetic-selectivity" may have been practiced at that time, not that I can either approve or disapprove. I wasn't there, so do not know the situation(s).

My feeling is that a woman should have the right to choose, but at what point in the gestation period should this choice be allowed legally?
Do you believe that a baby that just survived an abortion should get medical treatment? Or at least an attempt at medical treatment?
 

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For me, the very core of my beliefs as many of you have probably well guessed by now, life by definition begins at conception. That's how biology works......the science that so many Trump haters are so supportive of, or pretend to be, as long as it doesn't tell you that a human life is more than just cells, that whatever genitals you were born with literally determines which of two genders you are(I don't see any dolphins, allegedly smarter than humans according to some, trying to mix it up like some kids do these days....Bruce Jenner much?), or anything like that.

As Ignatz and ColoradoMan indicated, it's mostly just an anti-Trump thing and if they're taking notes from Hitler's playbook then the only reason they're not claiming anybody more than 10 hours or however long past birth isn't "alive" is because they don't wanna expand it to include themselves. And, well, they don't wanna be too obvious. Like they've done with so many other things.

As for the "it's women's healthcare", I call bullcrap. Many of these are just killing their kids because they wanted to have a little fun but got careless and don't want the inconvenience of having to raise a new life. If you don't want kids, maybe you shouldn't be making any? There's also the whole thing about certain acts perhaps best left only for within the sanctity of marriage. But that's another discussion. Not to mention a good portion of the kids getting killed are female. What about their health? Shouldn't they be able to choose what happens to their little bodies? There was somebody who spoke at chapel while I was at college, a woman who survived some sort of saline-based abortion procedure. Very good speaker, and known well for saying "If abortion is about women's rights, what were mine?" Perhaps some food for thought there.

And yes, there are cases where a pregnancy in some way/shape/form threatens the well-being of the mother-to-be, or the doctors can save mother or baby but not both. These are the only areas where it gets really iffy for me, and in such cases both parents should really talk it over as best they can and make a hard call themselves. Granted in far too many cases one or both of the parents isn't fit and got careless while "looking for a good time", but that really just brings us back to my prior point of perhaps not partaking in any act that may result in the creation of new life if you don't want to shoulder the responsibility of molding that new life into a productive member of society.
 

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I got this line from a novel I read some years ago, but its stuck with me: "The struggle on earth is less between good and evil, and more between life and death."
 

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There's a movie coming out at the end of this month called "Unplanned". Gives quite a bit of insight as to what goes on with this stuff.
 

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Why not just leave this decision to women. I never understood this foolish desire to tell others what to deal with their life and body.
 
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