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Discussion Starter #1
Why is this Administration against Legal Immigrants?

Naturalized US Citizens: Completely legal and previously vetted immigrants who become US Citizens are under attack and their citizenship being revoked for legal or procedural issues occurring before they became citizens and in some cases after becoming citizens. Many are Honorably Discharged Veterans.

Permanent Residents: So called “green card” holders are Legal Permanent Residents who completed all background investigations and may reside in the US with their current legal status or apply for citizenship. The Administration is revoking their Permanent Residence even at the airport as they complete their vacation and are returning home. Many are Honorably Discharge Veterans.

Asylum: Immigrants who ask for asylum are legal immigrants, but the Administration is treating them as criminals who violated some law, when the fact is that the immigrant walks up to an agent at any border crossing and just asks for asylum. That is the legal way to start the process of background investigation which may take years to resolve, but meanwhile any illegal or criminal personal history is enough to deny them asylum. The Administration is actively arresting and detaining these legal asylum seekers pending the outcome of their claim and then deporting these applicants without processing their claims through due process of law. The fact is that all those people on the march to the southern border may arrive and ask for asylum by turning themselves into a Border Patrol agent and because they did so, they would be following legal procedure.

Refugees: Anyone who asks for refugee status must do so the only legal way while living outside the US and once their background investigation is complete and a Refugee Visa is granted by the US, then the refugee comes to the US and not before. When they arrive at the border the Refugee is holding a Legal Refugee Visa. The Administration is rescinding these visas without prior notice as the refugee arrives at the port of entry.

H1-B Visas: The Administration is placing greater obstacles to US Employers of immigrants who are issued a Legal US H1-B Visa. That person may be your doctor or engineer or scientist who comes to the US at the invitation of a US Employer who needs his specific skills.

Recently the Administration announced changes to policy designed to deny Legal Permanent Residence status to anyone who accepted Food Stamps, Medicaid, Section 8 housing or welfare cash. So, this affects single mothers who are in need to care for their US born citizen children. This will also affect the fathers who are delinquent in child support court orders. The Administration is using the system to deny Legal Status to people already holding legal status and will use this to revoke their legal status and deport them.

None of these groups named above are in the US in illegal visa status. Quite the contrary, many have years of paying taxes, owning homes, establishing businesses and employing American workers, but the Administration is against them and using legal means to establish legal precedent to deny legal status and deport them. There are approximately 30 million of these legal status immigrants in the US, but only the US Citizens have the right to register to vote, but many do not vote. If they did the Hispanic group alone would have the political clout to decide many election outcomes.

So, what is an “illegal” immigrant? That usually is someone who entered the US with a Legal Status Visa such as a Tourist, Student, H1-B, fiancée, or others and THEN overstays the period authorized without first legally filing for Change of Legal Status. All these people are DOCUMENTED immigrants.

The other person considered “illegal” is someone who does not cross the border at any port of entry and may or may not have any documents as identification. Only these people, the unknown border crosser is the only immigrant that may be called “undocumented” and only if the immigrant crosses the border without any documents from their country of origin such as a passport or other ID that has not been presented to a US Immigration official.

Unfortunately, many Americans are not familiar with the many different types of Legal Immigrant Visas available and are influenced by politicians into believing that any immigrant is in the US in illegal status and that is just not true.

Ok, so I withdraw my statement that all Republicans are anti-immigrant, but I reaffirm that the American people are not being properly informed on this issue. I am an immigrant, US Citizen, US Navy Chief, but because I was not born in the USA I will always be an immigrant and there are things in my past even after an FBI background investigation for a Top-Secret SCI Clearance that I’m sure this Administration or any future right wing administration could use to rescind my citizenship and deport me too. This Administration has made me feel separate and unequal without any regard to my prior military service or current government service. It is obvious to me that being a Naturalized US Citizen does not make me an American because many US Born Americans make me feel that way. I am not one of you and being Hispanic with a Hispanic surname only adds to that separation. Change your attitude towards people like me or pass a law that being a naturalized citizen is a second-class citizen. Think about it.

This November I encourage you to vote.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
The Wall will not stop this

The Administration continues to tell people that building a wall across the southern US border will stop “illegal” immigration, but the fact is it will not. The Administration is not telling the truth.

The fact is that people go to a US Consulate anywhere in the world and legally apply for a visitor’s visa. Once granted they go to the airport and board a plane to New York, Los Angeles and Miami. Upon arrival at the airport they present their Legal Documents to the immigration agent such as their passport legally issued by their country of origin containing in it a US Visitor’s Visa stamped on it by a US Consulate official and they go on their way to see the sights and spend money. If they choose not to return to their country and they do not file the appropriate forms in time with the US Immigration Service to “change their legal status” from visitor to permanent resident then, and only then, will they remain in the US in a “illegal” status. The truth is they will fly over the wall.

Asylum seekers will continue to arrive at US Border Crossings or any other US Port of Entry such as in Guam, Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands or Wichita, Kansas where they approach a US Immigration officer and ask for asylum by following all legal procedure which plainly states they must ask for asylum upon entering the US. Thousands of people will still be able to march across the countryside to the US border and ask for asylum.

Refugees will continue to ask for refugee status through the only legal means available to them which is while they are still outside the US.

H1-B Visa applicants will continue to come at the invitation of US employers.

So, who are they talking about? Who is the wall supposed to stop? Maybe the guy who is crossing the desert or swimming across the Rio Grande across the South Western US. That is a very small percentage of people who may just look for alternative paths such as by sea or across the thousands of possible crossings at the northern border. The wall will not stop the great number of immigrants coming in by sea across the Florida Straits where the routes are well known.

The wall will cost the US taxpayer millions of dollars and Mexico will not pay for it. The wall will affect regional commerce and be a significant environmental issue to the local people in the area.

The wall will not stop what the Administration wants you to believe it will stop.
This November vote your conscience.
 

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I’m sure this Administration or any future right wing administration could use to rescind my citizenship and deport me too. This Administration has made me feel separate and unequal without any regard to my prior military service or current government service. It is obvious to me that being a Naturalized US Citizen does not make me an American because many US Born Americans make me feel that way. I am not one of you and being Hispanic with a Hispanic surname only adds to that separation. Change your attitude towards people like me or pass a law that being a naturalized citizen is a second-class citizen. Think about it.

This November I encourage you to vote.
I worked with a ton of legal and illegal immigrants. I can tell you that the legal immigrants were pissed at the illegal immigrants for going around the system and doing things the incorrect way.

And why do you feel separate and unequal? I have never seen anything in this administration or any administration to condone the legal immigrants already here. If you can find me a quote (not taken out of context) or any kind of proof that this isn't true, let me know.

Maybe its more of people around you treating you unfairly. In my work, more than half of the people I work with daily are legal immigrants. I have not seen them treated unfairly in any way. Perhaps if you don't like how you are treated where you are, you should go find a different job.

Btw, the damage from illegal immigrants can be painful. An immigrant from Scandinavia with an expired visa caused one of the biggest fires in Colorado history this year. Of course the press won't tell you this because they are for illegal immigration. He did it in arson as well.

Vote Republican this November, UPHOLD THE LAWS and not just the laws you like, ALL LAWS, because the democrats could care less about the law of the land.
 

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The wall will not stop what the Administration wants you to believe it will stop.
This November vote your conscience.
Have you lived in any of the boarder areas in the US? I can tell you from experience that people cross daily illegally. There are places where I have been where people are crossing armed and ready to rob you at any time. Of course most of the time they mind their own business but it is scary for the LEGAL immigrants and the US citizens to live their on their own land.

Do you have any statistics to back up what you are saying? Or do you just have your opinions here?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
It is the Law - Not statistics

Well friend, statistics can be manipulated very easily to support arguments. I am talking about the law and for immigration law the US has two primary sources. The US Code of Federal Regulations and the Immigration and Nationality Act, and here are the links:
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=252e4bc193d0a56acdbf1796f4291c36&mc=true&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title08/8tab_02.tpl
and
https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/act.html besides these the US Congress has from time to time amended the laws.

The truth is that Democrats and Republicans want the same outcome, but from different points of view. No Democrat wants “open borders” regardless of what this Administration and politicians want Republicans to believe. The same way true Republicans do not want to exclude everyone.

The truth is that the only way to slow down “illegal” immigration is through by-partisan legislation in the US Congress for a comprehensive immigration policy that meets the needs of US Commerce and leaves options available to families in the US and out of the US to apply for legal status. A real process where there may be the much talked about “line” which currently does not exists. There is no “line” to wait your turn for a permanent resident visa. All the talk about someone’s grandparents coming to the US legally is out of touch with reality. Elis Island is no longer open. There is no real legal process for any un-skilled laborer to seek a visa to the US as the first member of his family to do so. Current law requires a potential immigrant to have a family member in legal status already in the US.

Regardless of position true comprehensive immigration reform will not necessarily be favorable to Latin America. The truth is it will more than likely result in favoring India, China, and other Asian countries excluding Mexico and most of Latin America, Africa and may even include racial and religious exclusions which will pass constitutional muster. Immigration law has always been about commerce and not at all about human rights.
 

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The wall is a deterrent only and is a waste of money.
Armed law enforcement is the only solution.

Oh yea, whats stopping any Mexican from going on a USA bound swim :D

 

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Why is this Administration against Legal Immigrants?

Naturalized US Citizens: Completely legal and previously vetted immigrants who become US Citizens are under attack and their citizenship being revoked for legal or procedural issues occurring before they became citizens and in some cases after becoming citizens. Many are Honorably Discharged Veterans.

Trump did create a task force within Customs and Border PAtrol that is looking into about 2500 cases of "denaturalization" So far they have found about 100 cases of fraud in the application process and have "denaturalized" 30 people. Obama's administration "denaturalized" 16 people his last year in office. Even once a person is accused of fraud in the application process the case is referred to federal court. A person cannot be "denaturalized" without Due Process. In the cases so far, very few are veterans. Most are individuals that were deported in the 80's or 90's and then came back with falsified identity documents and went through the citizenship process. Once a person is deported they are no longer eligible for any type of legal status in the U.S.
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/immigrants-can-the-government-revoke-your-citizenship/

Permanent Residents: So called “green card” holders are Legal Permanent Residents who completed all background investigations and may reside in the US with their current legal status or apply for citizenship. The Administration is revoking their Permanent Residence even at the airport as they complete their vacation and are returning home. Many are Honorably Discharge Veterans.
Revoking permanent residency is much the same as "denaturalization" in that the matter is referred to a federal court. A government agency simply can't away a person "green card" and give them the boot. There are more stringent requirements on permanent residence holders than on naturalized citizens though. A big one that gets people in trouble is "voluntary abandonment" If you leave the U.S. or it's territories for more than 180 consecutive days, your permanent resident status is terminated. There is a work around, but it has to be set up in advance.
https://www.inlg-usa.com/blog/2017/11/can-permanent-resident-status-get-revoked.shtml

Asylum: Immigrants who ask for asylum are legal immigrants, but the Administration is treating them as criminals who violated some law, when the fact is that the immigrant walks up to an agent at any border crossing and just asks for asylum. That is the legal way to start the process of background investigation which may take years to resolve, but meanwhile any illegal or criminal personal history is enough to deny them asylum. The Administration is actively arresting and detaining these legal asylum seekers pending the outcome of their claim and then deporting these applicants without processing their claims through due process of law. The fact is that all those people on the march to the southern border may arrive and ask for asylum by turning themselves into a Border Patrol agent and because they did so, they would be following legal procedure.
The asylum issue is very tricky. First once you reach the U.S. there is a form that must be filled out and submitted to the proper authorities within 1 year. If you have been deported from t he U.S. in the past your request will be denied. This is what gets a lot of asylum seekers from Central and South America. Just because someone does it the right and legal way this time, doesn't mean they are within the law. Asylum seekers also have to meet certain requirements and be able to prove them. If not, then back they go. There is no difference in the law between now and prior administrations. A difference of enforcement, perhaps.... but the law has not changed.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/migrant-caravan-swells-to-more-than-5000-as-group-marches-toward-us/2018/10/21/2c864bec-d546-11e8-8384-bcc5492fef49_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0fc870de040a

Refugees: Anyone who asks for refugee status must do so the only legal way while living outside the US and once their background investigation is complete and a Refugee Visa is granted by the US, then the refugee comes to the US and not before. When they arrive at the border the Refugee is holding a Legal Refugee Visa. The Administration is rescinding these visas without prior notice as the refugee arrives at the port of entry.
Actually, technically, you cannot "ask" for refugee status. A person seeking refugee status must be referred to customs and immigration. That person has to be living outside of the U.S. at the time of the referral. They are then interviewed and are helped with completing the necessary paperwork. The U.S. sets annual limits on the number of refugees allowed to enter the U.S. Once that cap is met, that's it. Trump has lowered the cap each year. From 110,000 in Obama's last term to 45,000. Then he is expected to lower it again from 45,000 to 20-25,000 this year. If a person is given refugee status they are admitted to the U.S. If they are not given refugee status and come here anyway, they are deported. A lot of News sites use refugee and asylum as interchangeable but they are very different. A quick google search "U.S. turning away approved refugees" comes back with almost all results about asylum seekers and migrant's. Trump has taken a hard line stance here by seriously reducing the number of approved refugee visas.
https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/refugees

H1-B Visas: The Administration is placing greater obstacles to US Employers of immigrants who are issued a Legal US H1-B Visa. That person may be your doctor or engineer or scientist who comes to the US at the invitation of a US Employer who needs his specific skills.
The H1-b is also known as the "specialty occupation" visa. It was used in the past to help American business staff themselves with specialized talent that they had a hard time finding enough of within the U.S. There is a quota set each year and once they are issued that's it. (85,000) No more. The vast majority of these Visas were going to residents of India applying for IT jobs in the U.S. The changes made by the Trump administration set certain experience requirements for that group and specifically excluding "entry level computer programmers" from the H1-b lottery. The Trump administration also curbed the number of H-4 "spousal visas" that are awarded to H1-b lottery winners.
https://shieldgeo.com/recent-changes-to-the-h1b-visa-in-the-us/


Recently the Administration announced changes to policy designed to deny Legal Permanent Residence status to anyone who accepted Food Stamps, Medicaid, Section 8 housing or welfare cash. So, this affects single mothers who are in need to care for their US born citizen children. This will also affect the fathers who are delinquent in child support court orders. The Administration is using the system to deny Legal Status to people already holding legal status and will use this to revoke their legal status and deport them.
Current immigration law states that someone who does not currently hold permanant legal status is barred from receiving public benefits like food stamps, welfare, etc. So, if a person is receiving those benefits prior to attaining Permanent legal status then they were receiving those benefits illegaly and broke the law. This was the law long before Trump's adminstration and Obama holds the record for deportations for this reason. It will take Trump a few years to catch up.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/will-receiving-public-benefits-hurt-your-chances-us-citizenship.html

None of these groups named above are in the US in illegal visa status. Quite the contrary, many have years of paying taxes, owning homes, establishing businesses and employing American workers, but the Administration is against them and using legal means to establish legal precedent to deny legal status and deport them. There are approximately 30 million of these legal status immigrants in the US, but only the US Citizens have the right to register to vote, but many do not vote. If they did the Hispanic group alone would have the political clout to decide many election outcomes.

So, what is an “illegal” immigrant? That usually is someone who entered the US with a Legal Status Visa such as a Tourist, Student, H1-B, fiancée, or others and THEN overstays the period authorized without first legally filing for Change of Legal Status. All these people are DOCUMENTED immigrants.

The other person considered “illegal” is someone who does not cross the border at any port of entry and may or may not have any documents as identification. Only these people, the unknown border crosser is the only immigrant that may be called “undocumented” and only if the immigrant crosses the border without any documents from their country of origin such as a passport or other ID that has not been presented to a US Immigration official.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/who-is-undocumented-immigrant.html

Unfortunately, many Americans are not familiar with the many different types of Legal Immigrant Visas available and are influenced by politicians into believing that any immigrant is in the US in illegal status and that is just not true.
I agree with this statement, but it also includes a lot of immigrants. You can research the links I provided ( i tried for the most unbiased sources I could) and see that a lot of the statements in your own summary are inaccurate or downright incorrect. Both political parties are playing the same game from opposite ends of the field. The right blames a lot of ills on illegal immigration, and the left cries racism and accuses the right of inhumane policies regarding all immigrants.

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The only solution here is a total overhaul of the entire system. That is another debate, but it's the only way all these issues can be addressed. I feel that a large reason for the amount of illegal immigration into the U.S. is due to our overly complicated process that most people don't understand. Especially those going through or attempting to go through the process. We have to find a way to simplify the process while maintaining the necessary measure of security for our civilian population. That's a tall task and would require political leaders more interested in fixing the issue than scoring cheap political points for their party for an upcoming election.
 

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The wall is a deterrent only and is a waste of money.
Armed law enforcement is the only solution.
]
This is true.. I've met lots of people from all over the world that know what a ladder is. And the tunnel systems they are currently constructing are fantastic works of engineering for "four guys with shovels" type of operations. But paying armed enforcement would be just as, if not more, expensive, and then opens up a discussion about the "militarization" of our borders.

I have been to that spot in your photo. Lots of people gather at that fence each day to talk with family members.
 

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Well friend, statistics can be manipulated very easily to support arguments. I am talking about the law and for immigration law the US has two primary sources. The US Code of Federal Regulations and the Immigration and Nationality Act, and here are the links:
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=252e4bc193d0a56acdbf1796f4291c36&mc=true&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title08/8tab_02.tpl
and
https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/act.html besides these the US Congress has from time to time amended the laws.

The wall will not stop what the Administration wants you to believe it will stop.
This November vote your conscience.

I’m sure this Administration or any future right wing administration could use to rescind my citizenship and deport me too.
These links do not back up any facts from the opinion that you mentioned. Do you have any links of sources of truth to support your 2 opinions above?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Vote because if you do not they win

Well ColoradoMan, this is just an online forum and I am not interested in convincing anyone of anything. My opinion in some respects I would say, but backed by law as Danger Aaron has confirmed, although I can’t tell if he is disputing or simply amplifying my commentary, but just to clarify one point. Single mothers may be in illegal status and give birth to a US citizen child who is eligible for food stamps. The States will grant the child food stamps as administered by the mother. Perfectly legal in Florida.
Nevertheless, the man in the White House has made it acceptable to rant on without any proof of any stupid comment he said so I’m just following his lead. Today he is saying that criminals and middle eastern people are among the people in the new caravan making the trek north across the wilderness. No proof offered. Some people believe anything the Republicans are saying, but one of the dangers is that the Republicans are very close to saying the Democrats are the enemy. So, ColoradoMan I’m using this forum to rant on because the First and Second Amendment are mine too. No proof needed.

One truth is that to solve the immigration issues the Republicans and Democrats MUST be willing to talk with each other and make some serious sacrifices and compromises.

There used to be a visa quota system and it was done away with in the current law, but maybe it needs to be reinstated. That quota system was the closest thing to a “line” for a visa and it could be a popular item.

The Administration wants to do away with the visa lottery system, which is currently in open season for a few more days, and 2020 may be the last year to obtain a visa legally by lottery.

The Administration also would like to end “chain migration” which is the only legal way that a legal resident in the US may apply for a family member. Most legal immigrants benefit from this including the First Lady as recently reported. Ending this path to legal immigration will most likely result in a significant increase of illegal immigration because there would be no reasonable alternative available to law abiding legal residents or naturalized citizens.

I can see a day when to solve the issue a bipartisan bill will have nationality, race, religion, language, quotas and other items in a new immigration act that will send the signal to the world that the US is closed.

Years ago, any immigrant in illegal status would simply go underground, adopt a new identity, borrow a SSN and driver’s license, bank account and much more because INS would not be able to find him. Today they could do the same if only they threw away that cell phone.

Today we have young people asking for DACA protections as if they had some right to do so. Naïve of them, ICE has all their information.

Years ago, permanent residents had to report their current address annually and that program ended in the 80’s so today there is no location information on permanent residents.

Anyway, if you like the direction of the country vote Republican. If you think the country is on the wrong path vote Democrat. Unfortunately, some people will vote on the abortion or gun control issue alone and that is our greatest loss. I will add that immigration will not be on the minds of most voters as the reason for their choice.
 

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Thank goodness I was born here and not have to worry about this. Than again the rest of my family that was not born here and fled communism never had to deal with these new laws but they did follow the flow correctly and came here legally.
 
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Well ColoradoMan, this is just an online forum and I am not interested in convincing anyone of anything. My opinion in some respects I would say, but backed by law as Danger Aaron has confirmed
This is incorrect, your quotes below are not supported by the any evidence including not being backed by the law.

"The wall will not stop what the Administration wants you to believe it will stop.
This November vote your conscience.
I’m sure this Administration or any future right wing administration could use to rescind my citizenship and deport me too."

I think you just don't like trump because he is trying to stop illegal immigration. From what you are saying it seems you are for illegal immigration. Why can't the laws of the land just be upheld? Its not like anything about them is really new and they used to be mostly upheld.


There used to be a visa quota system and it was done away with in the current law, but maybe it needs to be reinstated. That quota system was the closest thing to a “line” for a visa and it could be a popular item.
This is wrong again. I work with people who get H1B visas. They are given out in the tens of thousands each year.

The Administration wants to do away with the visa lottery system, which is currently in open season for a few more days, and 2020 may be the last year to obtain a visa legally by lottery.
Again do you have any quotes that the administration wants to do this? Or is this just your opinion too?

The Administration also would like to end “chain migration” which is the only legal way that a legal resident in the US may apply for a family member.
Quote or proof? Nothing again?

Anyway, if you like the direction of the country vote Republican. If you think the country is on the wrong path vote Democrat. Unfortunately, some people will vote on the abortion or gun control issue alone and that is our greatest loss. I will add that immigration will not be on the minds of most voters as the reason for their choice.
You can vote how you'd like but I prefer to base my vote and my opinion on actual facts instead of just listening to what the media says I should vote for.
I also am going to say your opinions are wrong, the administration is not attacking LEGAL immigration.
 

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My opinion in some respects I would say, but backed by law as Danger Aaron has confirmed, although I can’t tell if he is disputing or simply amplifying my commentary,
Immigrant to be clear, I was attempting to provide actual sources that either confirmed or denied your claims. If you follow through with the links I provided (most are to actual governmental agency websites, or to companies that provide help with immigration law) you would find that a lot of the claims you made are either wrong or grossly over stated. A Naturalized citizen or legal permanent resident cannot simply be kicked out or have their status arbitrarily revoked or rescinded by the president. It takes a federal court. And if we have seen anything over the last year, it is that the federal court system has erred on the side of the immigrants over the president's ranting. It simply isn't happening on a scale your post indicates. Or, for that matter, a scale that it wasn't happening on during previous presidential administrations.
The H1B Visa always has been and continues to be a lottery system. there are 85,000 available per year with around 200,000 applicants each year. Trump has tweaked the system a bit, but the lottery is in tact as it has always been.
Last, there is a very distinct difference between Asylum and Refugee status. The media (regardless of bias) seems to conflate the two. this confuses the issue and gets people from across the political spectrum wound up simply because they don't understand the differences and have either failed to do their own research or have misunderstood the differences.

I DO believe that our immigration system as a whole is broken. I DO NOT believe building a wall will fix anything. I still believe in the "Shining City on the hill". I know that our statue of liberty says "send me your tired, your weak, and your poor...." on it's base. I understand the security concerns following our experience in September of 2001.
In your post you call out those that make an election a single issue by voting for how they feel about abortion or the second amendment, but aren't you doing the same exact thing just with immigration? And, if you are going to do that, I at least think you should follow the links I provided and clear up a few of the exaggerations in your statements. This is one area where I clearly see the two major political parties trying to score cheap points by exaggerating their claims. Republicans: "most immigrants are criminals".... Democrats: creating "sanctuary cities" that refuse to cooperate with federal immigration authorities. There is a legit need for laws and security for the good of the population. There are also a lot of people that want to come here that will ultimately make us better as a whole.
 

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There are also a lot of people that want to come here that will ultimately make us better as a whole.
First of all I thought you said your thoughts very elegantly and to the point.

I do support legal immigration. I believe that the standards we have in place for coming here legally will allow people to immigrate here that will indeed ultimately make us better as a whole. Its the people who come here illegally which can't be as guaranteed to have the same affect.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Google it

No history lesson here fellows. Google it. All my very short statements are supported in fact, history and law, but this is not a legal argument in a court of law. Fellows, it is a Jeep Forum. Relax.
The lottery I’m talking about is the Diversity visa program, not H1-B, which opened on 10/3/2018 and ends on 11/7/2018 I believe for the year 2020 and if the Administration follows through on the threat it will be the last year. It is found in the State Dept website.

Sanctuary Cities are a commandment from God found in the Holy Bible, Numbers 35. Of course, some Christians only use the scripture to support what they claim, but I read scripture too.

Today it was reported that the Attorney General is seeking greater authority over immigration matters. That is today’s news. Most people do not know that it is the Attorney General who is the head honcho in charge over immigration and can make policy decisions out of court.

I did not say that if they come for me I would not have due process, but that is today. In the future I expect the authority of the executive over immigration matters to increase. The writing is on the wall as they say. This administration is showing its intentions daily.

What I expect if the Republicans win in 2018 and again in 2020 is to return to previous immigration policy when quotas existed, as in before the 1965 law, and discrimination on the basis of national origin will return, as it was in the 40’s and this time around it will include discrimination on language, religion, race and other things. That would be on track with the call to make America great again. Before 1965 immigration law assured that the gene pool would remain white. After 1965 with the current law the diversification of the gene pool has led to the current real possibility that whites will be a minority soon. This administration does not want that to happen and will do what it can to reverse it. This week the President said he is a Nationalist. There was another very famous nationalist in the 30’s and 40’s.

What do you expect to happen when those children walking towards the border arrive? I expect the administration will detain them, but since it is not a criminal offense to ask for asylum, they will have a right to an attorney, but not to have an attorney appointed to them. The result is immigrant children will face the US Government without legal representation. Their claim will likely be denied and off they go to be deported. Meanwhile the world is waiting to see if the US will do the right thing.

One mistake many people make when talking about immigration issues is to extend constitutional rights to foreigners.

This thread is about Legal Immigration. I’m not a single-issue voter. I have many other issues to devote my time to.
 

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Sanctuary Cities are a commandment from God found in the Holy Bible, Numbers 35.
I read the Bible too. If you read all of that chapter, what was the reason that God provided those sanctuary cities?

Of course, some Christians only use the scripture to support what they claim.
I agree, and it bugs me.

Now don't get me wrong. I've nothing against immigrants. Most of me is immigrant, although I've got some native blood, too. However, I'd like to be considered for who I am, not who my ancestors were.

Immigrant, you are a Chief in the Navy? Thank you for your service to OUR country. :carryflag:
 

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I don't agree with using a religious phrase (from one of many religions) that had been rewritten thousands of times (as well as interrupted) to interrupt modern day secular (law) immigration policies.
 

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Seriously. Numbers 35 is about Moses creating sanctuaries for Levites, a specific tribe of Israel, among the other 11 tribes. It ignores Deuteronomy 20:17, where Moses said to invade the land and kill every non-Jewish man, woman and child that was already there where these "sanctuaries" where to be built. Talk about twisting the Bible to only see what you want. Jeez.
 

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H1-B, which opened on 10/3/2018 and ends on 11/7/2018 I believe for the year 2020 and if the Administration follows through on the threat it will be the last year
What is your reasoning behind this statement? (Not looking for proof yet, just want to know why you say such things)
 

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Moses died over 3,000 years ago (varies by everyone who you ask). Those books have been revised thousands of times to fit whomever was in powers views. This is not Egypt or Jordon and we are not a jewish nation. These talking points are completely irrelevant in every single way to this conversation/debate.

Seriously. Numbers 35 is about Moses creating sanctuaries for Levites, a specific tribe of Israel, among the other 11 tribes. It ignores Deuteronomy 20:17, where Moses said to invade the land and kill every non-Jewish man, woman and child that was already there where these "sanctuaries" where to be built. Talk about twisting the Bible to only see what you want. Jeez.
 
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