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Discussion Starter #1
So as many of you have experience when the $30 Wheel speed sensors start acting up they can literally put your life at risk. Without going to much into detail if your Patriot ever starts flashing AES/ABS lights and braking on its own.

My rear brake pads were about to need replacement with 30% surface left. I was planning on doing the job on my day off when all of the sudden while on a date my Patriot starts going crazy, revs shot up and starts braking on its own. I was embarrassed and during the situation I forgot Pull over and just pull fuses 34/35. Ended up taking her home to deal with the situation.

Two years ago I had dealt with this issue before and replaced one of the
wheel speed sensors. I knew right away what the issue was except this time I thought maybe one of the inside pads its completely worn out. Went to my local auto parts to change the rear brake pads in the parking lot. When I removed the brake pads I realized that the inside was worn more than the outside 2MM/4MM. I replaced the pads the codes went away and the Patriot is back to normal.

The Auto parts didn't have a Loaner Scanner and I didn't get a chance to read the codes and was wondering if a thin pad could cause the sensor to go haywire. After replacing the pad the issue went away and the faults cleared.

This issue could easily cause an accident if it starts faulting and braking leading to someone crashing into you. I've never seen any other vehicle with ABS get affected in this way and I'm assuming it has to do with the FDII downhill assist programing. They need to program a by pass into the controller so like every other ABS break system when the sensor goes bad it deactivates the ABS, throws a code without almost killing you.
 

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I'm not sure if I've ever heard of this issue before and I read most of the threads.

Seems like a pretty crazy scenario of what happend. Did you ever take your Patriot to the dealership?

So Jeep should recall all Jeep Patriots because of your one issue? I hope this isn't the begining of another Recall Jeep Patriot thread.
 

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There is no connection (physical or electrical) between the pad thickness and the wheel speed sensor. The sensor itself is located on the rear of the rear bearing hub, well away from the brake pads, so not sure how changing the pads would have fixed anything. Maybe you bumped the sensor wire while doing the pads and caused it to reconnect?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Todde one thing I forgot to mention is that before when I had sensor issues when I replaced the sensor I noticed the hub and small rectangular slot where the sensor clips in was very corroded. So at the time I replaced it I had some electrical cleaner spray and spray the cavity let it dry and than sprayed some WD40. So while replacing the pads I pulled each sensor and the one I replaced 3 years ago had less corrosion and I'm wondering if it had to do with the WD40 sprayed in there. At the time I didn't understand how the sensor worked and I was afraid to foul the sensor by putting some kind of dielectric grease or silicone spray. From what I know the sensor works on magnetic principle by reading sprockets built into the bearing. So I agained pulled the sensor sprayed the sensor and cavity with electronic cleaner and WD40. Let it dripped while replacing the calipers and installed again. By the way the way the Sensor clips into the rotor it's a scary design because it barely holds it.

Unrelated question while working on the left rear wheel well I found this thin plastic tubing about a 1/3 of a size of a plastic hanger and same material. It had a 90 degree bent and it came from under the car. The end was not attached to anything it was really strange. I was in a rush to get the work done and didn't have time to investigate so I left it there, I'm wondering if that's something that got stuck in there somehow or maybe something they used to hang the caliper when the pads were previously replaced, but than you don't really need to hang the caliper with anything.

I don't have a torque wrench I got it as tight as possible to the point that the slider pin corners started to strip a bit, how do you feel about having to torque the pin.
 

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I don't have a torque wrench I got it as tight as possible to the point that the slider pin corners started to strip a bit, how do you feel about having to torque the pin.
That's probably too tight. I don't recall the exact diameter of the bolt itself on the calipers, but I would guess about a 10mm diameter (bolt shank diameter, not wrench size), so a max of about 40 ft. lbs. So if you had a wrench one foot long, this would be like hanging 40 lbs of weight on the very end of the wrench. Here's a handy chart for reference. Most all automotive bolts are grade 8 (or 8.8 for metric bolts). If you're unsure of the bolt shank size, try a couple different sized open end wrenchs over the threaded part of the bolt. The wrench that fits tightest is the bolt diameter.

http://www.engineershandbook.com/Tables/torque1.htm

I do it mostly by feel myself, but then I've been turning wrenches since 1986. I just finished doing a rear wheel bearing and the rear axle nut was something like 180-201 ft. lbs. Perfect, I weigh 190, so i stood on my breaker bar just past the 1 foot mark and gave a little bounce. Then had to tighten it a tad more for the cotter pin.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
It started to strip because of the angle that I was placing the wrench. I like your reference to the hanging weight. I lifts weights and I could use that visualization to have a better estimate to how much torque I should be using. Or using my own body weight.
 

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I'm not sure if I've ever heard of this issue before and I read most of the threads.
exactly.

Kind of a rare duck. I doubt a recall will happen, sorry murphys law chose you.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
exactly.

Kind of a rare duck. I doubt a recall will happen, sorry murphys law chose you.
Again, Look at the link and do a forum search. It's not a rare duck and the issue is not the durability of the sensor because it's only a $30. It's the ABS ECU programing and how it reacts to a bad sensor.

I'll go out on a limb and say that on ALL cars when the system detects a fault on the wheel speed sensor it simply turns on the lights and deactivates the ABS, still allowing you to brake normal. You just have to remember if you need to do an emergency brake you will need to pump the brakes.
This is not the case of the Patriot when the sensor faults the System detects it as wheel speed change activating your ABS/BREAKING. Imagine going down the HWY and you start hearing the ABS breaks activating and feeling the pedal vibration. The ECU does not know the difference between a bad sensor and an actual wheel speed variance.

You shouldn't have to stop the car to pull fuses 34/35 as to avoid getting into an accident because your patriot brakes on it's own.

I have a feeling this might only apply to the 4x4 or trail rates versions due to the AES function.
 

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Manny, I feel your pain. You are right, this is not a fluke. The cheap-assed speed sensor and fragging computer contolled everything damn near killed me. I don't wish this on anyone, but it will probably take a fatality to get Chrysler's attention. I'm sure the Chrysler/Daimler/Fiat/Walmart? Lawyers are telling them that they don't need to bother to fix it unless they get substantial lawsuits.

Here are several posts on the problem:

http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105412
http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22381
http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106789
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Manny, I feel your pain. You are right, this is not a fluke. The cheap-assed speed sensor and fragging computer contolled everything damn near killed me. I don't wish this on anyone, but it will probably take a fatality to get Chrysler's attention. I'm sure the Chrysler/Daimler/Fiat/Walmart? Lawyers are telling them that they don't need to bother to fix it unless they get substantial lawsuits.

Here are several posts on the problem:

http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105412
http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22381
http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106789
Thank you for your support. Let me expand that very few people/ including the stealerships understand this issue or how the programing affects it. I'm thankful to have mechanical inclination and I work on an unrelated electronics field so I understand the issue well. I've read a couple of horror stories where the dealership crooks as always want to replace the ECU/ABS controller $700. What's going to happened when a mother with kids, or someone that has no clue driving thru some ice, or dangerous road and they encounter this situation.

Lets all help out each other by not waiting until someone from our community has an accident please see my thread about filling an a complain. http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133641
 

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Thank you for your support. Let me expand that very few people/ including the stealerships understand this issue or how the programing affects it. I'm thankful to have mechanical inclination and I work on an unrelated electronics field so I understand the issue well. I've read a couple of horror stories where the dealership crooks as always want to replace the ECU/ABS controller $700. What's going to happened when a mother with kids, or someone that has no clue driving thru some ice, or dangerous road and they encounter this situation.

Lets all help out each other by not waiting until someone from our community has an accident please see my thread about filling an a complain. http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133641
None of the links provided here are related to your claimed issue. Your claiming there was a loss of control and brakes were being applied without your input. NON of the post said that happened to them.

Sure the sensor may have failed, but non had control issues like your claiming.

So is this a common issue that needs a recall, Nope, isolated incident

So please stop, no one other than you has ever posted the results your claiming.
 

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Jeep#2, I respectfully disagree. Somewhere in one of those posts I recount my story of driving around a turn and the brakes engaging on their own causing me to nearly crash. This happened on more than one occasion until I found out (on this forum) how to pull the fuse to disable the ABS, until I could get a new wheel sensor.
 

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I had something like this happen to me in a 1990's Chevy S10. It caused me to have to choose between attempting to weave through traffic, hit sitting traffic or crash into a concrete based light post. I chose the post and broke my sternum on the seat belt - it actually takes years for the cartilage to fully heal.

I refused to buy a vehicle with anti-locks until that was no longer possible after that and traded the Chevy for a Dodge when I decided to move from Kansas to Idaho. Glad I did too. I ended up finding work in Billings, MT and had to commute back to Pocahello, ID weekly - regardless of weather.

Anyway, anti-locks give me the creeps.
 

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In my experience, I've never heard of anti lock brakes causing breaks to simply not work, they are designed to, if they fail, simply allow brakes to be brakes. which means you can lock them up pretty hard, and go into a skid, but they still work.

This is actually the case on the car I drive now. Has anti lock brakes, the system is busted, would cost more than i paid for the car to fix, so I just drive it. I've locked up the wheels a few times till I got better tires/rims (riding with 225 wide tires vs the 195 wide, and it makes a HUGE difference in braking)

That makes me wonder if there was something else going on with your brakes...
 

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It started to strip because of the angle that I was placing the wrench. I like your reference to the hanging weight. I lifts weights and I could use that visualization to have a better estimate to how much torque I should be using. Or using my own body weight.
I hope that you never trade or resell your vehicle or even drive it on the street. What's going to happen when the bolts break or let loose and some mom with her kid in the car is driving, or you don't control it and hit the stroller in the intersection? All because you're to damn cheap to buy a quality torque wrench or pay a qualified mechanic? We need a government agency to report to when we feel people are to stupid to breed and are putting the entire population at risk.

Aren't you just as bad, or worse, than Chrysler with this blatant negligence?
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
I hope that you never trade or resell your vehicle or even drive it on the street. What's going to happen when the bolts break or let loose and some mom with her kid in the car is driving, or you don't control it and hit the stroller in the intersection? All because you're to damn cheap to buy a quality torque wrench or pay a qualified mechanic? We need a government agency to report to when we feel people are to stupid to breed and are putting the entire population at risk.

Aren't you just as bad, or worse, than Chrysler with this blatant negligence?
WOW I don't even know how to answer this. So now because I over tightened a bit too much and the corners starter to strip a bit they are going to either break or magically let loose. Instead I should pay the dealer $600 for a brake job because they are "qualified" You should spend some time at some of the chains and see how many of them use a torque wrench. I've changed brake pads on several cars before and have yet to kill any moms and kids. Thank you for your personal attack now I understand why the engineers at Chrysler decided to put the hose over the top slider pin, to avoid unqualified mechanics like me breaking or letting loose slider pins.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
In my experience, I've never heard of anti lock brakes causing breaks to simply not work, they are designed to, if they fail, simply allow brakes to be brakes. which means you can lock them up pretty hard, and go into a skid, but they still work.

This is actually the case on the car I drive now. Has anti lock brakes, the system is busted, would cost more than i paid for the car to fix, so I just drive it. I've locked up the wheels a few times till I got better tires/rims (riding with 225 wide tires vs the 195 wide, and it makes a HUGE difference in braking)

That makes me wonder if there was something else going on with your brakes...
The issue is not the brakes working they do work is the Wheel sensor sending bad signals to the ABS computer causing the ABS pump to actuate without touching the brake . I'll say it again I have a suspicion this only happens to owners of FDII's due to the 4x4 aes downhill assist program. If you have an FDII and you set it for downhill assist, the way the abs activates that the same thing that happened to me
 

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None of the links provided here are related to your claimed issue. Your claiming there was a loss of control and brakes were being applied without your input. NON of the post said that happened to them.

Sure the sensor may have failed, but non had control issues like your claiming.

So is this a common issue that needs a recall, Nope, isolated incident

So please stop, no one other than you has ever posted the results your claiming.
So why are people pulling the ABS fuses and as one poster stated "To drive without fighting the computer"
 
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