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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

Well the weather here in the UK has been bad and again its snowing so been pretty cold since I picked up Mrs. H's Patriot.

Bold choice as i choose the 2.4L Petrol in a UK market obsessed with Diesels. But I saved at least £2.5k over the nearest Deisel equivilent.

Problem is after 3 weeks and several tanks of gas later, it's got a drink problem, I don't really mind that Regular is £1.22/Litre here in the UK, what I can't accept is 27MPG average, this cannot be right???

Mrs H put £20.00 of gas in today, at £1.22.9/Litre and been to London and Back on the Motor/freeway - after 88miles the Low Fuel light is on!!!!

Now I know the MPG read out is in US Gallons so incorrect but using many Fuel Websites I make this a very poor 24MPG, she does not drive above 70MPG, she had one passenger and it was 0degrees and snowing.

To me the car is mega bad, my 525i Auto got 36 MPG the other day with cruise on at 65MPH.

The Patriot has just 20,000 miles on the clock.

What are we doing wrong or is this normal?

I would have expected at least 33MPG on the motorway at 70MPH.

Please help restore my faith as I'm affraid the car will be sold in the New Year no doubt losing me more money.

Cheers

Simon
 

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Cold affects MPG, I lose about 75-100km per tank in the winter compared to summer.
We have small tanks, 51L....summer I will get 450-500kms, winter it's 350-400kms.
Some things you can do to help....check tire pressure and make sure it's 35psi minimum...pressure drops in the cold as well, so 35psi in the summer can be quite a bit lower in the winter. You can bump it up a little bit (2-3psi) which can help MPG.
Check your air filter, they tend to get dirty pretty quick, I change mine every 20,000kms...they are only $15 or so.
What oil are you using? 5w20 is a bit better for MPG's, but might be hard to track down in EU. Failing that, synthetic 5w30 can improve MPG over it's dino counterpart.
The OEM plugs tend to be the best for MPG, stay away from platinum/iridium etc as they will lower your MPG in most cases.
Slow down a bit....65mph will give better mileage then 70mph, sometimes considerably better.
 

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Unsure if you need this piece of advice, but don't drive around with the front windshield defroster on uneccesarily. The a/c compressor will be running which is more drag on the engine, trust me..I know..
Also, if its windy out, that can hurt as well. Its not the best aerodynamic design happening.
 

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Simon - My '09 Patriot 2.4L with a manual tranny rarely breaks 30 MPG at 70MPH on the highway; more like 28 MPG.

Was there some literature or advertising in the UK that would have led you to expect 33 MPG?

As already suggested, I would check the basics - plugs, air filter, tire pressure, synthetic oil, etc...

Remember, these vehicles have the aeordynamics / drag coefficient of a brick.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Guys, I think the tips on tyres/air filter etc are really good and of course cold does impact MPG.

We dont have air/con on tis time of year.

Reading the posts you lead me to believe that a tank is at best going to get about 280 miles!!! so working that through at 122.9/litre and around £55.00 to fill up thats an average of 28MPG. Poor.

Also when the light comes on and the computer says "low fuel" how far can my wife safely travel assuming shes getting 25/28 MPG?

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Also as to why I thought it would get around 33MPG is becuase on www.autotrader.co.uk the car data linked to each advert states:

Fuel consumption (urban) 25.9 mpg
Fuel consumption (extra urban) 40.4 mpg
Fuel consumption (combined) 33.2 mpg

When you look at European cars, the Jeep is a bad buy.

But I don't want to be too hasty... as it will cost money to change.

If we only get 28MPG and my wife is doing 5,000 miles per year and petrol is 122.9/litre - how much more would I have saved from running a CRD model? As diesel is £1.269 and the CRD we used to have did 40MPG. So whats the calculation to net out the running costs?
 

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Guys, I think the tips on tyres/air filter etc are really good and of course cold does impact MPG.

We dont have air/con on tis time of year.

Reading the posts you lead me to believe that a tank is at best going to get about 280 miles!!! so working that through at 122.9/litre and around £55.00 to fill up thats an average of 28MPG. Poor.

Also when the light comes on and the computer says "low fuel" how far can my wife safely travel assuming shes getting 25/28 MPG?

Cheers
Air conditioning is tied to the defrost....so if you have it on in the winter, which most people do, it does affect MPG a bit.
Low fuel light is suppose to get you 50kms give or take, but I wouldn't try testing that to find out unless you had a gas can with you.
I know in Canada the MPG is greatly exaggerate on these at 39mpg, the US site is much more accurate of real world conditions.
 

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Guys, I think the tips on tyres/air filter etc are really good and of course cold does impact MPG.

We dont have air/con on tis time of year.

Cheers
I think I need to clarify.
Even though you have not hit any switches to purposely turn on the air conditioning, if you put your hvac setting in which it blows on the inside of your windshield, your compressor is still going to run. It doesn't even matter if you have it on the highest heat setting, its still running. Once your windshield is clean, turn it to another vent setting.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
OK get it but still, whats the point of owning a car where you're watching how you drive and what you use, not my idea of fun.

Just worked out that over a year and 4,000 miles at 28MPG we'll spend £798 on Regular (assuming it stays at £1.229/Ltr)

The 2.0CRD Diesel covering 4,000 miles at 40MPG at £126.9/Ltr would cost £576

So the diesel would save us £220 p/a but the CRD would have cost an extra £2,500 so we'd be looking at an 11yr payback...if my maths is correct?

Still very unhappy and we've decided it's back to a Citroen in the New Year.

2nd Patriot, 2nd time we've had to ditch in under a year...I think there's a message there!
 

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OK get it but still, whats the point of owning a car where you're watching how you drive and what you use, not my idea of fun.
I agree with you...theres an advertised fuel or economy rating that most people use as one of the measuring tools in selecting a vehicle, but if those ratings are only specific to ideal conditions then it really looses its integrity.
I am of the opinion that all MPG ratings for all makes work this way and its not just a Jeep Patriot thing. I agree its a joke that the rating only applies when there is a south westerly wind blowing, the barometer is rising, the stars are aligned just right, and there are no passengers because of the extra weight.
As far as the window defrost thing, thats a given..all newer vehicles operate this way.
Im surprised you didn't catch on to (what I discovered as well) the less than stellar gas mileage during your ownership period of your 1st Patriot.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
1st one was a CRD Diesel...but we were getting married in Greece and I needed an extra £10k, so it had to go.

Shame because it was a brand new black 2008 CRD with 11 miles on and achieved 38-42 no matter what you did.

My mistake, but 24-28 sounds bad, looks bad and whilst you might argue that it's only another £220 per annum, come and live in the UK its f***ing expense to as Tesco says, every little helps.

The french diesels now acheive 45-70 MPG its a huge difference.

I just worry that we'll be stuck with this Jeep as its a Petrol model, only choice will be to PX down to a £7k car as this was £8k so I face losing a grand, Yes I know thats two years of petrol, but long term this Jeep is a white elephant.
 

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The UK Evic says US but in fact is calibrated in MPG Imperial--so 27 is about right. However it is low MPG. I think I posted this before , but my CRD Pat was easily good for 40-43 MPG ( US EVIC read out in IMP).And my 2.4 Avenger with a 4 speed slush box is good for 26--33 MPG . I remember when I showed an Interest in a Petrol 2.4 Patriot my salesman said " Pete you'd hate after the CRD , they are slow & thisty" I knew what I was doing when I swapped to a Petrol Avenger but its performed way above my expectations. I just let the Auto box get on with its job & sometimes use autostick to aid downhill braking.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The UK Evic says US but in fact is calibrated in MPG Imperial--so 27 is about right. However it is low MPG. I think I posted this before , but my CRD Pat was easily good for 40-43 MPG ( US EVIC read out in IMP).And my 2.4 Avenger with a 4 speed slush box is good for 26--33 MPG . I remember when I showed an Interest in a Petrol 2.4 Patriot my salesman said " Pete you'd hate after the CRD , they are slow & thisty" I knew what I was doing when I swapped to a Petrol Avenger but its performed way above my expectations. I just let the Auto box get on with its job & sometimes use autostick to aid downhill braking.
You appear to have UK experience of the whole US car thing, do you think a) we're being hasty or b) will it be hard to move the 2.4 Patriot on?
 

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OK get it but still, whats the point of owning a car where you're watching how you drive and what you use, not my idea of fun.

Just worked out that over a year and 4,000 miles at 28MPG we'll spend £798 on Regular (assuming it stays at £1.229/Ltr)

The 2.0CRD Diesel covering 4,000 miles at 40MPG at £126.9/Ltr would cost £576

So the diesel would save us £220 p/a but the CRD would have cost an extra £2,500 so we'd be looking at an 11yr payback...if my maths is correct?

Still very unhappy and we've decided it's back to a Citroen in the New Year.

2nd Patriot, 2nd time we've had to ditch in under a year...I think there's a message there!
It seems like you get it, but you don't get it
You figured out that the CRD costs more but uses less petrol.....good start. You also figured out that the extra up-front cost of the CRD would take 11 years with your driving habits to recoup that extra petrol costs in your 2.4.
Did you plan on owning the 2.4 for 11 years? Because if you don't then you will still be saving money over the CRD version.
Now you want to dump the patriot for something better on gas.....have you worked the math on that one yet? You are ready to lose money selling it, to spend more on something with better MPG....again, in the long run its a money losing solution.....vehicles are not investments, they depreciate rather quickly, resale value should be the least of your concerns.
I have the same arguement with our Hybrid vehicles here....if the goal is to get consumers to use less gas, these should be LESS expensive then the gas guzzling counter parts. Here the Hybrid version say of a Ford Escape is close to 10K more then the gas version. Over 10 years ownership, you will never save the difference in gas, it will still cost you $5k more for those 10 years approx if you go with the hybrid. The choice is pretty simple to money conscious consumers.
 

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I feel sorry for you if you think a 4 cylinder 4x4 is terrible on fuel.

1.22 pounds a litre sounds pretty expensive tho. ours here is about $1.22AUD a litre
 

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I did the same calculations when I got my petrol Patriot. The equivalent diesel model would actually have cost £3,600 more (if you included the power chip to get the same performance as the petrol).

For me it was a no-brainer - I need to fill the tank more often but it costs less to fill with petrol than diesel. I also have £3,600 in my pocket for goodies.

I am getting around 30mpgUK and I like to drive it hard. Maybe you need to get your engine checked out?
 

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Just my humble opinion!! The Petrol Pat. in the UK is Cheap & represents great value for money . However along with this comes the downside , it is never going to be the most economical vehicle you have owned & it is never going to hold its price on the used market.The CRD is an expensive vehicle to buy new, but along with this you do benefit from better economy & higher residual values on the used market. Unlike the Land Rover Range of vehicles in the UK ( as you know from the amount on the roads , they are ten a penny!!) Jeeps are a niche' vehicle aimed at the individual few.
The upgrades have been a positive step forward, but thin body sheet steel, floppy plastic bumpers & cheap plastic interiors , just dont cut the ice with UK buyers. As far as the Pat. in the UK ins concerned it is a very small fish in a very big pond!!
Due to the price of fuel in the UK I think a great idea for the Export market, would have been to introduce a 4x4 Pat with FD1 , but powerd by the 2.0 litre Petrol engine . ( if technically possible) I know from experience that the smaller engine had more than enough power for average UK use , better economy & out of the 1.8-2.0-& 2.4 World Engines the 2.0 litre is known as the smoothest & most flexible of the bunch. OK so slightly down on HP & torque , but ideal for UK conditions.

A brand new 2.0 litre Sport FD1 would have sailed out of the showrooms , if priced at about £ 12.500--£ 13.500.

This is going to be the price of the new Dacia Duster when it arrives in UK
 

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I think I need to clarify.
Even though you have not hit any switches to purposely turn on the air conditioning, if you put your hvac setting in which it blows on the inside of your windshield, your compressor is still going to run. It doesn't even matter if you have it on the highest heat setting, its still running. Once your windshield is clean, turn it to another vent setting.
WOW, I have never heard this before.....
In canada in the winter we constantly have the air blowing on the windshield to keep the snow from turning into ice.... I've got my vents permanently set at defrost and floor so my feet keep warm and i can see where i'm going.....
We did this with our dodge sx for 7plus years as well....

am i wasting fuel or causing some harm to my performance?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I did the same calculations when I got my petrol Patriot. The equivalent diesel model would actually have cost £3,600 more (if you included the power chip to get the same performance as the petrol).

For me it was a no-brainer - I need to fill the tank more often but it costs less to fill with petrol than diesel. I also have £3,600 in my pocket for goodies.

I am getting around 30mpgUK and I like to drive it hard. Maybe you need to get your engine checked out?
I drove it to Cambridge and back today (Cambridge UK, not MA!!!) and got 29MPG and it was -4. The reado out is saying about 280 miles to a full tank, if so with running around town I can live with it, I think Mrs H might have thrashed it up the M11!!!

My brother has his own garage so I'll get it plugged in to make sure it's tip top.

You're right we're better off overall as low mileage, plus I only paid £8,000 for the car with 19,000 miles on it and its still got Jeep Warranty to late next year!

The same UK CRD model is about £10,995, so I've done the maths and whilst it looks hideous, acutally we're talking about £5-£6 a week more to run it, but £2,5k in my bank!

Mrs H just taking it to Kwik-Fit to get the tyre pressures sorted. Might eek out an extra .5MPG!!!

I'm not as pissed about it today after really looking at the figures, plus it just looks so cool and different when parked in sea of euro-jelly moulds, it's still got to convince me over the next month or so it deserves its place on my driveway!

Thanks for all the tips, love this forum!

Happy holidays
 
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