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Discussion Starter #1
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/27/politics/supreme-court-union-fees-decision/index.html

I used to be forced to be part of a union during my summer jobs from school working as a clerk at a grocery store. I thought it was ridiculous how 20 dollars a week out of my measly 200 dollar pay check was going to unions which probably could care less about me. I never got a cent back from them and with the fees they collected from me made my wage very close to minimum wage. I know this supreme court decision is only for public employers but I hope soon enough it will be for the private section too.

I think unions are a relic from the 1920s, we have many more laws than they had to protect workers in this country. I consider unions a leach on society and usually are found corrupt in how they spend money.
 

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I'm on the fence with it but you normally only hear the bad about unions and not the good. I have many family and freinds that are active in unions (plumbers, firefighters, electricians, teachers, etc) and they have reaped many benefits from their unions and employers, more so than those in other careers (even similar ones) and would never have what they would have in the private sector without their union. Anti-union folks seem to forget that most every single workplace law that are on the books are as a result of unions.
 
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I work in a heavily unionized industry. I have had two jobs in my past in which I was a union member. (teamsters and IAW) I see both the good and bad from the labor union's. I agree that we have a lot more regulation now on worker rights, discrimination, minimum wage, etc.... And, generally I feel that labor unions only protect those with the least motivation and work ethic. However, I am not sure how I feel about this ruling. On one hand, I agree that each person should not be charged by a union as a condition of employment. On the other hand lot's of people (including non union workers) benefit from union negotiated working rules and pay rates. In my current job we are a non-union "shop", but our pay scale is competitive with those of unionized "shops". If it weren't for those unions negotiating higher wages, our pay scale and benefits may not be what they are because our company wouldn't have to compete with those union shops for workers.

My grandfather was an Irish immigrant that worked in the coal mines of western PA for 2 dollars per day. He needed the union. That was long time ago. But I may have never even knew the man, had his union not stood up and made his working conditions safer.
The teamsters are still run by the Hoffa family. Yes....... that Hoffa family.....
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I'm on the fence with it but you normally only hear the bad about unions and not the good. I have many family and freinds that are active in unions (plumbers, firefighters, electricians, teachers, etc) and they have reaped many benefits from their unions and employers, more so than those in other careers (even similar ones) and would never have what they would have in the private sector without their union. Anti-union folks seem to forget that most every single workplace law that are on the books are as a result of unions.
Yeah unions did their job, now its time to retire them. The laws are created already, having unions disappear won't make the laws disappear.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I work in a heavily unionized industry. I have had two jobs in my past in which I was a union member. (teamsters and IAW) I see both the good and bad from the labor union's. I agree that we have a lot more regulation now on worker rights, discrimination, minimum wage, etc.... And, generally I feel that labor unions only protect those with the least motivation and work ethic. However, I am not sure how I feel about this ruling. On one hand, I agree that each person should not be charged by a union as a condition of employment. On the other hand lot's of people (including non union workers) benefit from union negotiated working rules and pay rates. In my current job we are a non-union "shop", but our pay scale is competitive with those of unionized "shops". If it weren't for those unions negotiating higher wages, our pay scale and benefits may not be what they are because our company wouldn't have to compete with those union shops for workers.

My grandfather was an Irish immigrant that worked in the coal mines of western PA for 2 dollars per day. He needed the union. That was long time ago. But I may have never even knew the man, had his union not stood up and made his working conditions safer.
The teamsters are still run by the Hoffa family. Yes....... that Hoffa family.....
The thing is if people really wanted to change, they'd join a union. They shouldn't be forced to join or pay dues if they don't want to. Perhaps if wages suddenly drop or work environments get bad, they could always change their mind, but until they I think a lot of people are happy working with the wages they have and don't need unions to charge them from their paycheck.
 

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What I see happening is that if and when unions disappear the laws will be re-written to roll back the union era laws. Things like that are written in history and history will repeat itself if given the opportunity.
 

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The thing is if people really wanted to change, they'd join a union. They shouldn't be forced to join or pay dues if they don't want to. Perhaps if wages suddenly drop or work environments get bad, they could always change their mind, but until they I think a lot of people are happy working with the wages they have and don't need unions to charge them from their paycheck.
That's true to an extent, part of the issue is that people are willing to deal with a lot just to not be a trouble maker. Like Unions or not but wages are 3% lower in Right To Work states, maybe there's more jobs but are more lower paid jobs better?

This is a great article showing even now the carelessness corporations have for workers.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-03-23/inside-alabama-s-auto-jobs-boom-cheap-wages-little-training-crushed-limbs

Just a quick quote
In 2014, OSHA’s Atlanta office, after detecting a high number of safety violations at the region’s parts suppliers, launched a crackdown. The agency cited one year, 2010, when workers in Alabama parts plants had a 50 percent higher rate of illness and injury than the U.S. auto parts industry as a whole. That gap has narrowed, but the incidence of traumatic injuries in Alabama’s auto parts plants remains 9 percent higher than in Michigan’s and 8 percent higher than in Ohio’s. In 2015 the chances of losing a finger or limb in an Alabama parts factory was double the amputation risk nationally for the industry, 65 percent higher than in Michigan and 33 percent above the rate in Ohio.
 

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I'm not "anti-union", BUT, as many before me here have said--it does protect those less motivated and with a poor work ethic. When promotions are based upon seniority, not productivity, that's wrong and reeks of socialism. I did once belong to the CWA (Communications Workers of America) during my short tenure with the phone company. As a new hire, I (with my military electronics training and experience) was doing work that folks who'd been there 5 years could (or would..) not do. My pay, however, didn't reflect my skills and productivity, so I have not belonged to a union since, but then as a professional, it's no longer an issue.

I think that the sweat shops of the 20's are nearly all gone, and my advice to anyone that's not happy with their job situation--complain all you want, but in the long run, be prepared to change jobs and maybe locations. Make YOUR OWN future!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
What I see happening is that if and when unions disappear the laws will be re-written to roll back the union era laws. Things like that are written in history and history will repeat itself if given the opportunity.
If it does happen, it won't happen over night, and then people can go back into unions if they want. Whats the big deal with getting rid of them now?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
That's true to an extent, part of the issue is that people are willing to deal with a lot just to not be a trouble maker. Like Unions or not but wages are 3% lower in Right To Work states, maybe there's more jobs but are more lower paid jobs better?

This is a great article showing even now the carelessness corporations have for workers.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-03-23/inside-alabama-s-auto-jobs-boom-cheap-wages-little-training-crushed-limbs

Just a quick quote
Do you have a source about your 3%? I've actually heard the opposite. Of course somewhere someplace someone is going have a
an injury, your other link didn't work for me. Just because it happened once or twice doesn't mean its widespread.
 

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Its checks and balances my friend, so long as they exist as a check and keep the balance - what is the harm of having them exist? Once anything monopolizes things never go to the best interest of the consumer, worker, etc. There is a reason we have antitrust laws on the books and unions have played the part of balancing things.
 

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Do you have a source about your 3%? I've actually heard the opposite. Of course somewhere someplace someone is going have a
an injury, your other link didn't work for me. Just because it happened once or twice doesn't mean its widespread.
Compensation costs are generally higher in parts of the country with strong union traditions. In the Midwest, for example, where unions have historically been powerful, employers pay an average of $28.15 per worker per hour—factoring in both wages and benefits—while in the South, the average is $26.32 an hour.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324296604578179603136860138

I've seen opposing numbers also and neither are probably accurate since the cost of living varies so much in the US.

Not sure why the link isn't working for you, but if you search for Alabama auto plant safety it will show up. It's less about people having accidents and more about the general ambivalence they have towards safety even with OSHA violations.

I'm also not saying that unions are perfect, there's plenty of room for improvement, but they're also not as terrible as the general population is led to believe.

In my local area unionized jobs pay anywhere from $15-30/hour while the same jobs non union are lucky to hit $12. To me it all boils down to respecting everyone, just because someone is happy to be a janitor all their life does that mean they should have to work 2 jobs to afford to live? In this area a 1 bedroom apartment costs half of a month's gross salary at minimum wage.
 

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You sound like a typical young kid that doesn't know much. Go back in history and see what people made and how they were treated before unions. Without them things will go back to the way the were. Does it sound like these companies have their workers best interest in mind or their profit margins. This lack of knowledge and giving a **** is how we have the situation we have now in the world. Unions are not perfect that is for sure but it beats the hell out of letting corporations seal your fate.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
You sound like a typical young kid that doesn't know much. Go back in history and see what people made and how they were treated before unions. Without them things will go back to the way the were. Does it sound like these companies have their workers best interest in mind or their profit margins. This lack of knowledge and giving a **** is how we have the situation we have now in the world. Unions are not perfect that is for sure but it beats the hell out of letting corporations seal your fate.
This is about having people not forced into paying for unions, not getting rid of unions entirely. If people want to be in a union let them be in a union. For me I will never join one. Unions can raise their own money without me and a bunch of others who don't want to give them money.

Unions have done their job, they just are no longer needed. I think if things ever start getting bad again people can reform their unions and protest but until that happens I think good riddance to them
 

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Discussion Starter #17
You sound like a typical young kid that doesn't know much. Go back in history and see what people made and how they were treated before unions. Without them things will go back to the way the were. Does it sound like these companies have their workers best interest in mind or their profit margins. This lack of knowledge and giving a **** is how we have the situation we have now in the world. Unions are not perfect that is for sure but it beats the hell out of letting corporations seal your fate.
I think its unrealistic to think that things will magically overnight go back to the way they where. If they start, people can form them up again, but until that happens, we really don't need them anymore.
 

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You sound like a typical young kid that doesn't know much. Go back in history and see what people made and how they were treated before unions. Without them things will go back to the way the were. Does it sound like these companies have their workers best interest in mind or their profit margins. This lack of knowledge and giving a **** is how we have the situation we have now in the world. Unions are not perfect that is for sure but it beats the hell out of letting corporations seal your fate.
This is about having people not forced into paying for unions, not getting rid of unions entirely. If people want to be in a union let them be in a union. For me I will never join one. Unions can raise their own money without me and a bunch of others who don't want to give them money.

Unions have done their job, they just are no longer needed. I think if things ever start getting bad again people can reform their unions and protest but until that happens I think good riddance to them
No one is being forced to. They have the option to work somewhere that isn't represented by a Union or pay the fair share rate which is nothing more than the administrative cost to negotiate.

I have the option to pay $60 in dues, $30 in fair share, or the option to work somewhere else. Those amounts are prorated on 13 different pay grades depending on skills.

I choose to pay the full dues since it's less than half a days pay for the month. I was called to participate in an arbitration where management stalled for 6 years on a pay increase hoping the employee would retire so I've seen 1st hand where the dues go.
 

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No one is being forced to. They have the option to work somewhere that isn't represented by a Union or pay the fair share rate which is nothing more than the administrative cost to negotiate.

I have the option to pay $60 in dues, $30 in fair share, or the option to work somewhere else. Those amounts are prorated on 13 different pay grades depending on skills.

I choose to pay the full dues since it's less than half a days pay for the month. I was called to participate in an arbitration where management stalled for 6 years on a pay increase hoping the employee would retire so I've seen 1st hand where the dues go.
If you look at the decision by the supreme court, they decided that as a public entity they can not force people to pay into supporting unions. The government has to be open to employing all people regardless on whether they support unions or not.
 

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I am fine with the government not being unionized but private sector - if wanted - should have union shops to keep the working world equal and balanced. Non union shops have to compete with union shops which helps level pay, benefits, working conditions, etc. Once those union shops are gone, competition is now gone and we get back to a time where employers are able to do whatever they want and face no consequences as all the others are doing the same as them.
 
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