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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Long story short, my engine with 146k miles blew a headgasket.
The mechanic pulled out the old motor, and put a newer one in (with 69k miles).
Everything seems fine with the engine. Fires right up, seems to have enough torque.
The issue is that the transmission no longer functions properly. Before the engine replacement, the car worked 100% and had plenty of power.
I tried to point this out to the mechanic and he insists there is nothing wrong with the car at all, and that it "drives perfectly"
But it doesn't. When you depress the gas pedal, the RPM's spike up, but there just doesn't seem to be enough power to the trans.
It has a delay in shifting and response from the accelerator.
I had the mechanic look everything over and once again, he can't see anything wrong. He doesn't work on transmissions, so I am planning on bringing it to another shop that works on trans. However, I'm curious if anyone out there has seen this before or has any other suggestions. I am at a loss, and I'm disappointed that the mechanic refuses to acknowledge my issue, even tho it appears to be separate from the engine. I don't care what the issue is or how it was caused - I just want it fixed.
The car still runs and can get me from point A to B, but I'm not entirely comfortable driving it around with this issue and I'm worried about doing further damage. Thank you
 

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What year is your Patriot? How long have you had it? Do you have the CVT? The reason I ask is two-fold.
1) The CVT normally revs high and the transmission/drivetrain catch up with it. If you're not familiar with the CVT that may feel strange.
2) If you've had this for a while and know how it should feel and this feels different now, it may be that the belt is slipping. That is very bad news. CVT fluid and filters should be changed at least every 50,000 miles. If that hasn't been done, your tranny may be done.

Long shot here, and this may be a stupid question, but did your mechanic put in an identical replacement engine? If a 2.4 was replaced with a 2.0 there would be noticeably less power and the 2.0 would rev higher to give you what power it can offer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It's a 2015, original owner. I am actually not 100% sure if it's got a CVT or not. There is no dipstick for the trans, and I've never had any issues with it, so I've never thought much about it

I dropped the car off at a transmission mechanic right away to give me a thorough diagnostic, so I can't actually check the engine at the moment but I don't see how he could of possibly put in a 2.0. He ran my VIN and found a salvaged engine that matched my car. He said it was the exact same engine only with less miles, but I suppose I just gotta take his word for it. It looks and sounds identical to what I had before, I popped the hood to inspect it and nothing stood out to me as being off. How can I even tell just from looking at it? I will definitely look into that because that would be a major issue... it never even crossed my mind that someone would screw that up. He didn't provide any paperwork regarding the engine aside from a warranty that covers it from any defects for 1 year.

What year is your Patriot? How long have you had it? Do you have the CVT? The reason I ask is two-fold.
1) The CVT normally revs high and the transmission/drivetrain catch up with it. If you're not familiar with the CVT that may feel strange.
2) If you've had this for a while and know how it should feel and this feels different now, it may be that the belt is slipping. That is very bad news. CVT fluid and filters should be changed at least every 50,000 miles. If that hasn't been done, your tranny may be done.

Long shot here, and this may be a stupid question, but did your mechanic put in an identical replacement engine? If a 2.4 was replaced with a 2.0 there would be noticeably less power and the 2.0 would rev higher to give you what power it can offer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You can get a build sheet that will tell you what you have by copying the link below into your browser and replacing the "xxxx's" with your VIN.

http://www.jeep.com/webselfservice/BuildSheetServlet?vin=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thank you, I didn't know that existed. My Latitude came stock with a 2.4L.
Would a 2.0L even work in a 4x4 Lat?? I'm beginning to get paranoid about this repair now. I'm wondering if he screwed me over on the engine... I paid quite a lot for it too
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Just to update, in case anyone is still following along. I took the car to a transmission shop right away.
He dropped the trans and found it was 3 quarts low on fluid. Still waiting on the final word, but that was the last I heard. I wonder if that may be all it is...
 

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I hope so. Hopefully nothing was damaged because of low fluid.

In my book there's a difference between "working" on transmissions and knowing when and how to check the fluid, which the mechanic who replaced the engine should know how to do.

And they certainly should have noticed if that much fluid leaked out during the engine swap.
 

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May be stupid….buuuut did the guy program the engine to transmission?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
In my book there's a difference between "working" on transmissions and knowing when and how to check the fluid, which the mechanic who replaced the engine should know how to do.

And they certainly should have noticed if that much fluid leaked out during the engine swap.
You would think, but the people I am dealing with at this garage are NOT good people... certainly not truly honest, and as I'm realizing, clearly not great mechanics either.
This was my first time doing business with them, and 100% my last. Piss-poor customer service, which has honestly been very hard for me mentally to deal with this situation. I am exhausted and fighting back utter despair... The fact that people can treat others like this and expect us to return is insane.

May be stupid….buuuut did the guy program the engine to transmission?
I have no clue. All I know is that they pulled out the old engine through the hood, and dropped in a "new" one. From what I can tell, everything is in order. When I popped the hood it looked identical to what I had in there before. The invoice doesn't specify every step that was done, and they never said anything other than "engine works great, car drives perfect". Trying to get any other info out of them is absolutely futile at this point... thankfully the transmission mechanic is a halfway decent human being and claims to have fixed my issue (I will find out in the morning when I pick it up).
 

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It's a 2015, original owner. I am actually not 100% sure if it's got a CVT or not. There is no dipstick for the trans, and I've never had any issues with it, so I've never thought much about it

I dropped the car off at a transmission mechanic right away to give me a thorough diagnostic, so I can't actually check the engine at the moment but I don't see how he could of possibly put in a 2.0. He ran my VIN and found a salvaged engine that matched my car. He said it was the exact same engine only with less miles, but I suppose I just gotta take his word for it. It looks and sounds identical to what I had before, I popped the hood to inspect it and nothing stood out to me as being off. How can I even tell just from looking at it? I will definitely look into that because that would be a major issue... it never even crossed my mind that someone would screw that up. He didn't provide any paperwork regarding the engine aside from a warranty that covers it from any defects for 1 year.
I hope I didn't get you to worrying for nothing. I'm no mechanic, just a guy that's owned a couple Patriots. My first Patriot was a 2.4 and it had an engine cover; the second is a 2014 with the 2.0 and it does not have an engine cover. The only other thing I know about the compatibility of these engines is that they are essentially the same but the 2.0 has cylinder sleeves to accommodate slightly smaller pistons. Smaller bore + smaller pistons = .4 less displacement.

If the engine starts up and runs, I think the mechanic did his job. Your tranny guy says it is seriously low on fluid so I bet that is your problem. FYI, my Patriot CVT leaked fluid. First time my dealer caought it and fixed it. The second time was when the belt started slipping (170,000 miles on it). Jeep replaced the tranny under the life-time warranty, but they said it was low on fluid when they changed it out.

Please let us know how it all pans out (pardon the pun).
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
If the engine starts up and runs, I think the mechanic did his job. Your tranny guy says it is seriously low on fluid so I bet that is your problem. FYI, my Patriot CVT leaked fluid. First time my dealer caought it and fixed it. The second time was when the belt started slipping (170,000 miles on it). Jeep replaced the tranny under the life-time warranty, but they said it was low on fluid when they changed it out.
So I just brought the car back from the transmission shop. It finally drives normally now. The engine is a 2.4, it drives very similar to how it did before the damage occurred.
They must have seen my Jeep in the lot at the trans shop nearby, because the auto shop who insisted there was nothing wrong with the car actually called me up to apologize for the mixup.
His reasoning being that the mechanic who performed the work DID check the trans fluid levels after the engine swap, however mistakenly used the wrong auto manual/guidebook. As a result he confused the levels I guess. So I am relieve to have some accountability in all this mess and that I'm not crazy or wrong in my concern for the abnormal driving conditions. In all honesty I don't even care about the details to the how/why it happened, only that it is fixed. I'm going to drive it around a few more days and see how everything plays out from here...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
OK so I've had the Patriot back for a full day and there's a couple things I've noticed that are different than my previous build:

1) the engine produces a faint whining/buzzing sound that seems to be more evident when accelerating. During idle it sounds OK. I only noticed it when I had the windows down. So I put the car in park, popped the hood, and gently pushed the accelerator and confirmed there is some kind of unusual buzzing sound present that I never heard before. I feel like this might be an older engine than 2015 too, because there is some corrosion on the top bolts (which mine also didn't have). Is this normal for some of these engines or is it something I should bring to the attention of the auto mechanic?

2) Another thing that is new to me is when I first start the car, the tach jumps to 1.5k and hovers there for maybe 30-60 seconds, then it settles down around 1k or slightly above 1k. Again, I don't believe this to be the exact engine I had before, so maybe that's just normal? But I don't remember my previous engine doing this at all. It might have jumped in RPM's for a few seconds, but settled much quicker than this one. I'm trying to just accept that fact that my car will never be the same as it once was, but as long as it's "close enough" then I can live with it, so if this is just a normal condition for some cars/engines then I'll just try and get used to it
 

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OK so I've had the Patriot back for a full day and there's a couple things I've noticed that are different than my previous build:

1) the engine produces a faint whining/buzzing sound that seems to be more evident when accelerating. During idle it sounds OK. I only noticed it when I had the windows down. So I put the car in park, popped the hood, and gently pushed the accelerator and confirmed there is some kind of unusual buzzing sound present that I never heard before. I feel like this might be an older engine than 2015 too, because there is some corrosion on the top bolts (which mine also didn't have). Is this normal for some of these engines or is it something I should bring to the attention of the auto mechanic?

2) Another thing that is new to me is when I first start the car, the tach jumps to 1.5k and hovers there for maybe 30-60 seconds, then it settles down around 1k or slightly above 1k. Again, I don't believe this to be the exact engine I had before, so maybe that's just normal? But I don't remember my previous engine doing this at all. It might have jumped in RPM's for a few seconds, but settled much quicker than this one. I'm trying to just accept that fact that my car will never be the same as it once was, but as long as it's "close enough" then I can live with it, so if this is just a normal condition for some cars/engines then I'll just try and get used to it
While your engine is new, most of the other components are original. Parts will wear out, and removing and reinstalling them is somewhat traumatic for the vehicle, much like a heart transplant for us humans. Belts & pulleys will probably never be quite the same. If the buzzing/whining gets louder then something is wearing out; if it stays the same over time then it's just an idiosyncrasy you'll have to live with. Take it easy at first and stay close to home till you're sure of it. Following my transplant analogy, you don't get a heart transplant and go play football the day you get out of the hospital. You might need a check-up, too, so I suggest you take it back to the shop that did the work for its next oil change. They'll probably want to see their work anyway.

It is not unusual for the engine to idle fast at start-up. This is normal. All my vehicles do the same thing. Fast idle can persist for several minutes in colder weather, but always for 10-15 seconds, even in summer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
While your engine is new, most of the other components are original. Parts will wear out, and removing and reinstalling them is somewhat traumatic for the vehicle, much like a heart transplant for us humans. Belts & pulleys will probably never be quite the same. If the buzzing/whining gets louder then something is wearing out; if it stays the same over time then it's just an idiosyncrasy you'll have to live with. Take it easy at first and stay close to home till you're sure of it. Following my transplant analogy, you don't get a heart transplant and go play football the day you get out of the hospital. You might need a check-up, too, so I suggest you take it back to the shop that did the work for its next oil change. They'll probably want to see their work anyway.

It is not unusual for the engine to idle fast at start-up. This is normal. All my vehicles do the same thing. Fast idle can persist for several minutes in colder weather, but always for 10-15 seconds, even in summer.
OK that's good to know. I'm keeping it local for this first week. Just doing short rides around town for now, not more than 40-45mph at any given time. The shop wants me to rack up 150 miles and then bring it back in for a re-check. The sound definitely isn't egregious. I didn't even notice it at first (probably because I was so distracted with the slipping transmission). But since that is gone I now hear the buzzing, again it was really only when i had the windows down when I first noticed. So it's not super loud and distracting at the moment, but definitely something I never heard before so naturally I am a bit concerned... I'm sure the shop is just going to tell me that it's "100% normal" and it's "working perfect" though, but I can try to bring it up and see what they say

The fast idle at startup definitely took my by surprise because it wasn't as obvious before. It definitely hangs at the 1.5k mark a lot longer than I would think, but perhaps it really is just something I need to acclimate to. It kinda bums me out that just a couple months ago I had a perfectly functioning beautiful Patriot that rarely gave me any grief, and now I have this frankenstein vehicle haha. She's just not the same... I knew it would never quite be what it was, but I was hoping it wouldn't bother me as much as it does.
 

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Years and years ago when I first got my ‘10 Riot, it used to stay at high RPM’s when starting it. One day I ran over a cinder block, slammed onto the cinder block, and it never happened again.

Long story short, it’s probably nothing as my engine is still running strong.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Another thing I'm a bit concerned about is that they filled the Radiator with a generic Autozone "yellow" colored coolant. I provided them with a bottle of MOPAR 10-year coolant that I bought direct from the dealer, however they didn't get the memo and just added the autozone stuff instead. When I mentioned it to them, they said they use the AZ brand coolant in all the cars that come thru because it's universally compatible. According to the Patriot manual, it is very specific about NOT using globally compatible coolants, and only OAT (organic additive technology) should be used. Any thoughts on this? Considering the reason for my engine failure in the first place was a blown headgasket, I'm somewhat more paranoid about the cooling system
 

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Years and years ago when I first got my ‘10 Riot, it used to stay at high RPM’s when starting it. One day I ran over a cinder block, slammed onto the cinder block, and it never happened again.

Long story short, it’s probably nothing as my engine is still running strong.
I hope this post wasn't meant as advice!!! :eek:
 

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Another thing I'm a bit concerned about is that they filled the Radiator with a generic Autozone "yellow" colored coolant. I provided them with a bottle of MOPAR 10-year coolant that I bought direct from the dealer, however they didn't get the memo and just added the autozone stuff instead. When I mentioned it to them, they said they use the AZ brand coolant in all the cars that come thru because it's universally compatible. According to the Patriot manual, it is very specific about NOT using globally compatible coolants, and only OAT (organic additive technology) should be used. Any thoughts on this? Considering the reason for my engine failure in the first place was a blown headgasket, I'm somewhat more paranoid about the cooling system
I agree. This isn't the good old days. So much stuff is proprietary these days, and consequently not compatible. However, if the system was thoroughly (and I mean THOROUGHLY) flushed, it might not matter. Your mechanic knows more than I do, and maybe some coolants are compatible. Personally, I wouldn't take the risk. For now I suggest you keep a close eye on the temp gauge.
 

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Another thing I'm a bit concerned about is that they filled the Radiator with a generic Autozone "yellow" colored coolant. I provided them with a bottle of MOPAR 10-year coolant that I bought direct from the dealer, however they didn't get the memo and just added the autozone stuff instead. When I mentioned it to them, they said they use the AZ brand coolant in all the cars that come thru because it's universally compatible. According to the Patriot manual, it is very specific about NOT using globally compatible coolants, and only OAT (organic additive technology) should be used. Any thoughts on this? Considering the reason for my engine failure in the first place was a blown headgasket, I'm somewhat more paranoid about the cooling system
There are documented problems when you mix OAT and Hoat coolants (gelling, etc.). I'm not sure about OAT and IAT (old green).

The MOPAR coolant is alleged to be an OAT coolant without 2EHA. "Most" universal coolants are OAT and many advertise having 2EHA. I could not find any data sheets on the Autozone product. For me, it boils down to the 2EHA component. I am quoting this following information from Bob-Is-The-Oilguy: "this is what an sae article linked says about it. SAE International - mobility engineering There are other similar descriptions of 2eha that have been in Motor Magazine articles on AF types. "Neither Chrysler nor Fiat has released the complete composition formula for their antifreezes. They reportedly are cocktails of three organic acids, featuring sebacate, but no 2-ethylhexanoate (2-EHA). The latter is a cost-effective but controversial additive that softens plastics, particularly silicone, leading to leaks from affected sealing materials, which means that silicone cannot be used in gaskets, O-rings, and hoses if the antifreeze contains 2-EHA."

Most modern engines are "supposed" to be constructed with composite materials that are 2-EHA resistant. I personally don't have enough data in this case to take the risk. However, I DID install Ruthenium spark plugs in my Pat and currently have a universal transmission fluid in it, which I did collect enough data to feel safe about.......but I digress.

Flush it out, replace with the correct fluid, and sleep well at night.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
There are documented problems when you mix OAT and Hoat coolants (gelling, etc.). I'm not sure about OAT and IAT (old green).

Flush it out, replace with the correct fluid, and sleep well at night.
Thank you for that info!
I'm pretty annoyed that they didn't get my message about the gallon of undiluted MOPAR coolant I left for them, right in the front seat. But they claim they've "never had an issue" with the yellow AZ stuff, and they use it in every car that comes in for that sort of service. So far the temp gauge has been right where it should be (just under halfway).
I'm quite hesitant to do any more tinkering with this vehicle... a coolant flush on these is not the easiest thing. I did it earlier this year and it may have been what caused my original engine failure - although it's also quite possible the engine was failing much earlier due to it burning a lot of oil, and eventually blowing a gasket. I'll drive it a bit more and see how I feel after putting on a few more miles...

What is the benefit to Ruthenium plugs??
 
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