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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys,
First time here, need some help/info/advice (and I hope you don't mind stupid questions:):)
2014 Pat , 4WD, with CVT/with Off-Rd Crawl , 137k
Transmission died on me when driving. Engine light came on. Had a couple of times transmission overheated light on before (last year).
I'm thinking of replacing it myself (junk yard tranny). My question is: can I swap my CVT with 6-speed auto (they are cheaper and I don't care to have CVT anyway, use my Pat for getting around town, local shopping, appointments etc).
Anybody did that kind of swap? Was it straightforward old out/new in?
I would appreciate any advice and/or comments.
Thank you!
Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I would beware of a junkyard tranny. A failed CVT may be why a Patriot (or a Compass or a Caliber) is in the junkyard. Many CVTs didn't get the maintenance they needed because the suggested intevals in the owners manual are inadequate. A re-manufactured transmission should come with a decent warranty. Then do the maintenance twice as often as the owners manual says. It should take you the distance.
Thank you Ignatz for your suggestion! Makes sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
@Peter P, Ignatz raises a good point on junk yard transmissions.

Furthermore, it has to be from another FDII (due to gearing) and not many were made. Finding a good donor ( low mileage, later year, accident not affecting transmission ) Patriot or FDII Compass might be hard to come by.
@Peter P, Ignatz raises a good point on junk yard transmissions.

Furthermore, it has to be from another FDII (due to gearing) and not many were made. Finding a good donor ( low mileage, later year, accident not affecting transmission ) Patriot or FDII Compass might be hard to come by.
Hi Sandstone,
What's FDII?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi Peter, welcome to the group. Sorry to hear about your problem. It's unfortunate that the manual is so misleading in regards to the CVT service interval. The CVT needs it's fluid and 2 filters replaced at least every 50-60k miles, and when that's not done, well... bad things happen to them. There is a thread one here (you can search for it in the "Search Community" box above, or maybe someone will drop a link to it) where someone did swap a 6 speed in place of their CVT. I don't think it was one with the FD2 package like yours though, and it definitely was not an easy swap. If I remember correctly, the TCU, some wiring, and a bunch of other stuff needed to be swapped too. So, it's probably possible, but unless you're going to do it yourself and have a lot of spare time on your hands, I really doubt it'll be worth it.
I understand FD2 package is CVT with crawl off road option. correct?
Yes, not so much free time on my hands to commit to the swap((
Thank you for your comments!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi Peter, unfortunately the 6 speed A/T won't swap directly into the FDII due to the FDII using different differential gearing.

Along with all the other things that would have to be changed, you'd have to re-gear the rear diff or replace it with one from the 6 speed AT donor vehicle.
I'm reading all responses and getting clear pic of my options.
Thank you guys for your help!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hi Peter, welcome to the group. Sorry to hear about your problem. It's unfortunate that the manual is so misleading in regards to the CVT service interval. The CVT needs it's fluid and 2 filters replaced at least every 50-60k miles, and when that's not done, well... bad things happen to them. There is a thread one here (you can search for it in the "Search Community" box above, or maybe someone will drop a link to it) where someone did swap a 6 speed in place of their CVT. I don't think it was one with the FD2 package like yours though, and it definitely was not an easy swap. If I remember correctly, the TCU, some wiring, and a bunch of other stuff needed to be swapped too. So, it's probably possible, but unless you're going to do it yourself and have a lot of spare time on your hands, I really doubt it'll be worth it.
Great group!
Thank you for all your input!
Will update you all about the outcome. Unfortunately all is put aside since I broke my wrist (playing tennis!!) a month ago.
I'll be back soon:):)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
FDII was a 4wd option package. You would need to get a compatible transmission with the option package your Patriot was built with. I believe the 6th digit is for the transmission, but you might want to check with a dealer to be sure. The below chart is for a 2007 so being a 2014 yours may be different, but I expect the sequence/position would be the same. I lifted the chart from a post in this thread: Patriot VIN: Decoder that gives the Sequence Numbers...

This is the only chart I could find. There are also VIN decoders on line.

I hope this is helpful


View attachment 96834
Found the decoder, yes, my transmission is G.
Thank you,
Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi guys,
I was in a quiet mode...my wrist is better now but 11 screws and a plate implanted take time to heal((
But...always a but...as I was thinking about my options to fix/swap/rplace my transmission, I found the wrecked 2013 Pat on Copart auction, 10 miles form my home. Had not much time to ask for advice or do research, dove into it and bought it. So the situation now is as follows:
My 2014 Pat's transmission died at 137k. I have 2.4 VVT engine, 4x4. Transmission is CVT FDII. (build sheet says: Cont.Var. w/Off-Rd Crawl Ratio Trans )
I bought 2013 Pat (side crashed, Limited, nice package) with 60K, same 2.4 VVT engine, 4x4, and CVT transmission looks like FDII, (build sheet says:
Continuously Variable Transaxle II
AutoStick (R) Automatic Transmission ).

My reasoning was: the final cost of the car after the auction was 3K, for almost that price I will get low mileage CVT transmission from the junkyard (if they don't lie about the mileage though!)
My 2014 is really basic (manual windows, door locks...), so for $3k beside obvious engine with the transmission, I can also swap a few things like doors (my wife swiped the left doors against the lamp pole:):), radio with nav, leather seats with heating/power etc and I can sell a few items (wheels, computers and whatever...) to recover some $.
Outcome should be Pat with less then half my mileage (on the engine and transmission) for $3K, nice bottle of whisky for a friend who lets me use his yard and all tools needed, and yes...a lot of my work:):). I'm pretty mechanically inclined, never did such a big job though.
Now, a few questions for a fellow fanatics who like challenges))
1) Is the wiring in my old car already present to simply swap my 2014 doors with manual windows with donor doors with power windows or I have to run wires?
2) My shifter in 2014 looks different (has L), the shifter in 2013 has D with + and -) . Not sure how to understand this: both are CVT FDII, what's the difference then? Why different shifter?
3) as by above, does it mean there are two different rear differentials?
4) What else do I need/can/should swap (besides engine+transmission, computers)? Maybe axles, differential?
5) The donor vehicle has a remote start -nice to have during NY winters. What should I take take out of the donor to install in my Pat to have this feature? Where is this module?
6) What diagnostic comp and software would you suggest (preferably for Windows)?
7) Can you give me the links to service manuals for both 2013 1nd 2014 Patriots?
8) Any suggestions? What else should I pay attention to?

It's a long story and I know you guys are busy, have not much time to read it, even less time to respond, but I also know you are cool bunch of duds and I would really appreciate any help/comments/ advice or just some encouraging words.
And I promise to keep you posted on the process and the results.
Thank you verrry muchhhh!
Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hi Peter, glad you're on the mend. :)

The two transmissions, Cont.Var. w/Off-Rd Crawl Ratio (FDII) vs. Continuously Variable Transaxle II w. Auto Stick (FDI) have different differential gearing and PCM programming (simulated low range / off-road mode in the FDII vs. Auto Stick, etc.).


View attachment 96958


I don't have a 2013 service manual, but the 2014 manual is here:
Thank you Sandstone,
Every bit of info is very appreciated.
I may still bother you in the future))
Best,
Peter
Hi Peter, glad you're on the mend. :)

The two transmissions, Cont.Var. w/Off-Rd Crawl Ratio (FDII) vs. Continuously Variable Transaxle II w. Auto Stick (FDI) have different differential gearing and PCM programming (simulated low range / off-road mode in the FDII vs. Auto Stick, etc.).


View attachment 96958


I don't have a 2013 service manual, but the 2014 manual is here:

Thank you Sandstone!
Every bit of information is very appreciated.
I hope you don't mind to be bothered again in the future))
Best,
Peter
They are NOT the same and NOT interchangeable. Autostick is not FDII. You may be able to make it work though.


Maybe? From working on my Pat, I've found that it is surprisingly "plug & play". I don't have any first hand knowledge of wiring to the doors, but if I had to guess, i'd say that the wiring harness TO the doors are the same between all trim levels, and just the wiring IN the doors is different. So I'd guess that it might be as easy as swapping the doors and programming the computer to see them.

They are NOT both FDII. Autostick and FDII are mutually exclusive. You will need to swap the shifter and bezel over.

Yes. The RDU (rear end) will need to be swapped too. FDII has a lower gearing than the other.

PTU (transfer case), RDU (rear end)

I don't know where the wireless start module is, but besides that you'll also need the WCM


Here's a link to the '14 manual. Should be the same for 13.

You will be losing the FDII, but if you don't care about off-road ability then this doesn't really matter. If you swap over the entire drivetrain and all of the computers/modules/radio/instrument cluster/etc, then you shouldn't actually need to program anything, since all that stuff from the donor vehicle is already programmed to work together already.

You've got yourself quite a project there, more than I would ever attempt, good luck with it! This forum is a good source of info for you.
Thank you mr_et2!
Thank you for your time, knowledge, and advice. Much appreciated!
I hope I'm not head over my heels and this project will see the completion (being recently retired helps:).
I will keep you guys posted on the progress.
And I hope you will be able to share some wisdom if I get stuck in the project.
Best regards,
Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
While waiting for my wrist to heal, I just ordered Appcar software (license for 2 VINs -my car and donor) and OBDlink EX interface they recommend. I will scan both trucks for any fault codes before starting to disconnect all parts. This way if something goes wrong during the swap, I will know it's my fault not the part/parts I use; it'll make easier looking for the cause.
Thanks again for your advice gentlemen!
Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hi guys,
Unfortunately my wrist is not good enough to take on my big swap project yet (physical therapy 2x week).
So for now, I take advantage of my donor 2013 Pat sitting in the yard and upgrade my base 2014 Pat.
I swapped 3 doors (plug and play)-and I have now power windows, power, heated mirrors. Front seats also swapped (power -working, heat not tested yet). Donor has a power door lock and remote start - I hope to switch wireless control module and get them to work (Hopefully replacing the lock and reprogramming the key with Appcar will be sufficient. My donor has only 1 key, will have to buy 1 more and program it). My plan is to swap nice touch screen media display-the question though: I know there is a code needed to have it work-how can I get this code?
Any advice will be appreciated:)
Will update you all on my progress.
Thank you!
 

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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Little update:
The wrist is better, joints stiff though((
The 2013 donor's cab is completely gutted out to the metal. Doors, liftgate, fenders, bumpers, even glass removed too. The engine/transmission is disconnected on the top and front side. When the rain stops I will procede to the next step : removing axles, cat/exhaust, mounts, differential, and basically it will be ready to be pulled out. Then deep breath and will jump into disconnecting my 2014 engine/transmission. My major concern is that the main body harness may be different, so unfortunately it could add a week or two to my project (if swapping it is necessary).
Will keep you posted.
And in the mean time if anybody needs something from my 2013 Pat Limited, pls let me know.
Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Gentlemen (and Ladies:):)
The weather is not cooperating and work schedule neither but a little update on my project:
2013 Pat Donor is empty: cabin stripped to the bare metal, axles, drive shaft, differential, engine/transmission, hubs, exhaust, rotors, harnesses all removed. Tomorrow I'll start disconnecting engine/transmission of my 2014 Pat Recipient and will be looking into engine harness to see if it's different than Donor's. The plan is to replace all necessary sensors, electronic modules, and computer with the ones from the Donor to avoid any programming conflicts with the hardware I'm going to replace (engine/transmission, drive shaft, differential).
Please keep your fingers crossed to help me complete the project before the winter comes:):)
Will keep you posted on the progress.
Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Peter!!
Bless your heart man!! I am SO happy to have found this thread....as I am toying with the possibility that I may need to follow suit and attempt to tackle my 2008 pat. I will be following alongside!!
Hi lacymae,
Keep in mind that i'm 1955 not 1988 which means i retired and work part time only))
This takes a lot of time but also worth noting that my "garage" is under the sky so i'm depending on the weather and i spent a lot of time stripping the donor totally to the bare bones (planning on selling most parts).
Best,
Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Hi everyone,
Update on my swap project:
Weather/time constrictions related delays but moving steady forward.
Donor completely empty, engine/transmission disconnected and ready to be taken out (waiting for axle seals, transmission filters and pan gasket, drive shaft seal, sparks plugs, oil and air filters, serpentine belt, bolts and nuts). My 2014 recipient status: replaced dash harness to accommodate all under dash modules (4x4, stability, transmission, safety) and installed power converter, the remote start, compass, and communication modules, as well as the ignition lock. Reinstalled dash and installed donor's radio, dash Boston speakers. Next step (rain in the forecast:(:( is to take the roofliner down and cut the new opening to accommodate the garage opener and mic module to be used with the donor's A-pillar harness and to install donor's smart rear view mirror (with light sensor etc). It will allow me to install the harness connecting to GPS antenna too.
2014 engine/transmission is also completely disconnected and was ready to be taken out today but Nicole reached me and poured a lot of rain on Long Island((.
Also 2014 undercarriage is ready to have donor's differential, half axles, main drive shaft, exhaust, shocks, knuckles installed.
Still quite a road ahead of me but I see a light in the tunnel finally.
Gave up on replacing the main harness (seems it will not be necessary, and I don't really need the tail gate speakers, still there is a chance the harness to amplifier will be compatible and I could hook up to it my donor's sub woofer though:):)
That's all for today!
Have a great weekend!
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Guys, and Galls:):)
I see the light in the tunnel! Rear end is done, drive shaft with differential, exhaust, installed. The engine and transmission is in, mounts tighten. Pass side of the engine is all hooked up, driver's side started. I kept my transmission oil cooler set up, so I installed it on my donor's engine/transmission. Cabin is almost done (need to hook up the shifter and reinstall the center console).
Weather permitting by the end of the week I will be ready to start pouring fluids in (brakes, steering, AC, engine pan gasket/oil/filter, trans pan gasket/oil/filters, diffrential). Last week was pretty cold so it slowed me down a bit.
Probably beginnig of Dec I will get drunk before turning the key for the first time:):) So many things could go wrong that I'm really nervous about what's going to happen.

Different subject though: Not sure if any of you used MoparPartsGiant for your Mopar parts needs. I did. And I'm sorry I did. Stay away!!! Liers, scammers, thieves! After 21 days of calling, emailing them about my order, of which last 5 days there was a bullshit USPS tracking number with "label created" status which was the last straw. I canceled the order, called my bank to dispute the CC charge. Requested refund, ordered parts somewhere else. Suddenly the parts arrived (one exhaust bolt missing and charged for) and they are saying they have to charge me 20% restocking fee for the return because "it's my fault that I haven't canceled my order within their "cancellation period of 3 days'!! And they are refusing the refund all together for smaller items (below $8) which amounted to over $50. Out of $213 I paid, I will get around $110 back (if I'm lucky)!
Stay away!
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Oh, I forgot: Opened the pass rear molding/C pillar, and there was neither the harness for the amplifier, nor the amplifier under the seat:( So my nice Boston Acustics subwoofer and big amp is not going to be heard in my Pat)).
Will keep you all posted on my progress.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Update:
It's like Artemis launch...waiting for the right weather))
All fluids in, brakes bled, ready for turning the key. I haven't put fenders , bumper, fascia etc on yet...just in case I need to research the problems)).
Looks like "The Key Ceremony" is happening tomorrow.
Again, you will be first to know how it went.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
The key was turned...
the engine started like a dream!
But, yes, always a BUT:(:(
The heater is blowing cold air but the cooling system is still burping air, so it should resolve but itself hopefully soon.
I replaced every and each module except ABS pump (I think I forgot about it) and instrument cluster (i thought my old one is cleaner...Yes, i Know , kind of stupid!)
So i got faulty codes : missmatch -ABS (C2206) and CCN -cabin cluster nod.
Stability control light was up and not responding to the button, the steering wheel buttons not working properly (some). 4WD (U0423) control light on, transmission light on, air bag, seat belts on.
I replaced (horrible access to the pump) ABS pump hoping to resolve the mismatch code and 4WD. Unfortunately only mismatch is gone now. Put apart dashboard to replace the instrument cluster -steering wheel buttons work. Now need to bleed the brakes again. Remote start is not working, neither remote door lock. I found out in the service manual that remote start is activated when the car is driven "over 45 mph" . Sounds stupid but I will try.
Also I need to program the key (only one came with the car).
Power locks work inside the car (except for pass door-where aftermarket actuator from ebay is installed).
Pass seat is not installed yet, air bag light will disappear when it's done.
I need to play more with the car software to double check on the settings.
Finally i got pretty far with the car systems. I think the 4WD could be a problem because of transmission fluid not at proper level yet (will fill it when bleeding brakes too). Car is still on the cinder blocks but I put it into gear already to see if the transmission is switching gears - looks fine.
Snow is coming... i need to resolve 4WD issue and put bumper, fascia, fenders back on and take the car for wheel alignment.
Will keep you posted on the progress (family matters taking me for a week to europe, so I pray for snow to be delayed in new york:):)
 
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