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Let's remove the morals, personal beliefs, religion, non-religion, statistical poles and opinions from the arguement and talk about something we can all see eye to eye on....MONEY.
Married people pay more taxes. Look it up. That's why the govt is for gay marriage. More revenue. The real winners to gay marriage aren't gays, it's the government and divorce lawyers who just doubled their clientelle.
Quite the opposite. When you are married you can file your taxes on a joint return and get tax breaks. That's one of the main reasons why gay couples want to be able to get married.
 

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The order of error in the belief that the earth is 6000 years old is like believing that North America is 15 yards wide.

It's not a question of how perfect the accuracy of carbon dating is. It's a question of how inaccurate the opposing beliefs are.
I ask you to give this a read:
http://www.truthingenesis.com/2013/01/03/carbon-dating-flaws-doesnt-carbon-dating-disprove-the-bible/

The bible also says the earth is flat, and religious folks fought for centuries to defend that stance. When Columbus sailed away from Spain into the Atlantic, the Christian folks thought he fell off the earth when they could no longer see the ships.

Then when finally it became obvious the earth was round and they could no longer defend that stance, they insisted the earth was the center of the universe and that all the planets and stars revolved around the earth. They then executed scientists who proved through scientific theory that the earth actually revolved around the Sun.

But they finally came around, because in 1991 the church finally admitted that the earth does indeed revolve around the Sun.

Maybe in a few hundred years they will admit that the earth is not 6000 years old. I wonder how many people today still believe the world is flat. After all, it still says so in the bible. Phrases like "the end of the earth", and "the corners of the earth". The earth does not have ends or corners, it's round. Or that god sits "above the earth".

I guess once they took photographs from outer space, that theory pretty much became no longer believable.
Isaiah 40:22 describes the Earth as round. Opposing theories to the Bible say that "round" implies round and flat like a pancake, not spherical like it actually is. Ask anyone what shape the Earth is and the answer you'll likely get is "round", not "spherical". Sphere is implied with the answer of "round". When talking about corners of the Earth, it is talking about all ends, all parts, its entirety...not that it is actually square.
 

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I find humor in that comic due to the truth within it. You can love your fellow human and yet not condone their actions, but if you judge out of hate, you are subject to the same damnation as if you did the action yourself without repentance or change in your heart.
Read this one more time and then go back and read your response to me. Which way is it? In the church you attend, how many man and woman couples have been married that are not "believers"? How is their marriage any different from any other non-beleiver's marriage? If the parties in the marriage are not beleivers, what difference does their gender make? I never said I agree that the marriages are equal in the eys of God. But I do not purport to see through the eyes of God. The life, death, and resurrection of Jesus broke the laws of Abraham and formed a new covenant between God and man. That new covenant is based on compasion, mercy, grace, and forgiveness. Not threats, fear, and vengeance.
If you truly belive that your marriage is a covenant with God, and a marriage between two homosexuals is not, what difference does it make to you? How does it take anything away from your marriage? Not Judging means exactly that. Just because I don't care if they get married doesn't mean I don't know right from wrong under God's law. Just that I beleive that each will have to answer for their own transgressions. And I beleive I have enough to answer for from my own life that I don't feel the need to get involved with worrying about the transgressions of others.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Oh noes ..... a religion (not marriage) debate .... RUNNNN!!


Oh and P.S.

 

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Discussion Starter #45
And back on topic.

 

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Oh and of the 33 remaining states it appears New Mexico and Oregon will be the next to take it up and possible allow gay marriage. Next on the slate for 2016 are Arizona, Colorado, Michigan, Nevada and Ohio.
 

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Indeed todde - but you know, every christian denomination (the thousands of them) all claim to be right and the absolute authority on the subject.
I think you may be overstating a bit. However, speaking from the viewpoint of a sales manager, I wouldn't want people selling my product who didn't believe in it, and didn't think it was the best. "Hey, wanna buy my stuff? Its about the same as anyone else's . . . maybe I can be a little cheaper." With a sales pitch like that I'd want him working for my competitor!

However back in reality, 99.98% of the world's population thinks otherwise.
I'd like to see your source on that statistic. Everyone I've ever met, and I expect most of the rest of world's people are heavily biased in favor of their own viewpoint. Its only a few places where tolerance is actually esteemed, and in North America, it usually means "tolerance for absolutely anyone and everyone . . . who agrees with me." Worse, it seems those who espouse tolerance are the same ones who call everyone else bigots.
 

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Thats true - every man made religion on the face of this earth always has been and always will be a business and part of keeping their business in order is to ensure all of its workers (members) are 100% conforming (brainwashed) to their ideals.

I made that statistic up (clever hey) but I don't know your modern sub denomination but even within that there is certain to have folks against that logic.
 

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Which way is it? In the church you attend, how many man and woman couples have been married that are not "believers"?
None to my knowledge. Engaged couples attend marriage counseling and their faith status is evaluated at that time. Why would one wish to have a covenant with God in marriage if they don't have faith, or at the very least, on the path to finding our Savior?

But I do not purport to see through the eyes of God. The life, death, and resurrection of Jesus broke the laws of Abraham and formed a new covenant between God and man. That new covenant is based on compasion, mercy, grace, and forgiveness. Not threats, fear, and vengeance.
You can get a glimpse of life through God's eyes by His word and the life of Jesus Christ, thus you can see how to live your life. Proverbs 14: 26-27 (among others) shows that fear of God is a good thing. God is love, he doesn't punish out of spite or hate. It's like the relationship of a parent and child. If you are a parent, you know that you punish your children for wrongs out of love to make them a better person. The children should fear their parents in that way so as to stay on the right path.

If you truly belive that your marriage is a covenant with God, and a marriage between two homosexuals is not, what difference does it make to you? How does it take anything away from your marriage? Not Judging means exactly that. Just because I don't care if they get married doesn't mean I don't know right from wrong under God's law. Just that I beleive that each will have to answer for their own transgressions. And I beleive I have enough to answer for from my own life that I don't feel the need to get involved with worrying about the transgressions of others.
It makes a difference to me because I don't think anyone should have to face eternity in hell. I try my very best to love people, so based on my beliefs, I would very much like to see them repent and spend eternity in Heaven instead. Everyone does have to answer for their own transgressions, but would I not be a bad person if I didn't try to help them see the right path and help them get saved? If they choose to ignore it, that is their freedom, such as God gives all of us. Worrying about others is a good thing, nobody should like to see bad things happen to other humans.
 

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Too many to quote here, but on the issue of biblical accuracy, things can be true without being literal. I view the bible as the source of truth from which I grow my faith. Much like a vegetable grows in my garden -- it draws its food and water from the soil, and produces for me a delicious and nutritious zucchini lets say. So if you are what you eat, and the zucchini eats dirt, then why not just go have a spoonful of dirt? There's a lot of stuff in that garden I don't want to eat: like fertilizer and manure, rocks and insects. But when filtered through those amazing little roots, stems and leaves, I can end up with something rather satisfying. Faith grows that way, too.

The Christian Bible is a collection of spiritual insights span 600 years at the least, and maybe 4 times that -- certainly that and more if we consider the oral traditions that were included. Certainly it is not consistent, because each of the writers spoke to their time and from their experience. The task for the serious reader (neither the critics nor the quoters) is to understand what made the writer produce the document they did, and what sort of underlying truth we can draw from it.

As my 1st grade teacher used to say, "Put on your thinking caps," then she'd adjust her imaginary hat and pretend to tie it under her chin. Somewhere between the blind faith of the true believers and the intellectual laziness of the skeptics, there is truth waiting to be uncovered. :notworthy:
 

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So god loves everyone and wants everyone to be happy right?
So god approves of gay marriage - got it.
 

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You can get a glimpse of life through God's eyes by His word and the life of Jesus Christ, thus you can see how to live your life. Proverbs 14: 26-27 (among others) shows that fear of God is a good thing. God is love, he doesn't punish out of spite or hate. It's like the relationship of a parent and child. If you are a parent, you know that you punish your children for wrongs out of love to make them a better person. The children should fear their parents in that way so as to stay on the right path.
I see what you mean....just the other day my brother disciplined my nephew by turning him into a pillar of salt. Then he went around the neighborhood and killed all the first born children, unless their doors were marked with macaroni and cheese. Clearly though, this was done because of my Brother's love for his child, and all of the children in the neighborhood.

FYI, my Nephew does not FEAR his father, he respects him. I never feared my father, I also respected him. Fear vs respect is a huge difference...HUGE.
 

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Oh the ignorance of this conversation...how about we agree to disagree, throw this thread into the abyss (like the last religion thread I was involved in), and then call it a day? ;)

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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I see what you mean....just the other day my brother disciplined my nephew by turning him into a pillar of salt. Then he went around the neighborhood and killed all the first born children, unless their doors were marked with macaroni and cheese. Clearly though, this was done because of my Brother's love for his child, and all of the children in the neighborhood.
Is the sarcasm to mask the lack of any substance in your retort?

FYI, my Nephew does not FEAR his father, he respects him. I never feared my father, I also respected him. Fear vs respect is a huge difference...HUGE.
When referring to other humans in the English language, yes, there is a difference. The Hebrew word for "fear" doesn't quite translate the same. Said word more implies the additional meanings of to stand in awe of, to reverence, honor and respect. In that context, fear is respect.
 
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