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Discussion Starter #1
So this isn't my first post but it is only my second...
My son has a 2008 Jeep Patriot we bought from a friend of mine who had just bought it but not done much to it. When we first got it, it would run, but would loose power and stall. We also had issues with the shift cable and the passenger side head light wont work (even with a new bulb). The friend I bought it from had just changed the alternator because the battery wasn't charging. Since then, we have: Changed the spark plugs, ignition coils, starter, and battery terminal connections, along with a repair (new bushing) for the shifter cable. I have inspected all the fuses and all are good. I also pulled out the TIPM and opened it and inspected it - all looked good. I cleaned all the connections with spray suitable for sensitive electronics and reinstalled the TIPM. I pulled the relay box and noticed one relay had corroded and when I attempted to pull it out the knife broke off in the relay connection. So I disconnected that relay from the box and wired it separately with a new relay outside the box. Yesterday, I also inspected and cleaned the wire two harnesses that come down out of the bottom of the TIPM
I replaced the relay that was broken off - I had to wire it in outside the box since the old relay knives were corroded into the slot in the box...
So far, I AM STILL HAVING THE SAME PROBLEMS WITH THE PATRIOT so frustrated.... The most significant problem seems to be whenever I switch on the rear wiper the interior console goes blank and the engine stalls and has no power. Any other time the car seems to start OK now and runs ok as long as I don't run that rear wiper. I purchased a computer and this is what it is showing me:
TCM (Transmission Control Module): 6 DTCs:
1/6: P0826: Up/Down Shift Switch Circuit;
2/6: P1723: Lock Up/ Select Control Circuit;
3/6: P0717: Input Shaft Speed Sensor 1 Circuit - No Signal;
4/6: P0722: Output Shaft Speed Sensor Circuit - No Signal;
5/6: P0721: Output Shaft Speed Sensor Circuit Performance;
6/6: P0526: 1) Battery System Voltage Low; 2) Battery Low; 3) Battery Low
CCN (Cabin Compartment Node): 2 DTCs:
1/2: B2374: Washer Switch Input Circuit;
2/2: U0141: Lost Communication With IPM (FCM/TIPM)
Also seeing the Electronic Throttle Control alarm on the dash light up...

I have disconnected the battery a couple times since I did a reset, so I am presuming U0141 may be the result of that and not a real issue - I will verify that. B2374 seems to point to a possible link with a short or something that maybe is related to the TCM errors caused by a common short or another relay issue maybe?? I am stumped... The wiring in this vehicle appears to be a mess.... I am going to reinspect the relay box again and also try to reset the vehicle by disconnecting the battery and shorting the two connections to discharge any power in the vehicle. These ongoing wiring issues associated with appears to be poor design/placement is quite frustrating... Seems like we fix one thing and another surfaces... Any advice or past experience with similar symptoms is greatly appreciated!!! Thanks,
 

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Wow, you've got your hands full! I totally agree with you about poor design/placement. I don't think they could have picked a worse place to put that relay box if they tried, and no weather sealing on it is pretty unforgivable. I've had my share of headaches with that. I don't think I can be very helpful, but I would check the connector to the TCM and definitely check the grounds in the engine bay... they're well known for looking good but being bad, so it's probably best to just cut off the ring terminals and replace them. That way you'll know they're good for sure.
 

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If it runs fine until the rear wiper is used, I'd check for a short in the wiring harness from the TIPM (c6, pin 5) to the rear wiper motor. If not that possibly a bad tipm or some other module.
Unless you have a good bi-directional scanner and can see what's going on with live data, might save time and headaches to take it in for a diagnostic.

93484
 

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Another thing that just came to mind, on some vehicles (Patriot and Caliber) the main control cable from the transmission had corrosion/disintegration from battery acid dripping down from the battery tray, causing all kinds of transmission errors.


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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for all the great info and suggestions on direct the hunt! I actually disconnected cleaned and reconnected a few of the wire harnesses on the driver side under the TIPM and it seems to have eliminated the problems I described previously. Still have a few things to figure out but it appears to be wiring issues for sure.
 

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Wow, you've got your hands full! I totally agree with you about poor design/placement. I don't think they could have picked a worse place to put that relay box if they tried, and no weather sealing on it is pretty unforgivable. I've had my share of headaches with that. I don't think I can be very helpful, but I would check the connector to the TCM and definitely check the grounds in the engine bay... they're well known for looking good but being bad, so it's probably best to just cut off the ring terminals and replace them. That way you'll know they're good for sure.
Yes - full indeed. I should also have told everyone that a previous owner had CUT an access hole through the wheel well cover to get to the electrical on the driver's side... I'm sure that has played a significant role in the recent problems. I did cut off the two main grounds on the driver's side yesterday, buffed off the posts, scratched through to get good shiny copper on all the wires and installed new ring terminals. I don't know if it was the grounds or me opening up and spraying electrical cleaning solvent on all the wire harness connections, but it is performing much better now -- I have a couple codes still lingering P0647 A/C Control Circuit High; P2010 Intake Manifold Runner (Swirl) Circuit Control High; P0032 O2 Sensor 1/1 Heater Circuit High; P2122 Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor 1 Circuit Low; P0132 O2 Sensor 1/1 Circuit High... Since everyone of these is circuit related, I am sure these are just more wiring issues associated with loose or shorted or poor ground issues. I saw one forum member post that had issues with the O2 Sensor and paid a dealer service tech to replace with no change to the problem, then suggesting it might be a reflashing of the computer that might be the issue. Still working it, As long as it appears to be running OK, I am not too overly concerned right now. We shall see... I'll keep plodding on and hopefully make some more progress. Thanks for your help!
 

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If you haven't already, I would suggest doing the same thing with the ground on the passenger side (G110 below) as some of those error codes refer to circuits that use that ground.


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Discussion Starter #12
If you haven't already, I would suggest doing the same thing with the ground on the passenger side (G110 below) as some of those error codes refer to circuits that use that ground.


View attachment 93507
Yes! I went and bought another set of new lugs to do just that. My motivation initially was the passenger side headlight isn’t working despite a nee bulb so I figured it’s the ground. Good to know this may also fix some of the remaining error codes. Thanks again so much!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
If you haven't already, I would suggest doing the same thing with the ground on the passenger side (G110 below) as some of those error codes refer to circuits that use that ground.


View attachment 93507
It was a bear to get the wires stripped in that tight spot - WHY DID THEY CHOOSE THAT SPOT INSTEAD OF OF FRONT LIKE THE TWO GROUNDS ON THE DRIVER SIDE!?!? That complaint aside I’m now down to just one error code, “P2122 - Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor 1 Circuit Low” All the other codes and issues appear to be resolved — all due to poor grounds from the three main grounds I(that ’ve since rewired), or due to water/corrosion on connections or damaged relays which I’ve repaired or replaced. The passenger side ground repair also brought the passenger side head light back to life which was great. I just have to get to the bottom of the remaining error code and the two dash warnings I have - the Electronic Throttle Control and Breaks. Wonder if the ETC warning is tied to the accelerator pedal error somehow? Maybe still have a bad connection somewhere on drivers side wires. Brakes seem fine, have fluid end work fine so not sure what that’s about yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Thanks again Sandstone for all the shared service manual info and diagnostic recommendations!! The pedal error code was the result of a loose connection on a wire bundle connector - the lock pin is broken-used a zip tie and the errors were gone. TCM and PCM all error codes cleared now and the check engine light is gone! Vehicle is running and appears to be stable with no more error codes or performance issues. I’m not holding my breath but it’s very encouraging! Just have to replace the front breaks and lower control arms/ball joints and this vehicle might last him a while. Thanks again soooo much!!
 

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Wow, you've got your hands full! I totally agree with you about poor design/placement. I don't think they could have picked a worse place to put that relay box if they tried, and no weather sealing on it is pretty unforgivable. I've had my share of headaches with that. I don't think I can be very helpful, but I would check the connector to the TCM and definitely check the grounds in the engine bay... they're well known for looking good but being bad, so it's probably best to just cut off the ring terminals and replace them. That way you'll know they're good for sure.
* Now that the 2008 Patriot is running, with both headlights working, and no error codes, or stalling or failure to starts.... I would will say in hindsight, that before you change a starter or alternator, or do much of anything... I would do the following:
FIRST: CHANGING THE GROUND LUGS ON ALL THE GROUND LEADS TO FRAME IS THE FIRST THING I WOULD RECOMMEND!!
1) Cut off, re-strip and clean wires (use a knife to scratch wires to see bright copper) and reconnect to new copper ground lugs (I bought four lugs at parts store for $3-$4/ set of two each). Make sure you crimp them in good and secure;
2) Clean off any metal oxidation, dirt/grime around the grounding post on the frame and inspect it to be sure its intact - I used a Dremel with a buffing wheel to do this.
3) Reattach and test the performance - A simple failed ground can create all sorts of error codes and performance issues that are easily repaired at minimal cost.
SECOND: INSPECT ALL RELAYS IN THE RELAY BOX (located in the engine bay, drivers side to the right of the battery box, down below the TIPM). I had difficulty getting to it to remove the cover - so I removed the vehicle battery and ended up cutting the plastic pin attachment for the box (I later used a zip tie to re-secure it) - OR Alternatively, you can take off the driver's side front wheel and pull the wheel well cover off to gain access. The first Relay in the box in the corner has a reputation of failure -- the box isn't very water tight and moisture will sit in the corner and corrode the relay pins on the relay in that corner. In my case, I had to rewire a new relay outside the box because the pin broke off in that receptacle in the relay box).
THIRD: INSPECT, CLEAN AND REATTACH ALL WIRE CONNECTION HUBS - I opened up, inspected and cleaned with electronic-safe cleaning solvent all the connection hubs for the TIPM, PCM, and wire connection hubs -- these are all located around the TIPM or underneath it in the front drivers side wheel well. If your wheel well has allowed water to intrude into this area, your wiring issues could simply be an issue of poor connections from water/ grime damage. Again as I mentioned for the relay inspection, you might be better served to take the drivers side front wheel off and remove the wheel well cover to access the wires under the TIPM to perform this inspection. I had one wire hub connector that had a broken locking pin, which was creating all sorts of errors (accelerator pedal error codes), so I used a zip tie to secure it - which fixed the last of my error codes...
 
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