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Fiat Cherokar
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Discussion Starter #21
Not sure where I put the timeslips, it's been awhile since I actually went. Out on the road for the next 10 days or so, but I'd be happy to look around for them when I get home. And believe it or not I was trying to hold off our well-known difference on the FCA false advertising you fell for with that rig, in my previous post. Haven't driven my Jeep much lately as the exhaust pipe rattled through the fuel tank and I'd been looking for a fuel cell to stick in there and increase capacity while having safer storage. But no shop wants to do that and the legality of having a non-OEM fuel cell is rather questionable at the moment. So I'm stuck looking for a cheap used 13.5 gallon OEM tank as a replacement if I want my Jeep back for the winter, because the 2003 Impala that I have as a secondary is kinda scary to drive in the snow, not to mention the dealer not wanting to remove the DRL/autolight systems. Lots of crap to do at the moment to make a living so the Baja keeps getting put on the back burner because $$$$. You know as well as anybody that I would have been there already if I could have even halfway reasonably budgeted it. But I'm not anywhere near being able to afford it, those with money won't invest(which I've come around to wanting to earn it anyways), those who wanna help can't afford to, and I'm not gonna put myself into debt for something that even I know has a chance of failing. I'm all too painfully aware of the fact I've not been blessed with the means to do this so far. No need to be sarcastically reminded of it because I made a friendly post joking around saying that my 3200-pound 4-banger with a potentially explosive CVT was almost as fast as your 4000-pound V6 with a similarly explosive 9-spd. Like srsly, I seem to recall I didn't mention anything about the false badging or overgeared transmission in my first post in this thread. Just comparing notes on quarter-mile times.

Not sure where I put the timeslips
Its called image hosting...




FCA false advertising you fell for with that rig

What false advertising?

It does everything my patriot/compass could do and more and gets better fuel economy while doing it.

Haven't driven my Jeep much lately as the exhaust pipe rattled through the fuel tank and I'd been looking for a fuel cell to stick in there and increase capacity while having safer storage

Please tell me again how my Fiat is a piece of trash because your vehicle literally fell apart? In the 8 years of MK ownership that never happened to me.

You know as well as anybody that I would have been there already if I could have even halfway reasonably budgeted it

Cool story bro, things cost money but when you run your mouth as much as you do, you better have some money and cold hard FACTS to back up your statements, none of which you have ever been able to do.

No need to be sarcastically reminded of it because I made a friendly post joking around saying that my 3200-pound 4-banger with a potentially explosive CVT was almost as fast as your 4000-pound V6 with a similarly explosive 9-spd

4600lbs at full race weight, and your definition of "almost" and others probably varies quite a lot.

The 9 speed is not overgeared, its funny because I see 9th gear on the highway when the conditions are right



You go drive at that speed for long distances and tell me you get the same mileage from your "undergeared" patriot.

I really do get it though, you talk big and have no means to ever back it up.

I've always had plans for vehicles and put my money where my mouth is to prove myself and others wrong(at some points) for the benefit of the community.

You can keep all your pot shots and "opinions" of FCA going and i'll be there to back them with facts every time.
 

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Fiat Cherokar
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Discussion Starter #22
It's not a "friendly post" when you repeatedly, tiredly, obnoxiously trash a car you've never owned and clearly know nothing about. :rolleyes:

Numerous publications from TFL to Petersen's have put it head to head against XJs and others just to say it deserves it's badges. I've owned several XJs and ZJs, and still own 3 FSJs (Wagoneer and 2 J-10s), the KLTH is hands down the best off-road right out of the box of ANY full-bodied Jeep that preceded it. I haven't had the chance to wheel a Grand Cherokee Trialhawk, but it might be better still.

The point being made towards you, is that if you want to poop on someone else, you need something of your own to stand on. Trying to crap uphill just makes you look sh***y.:puke:

I"ve always wanted a WK2 Trailhawk. The upside to them VS a KL is the ground clearance as they have quadralift air suspension which can go up to 10.5" of ground clearance vs the 8.7" of a KL TH stock.

The WK2's have an Eaton E-locker in the rear diff, so while its not selectable like on a KL it functions nearly identical. Both are solid vehicle offroad but i'd give the nod to the WK2 only in terms of "toughness" but a nice WK2 is still about 20K more than my KL TH was with the same options.

On the topic of toughness, your CV axles Daniel will be murdered offroad Baja racing. I'm the one that inquired with RCV about axles and they won't make any.



Here is MK front CV's




KL Front CV's




Don't worry though i'll be Baja racing in a KL before you ever will, since RCV is making axles for the KL

 

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I feel like I have had this discussion with Rosso many times. His "cherokar" and "reneGAYed" comments are obtuse and unwelcome. It's as bad the the "not a REAL jeep" statements from the short sighted wrangler crowd. I've tried to express it and he still persists. All while he has limped his "cartriot" along trying to make it do something it was never meant to do. It would be laughable if it hadn't been going for so long at this point.
I have both an FDii MK and a Grand Cherokee limited. The Grand Cherokee is hands down superior off road. Better ground clearance (not just numbers, but the way everything is laid out leaves less hanging down) more power, and a real transfer case. The MK is great for what it is, but it is not an off-road machine. It's a car based CUV with surprising capability. I actually did a lot of research prior to buying the Grand cherokee and afterwards stayed away from the air suspension. It was a point of failure that a lot of people didn't like and also made lifting the platform much more difficult. So while it looks good on paper, everything I read and experiences shared with me from other owners, told me to stay away from the air ride system.
I will also say that I helped dig an '18 Compass out of the sand this year at the beach and had no problems with the same section in my Patriot. Perhaps being FDii was more of a factor than I thought, but the other owner was experienced in the sand and did everything else right, and I never used any of the FDii specific features to get through the section. (lots of deep soft sand where momentum is key and the FDii's "low range" would just bog down and prevent momentum instead of enhancing it) I am just not a fan of the Aesthetics of the renegade or the cherokee, but I see a lot of them out in the sand and they seem to do just as well as my FDii. I am jealous of the Cherokee's driveline. available locker, V6, and no CVT..... Pop the Patriot body on that and I'd be lined up to buy it.
 

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Fiat Cherokar
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Discussion Starter #24
I feel like I have had this discussion with Rosso many times. His "cherokar" and "reneGAYed" comments are obtuse and unwelcome. It's as bad the the "not a REAL jeep" statements from the short sighted wrangler crowd. I've tried to express it and he still persists. All while he has limped his "cartriot" along trying to make it do something it was never meant to do. It would be laughable if it hadn't been going for so long at this point.
I have both an FDii MK and a Grand Cherokee limited. The Grand Cherokee is hands down superior off road. Better ground clearance (not just numbers, but the way everything is laid out leaves less hanging down) more power, and a real transfer case. The MK is great for what it is, but it is not an off-road machine. It's a car based CUV with surprising capability. I actually did a lot of research prior to buying the Grand cherokee and afterwards stayed away from the air suspension. It was a point of failure that a lot of people didn't like and also made lifting the platform much more difficult. So while it looks good on paper, everything I read and experiences shared with me from other owners, told me to stay away from the air ride system.
I will also say that I helped dig an '18 Compass out of the sand this year at the beach and had no problems with the same section in my Patriot. Perhaps being FDii was more of a factor than I thought, but the other owner was experienced in the sand and did everything else right, and I never used any of the FDii specific features to get through the section. (lots of deep soft sand where momentum is key and the FDii's "low range" would just bog down and prevent momentum instead of enhancing it) I am just not a fan of the Aesthetics of the renegade or the cherokee, but I see a lot of them out in the sand and they seem to do just as well as my FDii. I am jealous of the Cherokee's driveline. available locker, V6, and no CVT..... Pop the Patriot body on that and I'd be lined up to buy it.

I was really hoping for the 4 Cylinder Active Drive 2 drivetrain to go into the new compass, which is available in the cherokee. The 184hp on a 4000lb+ vehicle makes it super slow BUT the low range makes it no different than the V6 powered cherokees offroad.

The power of low range offroad can't be substituted for anything.

Even Cherokee's can bog down.


Here is my friends 2015 Trailhawk, stock even with crap all season tires, up a slippery hill the BLD's just lock up and bog everything down. Use 4-low (without the locker) and everything is fine. I seldom use the rear locker unless i'm in something really hairy.
 

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I was really hoping for the 4 Cylinder Active Drive 2 drivetrain to go into the new compass, which is available in the cherokee. The 184hp on a 4000lb+ vehicle makes it super slow BUT the low range makes it no different than the V6 powered cherokees offroad.

The power of low range offroad can't be substituted for anything.

Even Cherokee's can bog down.

Here is my friends 2015 Trailhawk, stock even with crap all season tires, up a slippery hill the BLD's just lock up and bog everything down. Use 4-low (without the locker) and everything is fine. I seldom use the rear locker unless i'm in something really hairy.
Yeah, I feel like a lot of people don't realize how important a true low range gear case is. Most of the off-road adventures I have are in the sand. In the sand, low range really doesn't get you anything unless it's one of those "already too late" circumstances. (like airing down your tires after you get stuck) In almost all other forms of off road driving a true low range, multiplying the torque output of the engine/transmission, is unequaled. I feel like Jeep did the best they could with the MK platform and the CVT. There is zero doubt in my mind that Chrysler gave them a Caliber and told them to "Jeep it up". It's not like the MK was a ground up build for Jeep.
I know that a lot of MK owners would love a transfer case and locking differential, (active drive 2) but I can also see a lot of snapped axle shafts and broken suspension parts had they gone that route. I'm not sure if the new Compass using more robust parts in those areas than the original MK.
They really have to walk a fine line between trying to offer the capability that made them famous and designing vehicles people will actually pay for that also meet EPA and safety standards. The Current line up from Jeep looks to me like they have decided to try and meet several markets. Those who consider themselves "hardcore Jeepers" will hate that. But, they have to sell vehicles to survive and as well as wranglers sell, it's not enough to keep them in business. We as consumers have to decide which is more important in the Price-Aesthetics-Utility-Capability equation.
 

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Fiat Cherokar
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Discussion Starter #26
The FDII MK's were unmatched in their category for offroad performance, the Renegade and New Compass MP are still the same. The thing is it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to make or (could have made) the MK's more offroad oriented because Jeep has other models for precisely that reason that being offroad performance unmatched in whatever segment you look at.

My 2014 ADII V6 Cherokee beat the pants off my Compass simply because of the low range, it was however a more expensive vehicle too.

On the renegades and new Compass, sadly the CV axles are still rather small so i'm not sure how robust they are, but I don't hear a lot of failures due to lifting either.

If I would have known how little offroading I would be doing in the future I may have fixed up my compass, but like I said before It needed lots of work. With all the highway driving I do now the mileage is noticeably better that either of my MK's were (Granted FDII's got the worst mileage)

Until you drive something or wheel something with low range, like you said most people have no idea how much difference it makes.
 

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Fiat Cherokar
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Discussion Starter #28
Mud bogging, something neither a KL or MK has any business doing.

The closest to mud bogging in my friend's KL


 

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when I switched from my patriot to my XJ cherokee, the difference couldn't have been more stark. Night and day. And its all down to the low range. My ford ranger (well mazda B4000) is the same way, the low range means a world of difference. I pushed my patriot through some of the toughest trails I could bring it on in AZ, and my cherokee walked through the same trails like they were paved roads.

My ONLY issues with the KL are 1) it's ugly, even the facelift is ugly. My uncle has a TH, and has taken me off road in it, AMAZING vehicle, When i turn around and look at it I go "yuck" every time! ;) . and 2) I wish they had keep the liberty name or given it its own name. Kinda like Mitsubishi is doing with the "eclipse" name and slapping it on an SUV. the original XJ and the KL are just far to different to me to carry the same name plate.

I WISH the new Compass had the low range the KL has. Seriously I would own one now. I like the way it looks SO much better than the KL, the old compass, the renegade, and even the patriot.

Rosso is driving me nuts, trying to tell me his 18 year old Chevy is better than my 2015 q50... I'm sorry.. its just not. In no way shape or form is a more than 2 decade old platform, FWD, Malibu based Chevy better in any way than a modern Japanese luxury car. and in no way is a patriot Better than a KL (except maybe looks, I just cannot get over it).
 

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Mud bogging, something neither a KL or MK has any business doing.

The closest to mud bogging in my friend's KL


That 3.2 has some oomph! Wish it was in the MK platform instead...

when I switched from my patriot to my XJ cherokee, the difference couldn't have been more stark. Night and day. And its all down to the low range. My ford ranger (well mazda B4000) is the same way, the low range means a world of difference. I pushed my patriot through some of the toughest trails I could bring it on in AZ, and my cherokee walked through the same trails like they were paved roads.

My ONLY issues with the KL are 1) it's ugly, even the facelift is ugly. My uncle has a TH, and has taken me off road in it, AMAZING vehicle, When i turn around and look at it I go "yuck" every time! <img src="http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" class="inlineimg" /> . and 2) I wish they had keep the liberty name or given it its own name. Kinda like Mitsubishi is doing with the "eclipse" name and slapping it on an SUV. the original XJ and the KL are just far to different to me to carry the same name plate.

I WISH the new Compass had the low range the KL has. Seriously I would own one now. I like the way it looks SO much better than the KL, the old compass, the renegade, and even the patriot.

Rosso is driving me nuts, trying to tell me his 18 year old Chevy is better than my 2015 q50... I'm sorry.. its just not. In no way shape or form is a more than 2 decade old platform, FWD, Malibu based Chevy better in any way than a modern Japanese luxury car. and in no way is a patriot Better than a KL (except maybe looks, I just cannot get over it).
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If you can't see it, he posted an emoji of two beer mugs clinking together, indicating he agrees with your position. Sometimes these emojis show up for me and sometimes they don't: not even a missing image symbol, haha!
Ohhhh.... Ok, yeah I just see "& # x 1 f 3 7 b ;" without the spaces.
 

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Oy vey, complaining about me speaking truth, eh? I know about image hosting, I just literally misplaced the physical timeslips and I don't think I ever took pics of them.

And AIC, I don't believe I was so much trying to say my Impala was "better" than your Infiniti(besides being American, perhaps, haha). Just a cheaper ride that's been known to go a looong way with little maintenance, though most have already gone that distance, including mine. Heck, I think I even made the recommendation before even noticing you had already traded to another vehicle. Kinda long post with no paragraphs separating things, my friend.

Breadtruck, I've considered winter tires, but really it's probably cheaper to just get a gas tank for the Patriot via moparparts overstock. As much as I'd like to go the fuel cell route, money's a little tight right now and I miss the AWD. And the dealer looked into removing the DRL's and autolights, but I guess it was too complicated for them. I want that crap out ASAP because it's ridiculous. If the lights need on, I'll turn them on myself.

Then there's the "don't crap on a vehicle you've never driven"....I don't need to drive it!!!! It's an abomination!!!! Gas cap on the wrong side, way too cushy for what it's badged as, and its [ugly]. As for the smaller versions, the so-called "compass" and "renegade", even the guys at my local Dodge/Fiat dealer know that those aren't Jeeps. Bit of hem-hawing from them over the Cherokar, but that could be mainly because the Italians decided to build it next to their Wranglers and minivans for awhile.

And all this, my friends, is what happens when a friendly poke/comparison between a 3300-pound econobox with a 4-banger and a 4600(?)-pound LUXURY CAR with a V6 is taken WAY out of context and turned into a CVT hate-fest . . .
 

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Fiat Cherokar
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Discussion Starter #37
Oy vey, complaining about me speaking truth, eh? I know about image hosting, I just literally misplaced the physical timeslips and I don't think I ever took pics of them.

And AIC, I don't believe I was so much trying to say my Impala was "better" than your Infiniti(besides being American, perhaps, haha). Just a cheaper ride that's been known to go a looong way with little maintenance, though most have already gone that distance, including mine. Heck, I think I even made the recommendation before even noticing you had already traded to another vehicle. Kinda long post with no paragraphs separating things, my friend.

Breadtruck, I've considered winter tires, but really it's probably cheaper to just get a gas tank for the Patriot via moparparts overstock. As much as I'd like to go the fuel cell route, money's a little tight right now and I miss the AWD. And the dealer looked into removing the DRL's and autolights, but I guess it was too complicated for them. I want that crap out ASAP because it's ridiculous. If the lights need on, I'll turn them on myself.

Then there's the "don't crap on a vehicle you've never driven"....I don't need to drive it!!!! It's an abomination!!!! Gas cap on the wrong side, way too cushy for what it's badged as, and almost uglier than Hillary Clinton(on her less bad days). As for the smaller versions, the so-called "compass" and "renegade", even the guys at my local Dodge/Fiat dealer know that those aren't Jeeps. Bit of hem-hawing from them over the Cherokar, but that could be mainly because the Italians decided to build it next to their Wranglers and minivans for awhile.

And all this, my friends, is what happens when a friendly poke/comparison between a 3300-pound econobox with a 4-banger and a 4600(?)-pound LUXURY CAR with a V6 is taken WAY out of context and turned into a CVT hate-fest complete with drooling over the Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of Jeeps.
I"ll try to keep this somewhat on track

1. If you need a gas tank try here https://www.lkqonline.com/ They also have tons of parts for all different types of vehicles. I got my spare FDII Diff From here

Gas cap on wrong side = purely opinion, maybe the gas cap is on the wrong side of MK's

Looks are 100% subjective so you get a pass there, but for me functionality took over from the looks department

Cushy, again something doesn't need to ride like a lumber wagon to be good offroad. Are you going to tell a Quadralift Grand Cherokee owner his vehicle is too luxurious to be a jeep. When the WK2 is the definition of luxury and offroad. If you have every ridden in a newer JK wrangler or JL wranger you will find they ride very nicely, so you may as well tell those owners they have cushy vehicles.

I don't know who Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is.

I haven't done a hate fest at all with MK's I know what they can do and they fit a market that they do very well in.

Now get your Patriot tuned up and be the first with a tuned MK
 

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Eh, transmission fix on the Impala is more than what it's really worth to me, so it's getting sold and a fuel tank from Moparpartsoverstock is going in, unless LKQ turns out cheaper. I know the part # now, and getting the moparpartsoverstock shipped in and installed is just a bit more than what the dealer would charge for the part alone.

And the gas cap is on the left of all the other Jeeps. These are American vehicles, they should (figuratively) scream 'Merica. It even bugs me that the newer Camaros have the gas tank on the passenger side.

And yes, I would tell a WK2 owner that their vehicle is closer to a Land Rover than a Jeep when you get past the badging. Because that's what they are, and unlike FCA, I don't like lying to people. Srsly, they lied to everybody about CVT maintenance, and you somehow think they won't lie about other things? Like how Jeepish these so-called Jeeps really are? And I've sat in a JK once, seemed nice but not really cushy, maybe a step down in ride comfort from the Patriot....right where a Wrangler should be.

I'm hoping to do alot more to mine come spring, but Tyler, PLEEEASE come back to Jeep........
 

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Oy vey, complaining about me speaking truth, eh? I know about image hosting, I just literally misplaced the physical timeslips and I don't think I ever took pics of them.

And AIC, I don't believe I was so much trying to say my Impala was "better" than your Infiniti(besides being American, perhaps, haha). Just a cheaper ride that's been known to go a looong way with little maintenance, though most have already gone that distance, including mine. Heck, I think I even made the recommendation before even noticing you had already traded to another vehicle. Kinda long post with no paragraphs separating things, my friend.

Breadtruck, I've considered winter tires, but really it's probably cheaper to just get a gas tank for the Patriot via moparparts overstock. As much as I'd like to go the fuel cell route, money's a little tight right now and I miss the AWD. And the dealer looked into removing the DRL's and autolights, but I guess it was too complicated for them. I want that crap out ASAP because it's ridiculous. If the lights need on, I'll turn them on myself.

Then there's the "don't crap on a vehicle you've never driven"....I don't need to drive it!!!! It's an abomination!!!! Gas cap on the wrong side, way too cushy for what it's badged as, and its [ugly]. As for the smaller versions, the so-called "compass" and "renegade", even the guys at my local Dodge/Fiat dealer know that those aren't Jeeps. Bit of hem-hawing from them over the Cherokar, but that could be mainly because the Italians decided to build it next to their Wranglers and minivans for awhile.

And all this, my friends, is what happens when a friendly poke/comparison between a 3300-pound econobox with a 4-banger and a 4600(?)-pound LUXURY CAR with a V6 is taken WAY out of context and turned into a CVT hate-fest . . .
No truth..... just your own misguided opinions...

If AIC was interested in a clunky old design with a less than good reputation, he clearly would have gone that route to begin with.

DRL's are considered factory installed "safety equipment". It would be against the law for a dealer to deactivate or remove them. Auto lights would require re-engineering the entire electrical control system of the vehicle and would cost more than buying another car. Again.... asinine ramblings and aspirations from someone who clearly does no research....

The last paragraph just proves everyone else in the thread right. Once again nothing but vitriolic opinions without fact or merit. They are as much or more of a "Jeep" than any Cartriot out there. The Patriot started life as a Dodge Caliber. The same platform is shared with the Chrysler 200 and Dodge avenger. Now those are some vehicles with serious off road credibility.......
 

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That so-called "safety equipment" makes drivers overly dependent on a computer and needs to be removed. But I digress. This is Tyler's thread about his Fiat, and my initial comment here comparing quarter-mile times, was, for once, somehow just a friendly comparison and an attempt to say something that wouldn't be just another poke at the glitchy transmission with too many gears or false badging. And we all saw where that turned out. Y'all jumped on me like the heathens on Twitter usually do.
 
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