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-   -   Compkar v. Patriot (https://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/6-jeep-compass/335083-compkar-v-patriot.html)

Ignatz 12-24-2018 10:37 AM

Compkar v. Patriot
 
As I reported back in the spring I sold my beloved 2008 Patriot as it neared the 300,000 mile mark. :crying: My employment changed and now I have several reasons to be traveling in much more severe winter weather. Considering the advanced age of my Patriot it was time for a new vehicle and AWD made sense. Had my Patriot been under 200,000 miles I would have stayed with it since I was overall confident of its performance in on-road snow.

I bought a new 2nd generation Compass (2018, AWD, 2.4, 9-spd a/t) for the same reason as I bought both of our Patriots -- we needed something that was comfortable, had a reasonable cargo capacity, and was capable of handling snow in any on-road situation we were likely to encounter. As reflected in the title of this thread, I think my Compass is more car-like than I would expect a Jeep to be, but its car-like features are why I bought it. IMO they should have marketed it as a Dodge. It gives me good cargo capacity and excellent fuel economy.

Likes:
  • Even with AWD my Compass gets slightly better fuel economy than my 2008 Patriot (FWD, 2.4, CVT) and comparable to our 2014 (FWD, 2.0, 5-spd). My overall average since owning it is 31.0MPG, though down from 31.5 since I installed studded snow tires and the weather has turned colder.
  • Cargo capacity is about equal, although rear access is higher/better than our Patriot.
  • As expected, the Compass rides and handles ďbetterĒ meaning I feel less of the road. IMHO, the auto industry long ago lost interest in making cars that really had a smooth ride like the cars of the 1960s. They read too many magazine reviews written by desk-jockeys who donít spend time on the road like outside sales reps do. When they get behind the wheel they want it to drive a sports car. I don't race NASCAR and I donít want to Ďfeel' the road -- I want to feel like I'm sitting in my living room.

Dislikes:
  • For all they market the drivetrain as advanced, it sounds primitive. It made a consistent grinding sound between 30-45MPH, 'remedied' by a software update moved the grinding sound up to 45+ where it is largely covered by road noise. It makes a huge clunk :surprise: when decelerating like when Iíve been moving along at highway speeds and slow down to make a turn to maybe 25MPH. BANG! It is comparable to a backfire or when putting our Wrangler into 4wd low. This is apparently ďnormal.Ē :icon_rolleyes:
  • Oil consumption. For the first 20,000 miles Iíve averaged <2000 miles/quart. My Patriot did better with 250,000+ on the odometer! Oil consumption seems to be moderating. I got 3000 miles from my last oil change to today, but itís time for another quart. Maybe this is just an incredibly long break-in period. :confused: Some on the Compass owners' site have reported much worse oil consumption than mine; others don't seem to have a problem.

I've had it in several snowstorms this fall. In one situation the highway was blocked by a stuck semi and I had some trouble backing down a hill covered with hard-packed snow (white ice) so the DOT truck could get through. The Compass wanted to slide diagonally. That was in October and I still had my 'all-season' (three season) tires on. I got out of the mess by feeding it a little gas to counter the engine-heavy front end, and intentionally getting onto the shoulder where the snow was deeper and softer and I found better traction.
The other was a few weeks ago just driving along on a typical snow-covered highway. By then I had dedicated snow tires and I think my Patriot had better lateral stability than my Compass, maybe because the Compass has a boxier wheelbase.

So in short I'm satisfied but not impressed. I'm a bit worried about the oil consumption and the drive-train noises. More thorough testing and better engineering should have caught and corrected these problems before they put it on the market. I still don't understand why they were in such a rush to get the Patriot off the market.

DangerAaron 12-24-2018 12:02 PM

The Patriot/Compass/"MK" platform had to go. It was based of an old Dodge design that no longer fit into the product line up. The New Compass is (like the Renegade) based on the Fiat 500X. It uses the Tiger Shark engine instead of the old GEMA design, and Chrysler's new transmissions. The Patriot was left as the odd kid that required old engines/transmissions/ and didn't make sense long term to continue. It was only a matter of time before It got redesigned into the Fiat fold with Chrysler's newer engines and transmissions. When that happened they dropped the "boxy" Patriot body design. I'm sure their market research told them that the Compass body design was more appealing to a wider base of customers.
I too would be worried about the drive train noises and the oil consumption. Neither of those things seem "normal" to me. My Patriot uses less than a quart of oil between changes and I change the oil every 5K (light on or not). I can only imagine how bad the drivetrain noise must be if a person used to the GEMA engine/CVT combo finds it alarming or noisy....
I hope it serves you well.

aroundincircles 12-24-2018 12:26 PM

I too would be worried about that kind of oil consuption. My 89 cherokee with 200k miles on it didn't consume that much oil... That seems excessive.

Ignatz 12-24-2018 01:44 PM

The party line is that the engine consumes oil because . . .

1) The required oil is 0-20 so its virtually as thin as water. Explanation is that the oil is sprayed not squirted on the engine components. Not hard to figure how oil that thin might find places to escape, and
2) The looser tolerances make for less internal friction so better fuel economy.

I just wonder if 0-20 really offers the same long-term protection against normal engine wear as a thicker oil.

miketmx 12-24-2018 02:46 PM

Today is my 79th birthday and 4 years ago yesterday is the date that I traded our 2008 Patriot with the 5 speed stick for our present 2015 Patriot with the 6 speed automatic. This is now the 5th winter for the studded Hercules Avalanche X-Treme tires. These are the noisiest tires I have ever owned but they still work better than the Michelin X-Ice I2 winter tires we had on our 2008 Patriot. The 2015 Patriot runs great with 124 k km on it and it has never ever used a drop of oil. I use synthetic oil and change every 8k km or 5 k miles. On the highways I liked the 5 speed stick a little better than the 6 speed automatic but it was not fun shifting all the time in heavy city traffic. We are a one car family now and I have no plans at all to trade the Patriot yet. If and when I do trade I don't know what to get. I was always concerned about the 9 speed ZX transmission with the bad reviews and the low ground clearance on the new Compass made in Mexico and the Renegade made in Italy by Fiat do not appeal to me. The Cherokee still made in the U.S. might be Ok or maybe a Subaru Forester if they fixed the oil consumption problem. I just don't know ?

Sandstone 12-24-2018 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miketmx (Post 1852235)
Today is my 79th birthday..

Happy Birthday!

bwpakk 12-24-2018 11:43 PM

Hi Ignatz, sorry to hear about the issues your having with the new Compkar, and having to have sold your Ď08 ( how much did you get for a Ď08 w 300k ). With your oil consumption, do you put many mile on a week, and is it short distances, or a lot of highway travel. Iím going to guess highway, if we compare mpg. Seems like way too much oil used. I remember some of our members switching to 0-20 in the early years, saying that for their area it would be better. But I canít remember any of them complaining about excessive oil consumption after they switched. Then again, not everyone keeps reporting back issues they have. I guess Iím saying Iíd be concerned; thinner viscosity or looser tolerances.

Ignatz 12-25-2018 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miketmx (Post 1852235)
Today is my 79th birthday

Happy Birthday. Please share your cake.:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by miketmx (Post 1852235)
I was always concerned about the 9 speed ZX transmission with the bad reviews and the low ground clearance on the new Compass made in Mexico and the Renegade made in Italy by Fiat do not appeal to me.

The tranny is wierd, and more complicated than that famed turbo encabulator. Accelerating isn't a problem, but its got a lot of gears to go through. Since 5th gear is a 1:1 ratio, this gearbox has 4 overdrives, and the 9th gear doesn't engage unless I use autostick and I've got be be doing over 60MPH to even do that. Downshifting is OK until I drop from 5 to 4. It takes an eternity -- well, probably two or three seconds -- but that can mean a couple hundred feet. Now imagine being on a steep grade coming into a small town with the local constable monitoring the 30MPH village limit, "Uh, sorry officer, I was waiting for my transmission to downshift." "Yeah, buddy, tell that one to the judge."
I've only taken my Compass off-road once (really it was a poor trail). Traction was no problem and I didn't hit bottom, but I did turn back not wanting to risk it. I don't have a skid plate. I think my FWD Patriot could have done what my Compass did. In fact I had it in worse conditions and I shared that adventure in the FWD forum.
Quote:

Originally Posted by miketmx (Post 1852235)
The Cherokee still made in the U.S. might be Ok or maybe a Subaru Forester if they fixed the oil consumption problem. I just don't know ?

I didn't know that Subaru was having problems with oil consumption, but it doesn't surprise me. The buzz on the Compass website seems to say all the manufacturers are going this route. One member said the new Ford Mustang is only getting 500 miles/qt!

Ignatz 12-25-2018 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwpakk (Post 1852263)
Hi Ignatz, sorry to hear about the issues your having with the new Compkar, and having to have sold your Ď08 ( how much did you get for a Ď08 w 300k ). With your oil consumption, do you put many mile on a week, and is it short distances, or a lot of highway travel. Iím going to guess highway, if we compare mpg. Seems like way too much oil used. I remember some of our members switching to 0-20 in the early years, saying that for their area it would be better. But I canít remember any of them complaining about excessive oil consumption after they switched. Then again, not everyone keeps reporting back issues they have. I guess Iím saying Iíd be concerned; thinner viscosity or looser tolerances.

I sold my 2008 Patriot for $500 to a friend. Right after that my Sister's car died. I would have given it to Her.

I travel just about all of NH with occasional jogs into Mass, VT, or Maine. Most of my miles are highway miles -- maybe 1/2 expressway, the other 1/2 on state roads, and of course they put small towns along the state roads that make me change speed, or likely I'm stopping there anyway. I do some city driving, but I've been traveling the state since the mid-1980s so I've learned my way around the snarls and I avoid rush hour. Maybe 1% of my miles are in stop & go situations.

Treegrower 12-25-2018 10:49 AM

What is your opinion of the new Electronic Start-Stop function? A lot of new cars are incorporating this feature.

RonD 12-25-2018 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treegrower (Post 1852279)
What is your opinion of the new Electronic Start-Stop function? A lot of new cars are incorporating this feature.

I will only get start/stop if I can disable. I don't see much difference gas mileage wise, and in the two cars that I recently drove, I could feel the engagement when starting out. The most recent one was less than a month ago with a new Chevy Malibu. The engagement when starting like at lights, stop signs, etc. is disconcerting. To me, it felt like a quick flatspot that makes me believe something is wrong, as a result you are hesitant on the gas until your brain catches up that you have start/stop. I'm sure everyone has their own opinion on this device &#x1f44d; I also question what the long term wear and tear on the mechanicals will be&#x1f914;

festerw 12-25-2018 03:41 PM

I'd be furious about the oil consumption. In my 04 4.7 Tundra I use 0w-20 and it add a 1/2 quart over 10k and that's considering it's got 190k on the motor.

Ignatz 12-25-2018 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treegrower (Post 1852279)
What is your opinion of the new Electronic Start-Stop function? A lot of new cars are incorporating this feature.

At best I think its a nuisance, and at worst its a safety concern. As with RonD above, it feels like hesitation. It restarts quickly, but it can't possibly start immediately, so in reality it feels like a stumble when you leave a traffic light. Really stupid if all I'm doing is honoring a stop sign. I suppose its done to save fuel, but we're saving a spoonful (or less) at a time. Someone will argue that adds up to a million spoonfuls a day, but in the eternal scheme of things, its only the proverbial drop in the bucket.

The biggest problem with it is the hesitation could mean the difference between crossing a street safely or not quite making it. Accidents can happen by inches and by seconds, and the start/stop device is costing a few inches and a few seconds.

On my first test-drive I was leaving the dealership lot and pulling onto a busy street. As I pulled up to look for traffic the thing shut off. "Crap, I've managed to stall an automatic!" I thought. I rammed it back into Park only to have it start up all on its own. Definitely distracted this driver. :|

My Compass has a switch to disable this failure, I mean feature, so when I buckle my seat belt my hand is right there and I switch it off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by festerw (Post 1852293)
I'd be furious about the oil consumption. In my 04 4.7 Tundra I use 0w-20 and it add a 1/2 quart over 10k and that's considering it's got 190k on the motor.

Yeah, as I said my 300,000 mile Patriot was using less oil. I'm sure I've added more to my Compass than I did to my Patriot in all those years. Apparently this is the way they are designing new engines. What I'm hearing is that people are going to arbitration and losing because as long as its better than 1000 miles/quart, the manufactures say its a normal function of the design. If nothing else there should be a low oil indicator which there is not. I've been told if its down two quarts it will just shut down -- obviously a nuisance. My '01 Grand Prix had a low oil light, so I should think FCA could put one in engines that use this much oil. We have fuel gauges; we should have oil gauges. Not just a pressure gauge like we have, but an actual oil level indicator.

RossoRacer 12-26-2018 01:25 PM

My Patriot doesn't have an oil level indicator, but before I got better hose clamps on my aftermarket oil cooler, an oil light would come on at those times when the clamps came loose. How low it had to get for that light to come on, I don't know because it kinda lost all 5 quarts all at once. In my '03 Impala, not long after I got it some minor engine part failed(relatively cheap fix even at the local FCA/Buick dealer where I bought the Patriot) and it started using a quart or two of oil every hundred miles or so. Took about that much oil loss to turn the light on in that one.

Ignatz 12-26-2018 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RossoRacer (Post 1852337)
In my '03 Impala, not long after I got it some minor engine part failed(relatively cheap fix even at the local FCA/Buick dealer where I bought the Patriot) and it started using a quart or two of oil every hundred miles or so. Took about that much oil loss to turn the light on in that one.

Yipes! You must have been leaving a smoke screen.

Back in college I made a trip to Pennsylvania to visit a GF and the fuel pump gasket let go somewhere in western Connecticut and started spraying oil on the exhaust manifold. I burnt up a case of oil between there and Pittsburgh. It was a memorable (stinky) trip.

GF didn't last much longer than that case of oil. :(


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