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post #106 of 130 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by RossoRacer View Post
And in response to the bit about solid axles being horrible off-road....they're still good in many crawling cases, and more durable. Independent suspension just means you can straddle more stuff, and take high-speed desert courses better if you have the spring travel. A "Wrangler" with independent suspension on either end would no longer be a Wrangler, just as having four doors ruins the novelty effect, and just like slapping the Cherokee badge on an independent axle Fiat doesn't make it a Jeep.
Yeah they say the only downside of the independent suspension is that its more expensive to fix, which is true. I do think that solid axels get in the way more off road and if they are in the way probably more likely to get damaged.

If the wrangler would have independent suspension, they would never have the death wobble.
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post #107 of 130 (permalink) Old 03-23-2019, 01:39 AM Thread Starter
 
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Having wheeled something with full independent suspension, front and rear solid axles, and something with independent front/solid rear, here are my observations:


1) Independent suspension means a MUCH more comfortable off road ride, especially if you're able to disconnect the sway bars. you can run trails a bit faster, and they are less jarring to your spine. BUT you find yourself on 3, or even 2 wheels quite often, meaning a locker or other traction device is almost required, since you'll often have 1 tire on at least one axle able to spin freely, thus getting all the torque, forward progression especially up hill was often an issue I struggled with.

2) front and rear solid axles. I'll admit my XJ had the Cadillac of suspensions, with dual rate springs in the front, OME shocks, and OME leafs in the rear, and it rode way better on and off road that most solid axle jeeps I had ever been in. That being said, Trails were MUCH rougher, and had to be taken slower. BUT due to articulation of the axles, I almost never had even a single tire off the ground, and so with no additional traction devices, (open diffs), places I struggled with my patriot, I had no issues in the XJ. The solid axles tend to be more robust, and can handle more than independent suspension setups on stock to lightly modified vehicles (the axles themselves are thicker/stronger, and have fewer fail points, like CV joints.)

3) independent front, and solid rear: the best and worst of both worlds. Maybe because I went from SUVs to a truck, but the ride is not as good as the patriot, and the articulation is worse than the jeep. If I had the $$, I would Solid axle swap the front end on my truck, no questions. It would have been done yesterday.

It comes down to really what you need/want. If I was doing mostly overland, light duty trails, independent suspension no questions, as long as it had a traction device (locker). if you do more difficult/technical trails, there is no contest that a solid axle setup is stronger, more reliable, and gives better traction in all situations.

as far as death wobble. 99.999% of the time, that is due to a loose track bar, and that is easily resolved by making sure the track bar is not getting loose. Whether the bolt has backed out, the hole it goes through is wallowed out, or the bushings on the track bar have started to fail, resolving the issue fixes the death wobble. and proper maintenance prevents it. (and it's super easy to check, just look at your front axle and have somebody turn the steering wheel left and right, if there is any play at all, it's super noticeable right away.)

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post #108 of 130 (permalink) Old 03-24-2019, 12:01 AM
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Doesn't the track bar/death wobble situation usually happen from hack job lift kits?

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post #109 of 130 (permalink) Old 03-24-2019, 12:29 AM Thread Starter
 
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Doesn't the track bar/death wobble situation usually happen from hack job lift kits?
no.

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post #110 of 130 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 12:20 AM
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Hrm. Thought I had heard it was from those things being installed improperly, but it's possible that's only one possible source, or that I misheard, or that it's mainly local thing. Phoenix probably has ALOT more good low-cost offroad shops than northern Michigan. We've got barely anything here.

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post #111 of 130 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 12:53 AM Thread Starter
 
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Hrm. Thought I had heard it was from those things being installed improperly, but it's possible that's only one possible source, or that I misheard, or that it's mainly local thing. Phoenix probably has ALOT more good low-cost offroad shops than northern Michigan. We've got barely anything here.
99.9% of the time, Track bar is loose at the axle.


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post #112 of 130 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by aroundincircles View Post
Having wheeled something with full independent suspension, front and rear solid axles, and something with independent front/solid rear, here are my observations:


1) Independent suspension means a MUCH more comfortable off road ride, especially if you're able to disconnect the sway bars. you can run trails a bit faster, and they are less jarring to your spine. BUT you find yourself on 3, or even 2 wheels quite often, meaning a locker or other traction device is almost required, since you'll often have 1 tire on at least one axle able to spin freely, thus getting all the torque, forward progression especially up hill was often an issue I struggled with.
What did you off road that was independent suspension that wasn't a patriot?
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post #113 of 130 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by aroundincircles View Post
Having wheeled something with full independent suspension, front and rear solid axles, and something with independent front/solid rear, here are my observations:


3) independent front, and solid rear: the best and worst of both worlds. Maybe because I went from SUVs to a truck, but the ride is not as good as the patriot, and the articulation is worse than the jeep. If I had the $$, I would Solid axle swap the front end on my truck, no questions. It would have been done yesterday.
Man now you are making me rethink an xterra. I would think the ride would be much improved.

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post #114 of 130 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
 
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What did you off road that was independent suspension that wasn't a patriot?
an original army surplus humvee. Not mine, but a good friend of mine had one back in the early 2000's. Bought it off surplus for a song, and sold it for $50k a few years later. We were able to blast through the desert at 100mph +, and didn't feel a single bump. crawl up the sides of cliffs, but even with its incredible travel, 3 wheeling was quite frequent, and sudden drops on either of the front wheels would cause the back to pop up a bit. I've also been in (but not driven) Rang rovers, which, apart from all the electrical issues, were amazing machines off road, but they all had some sort of traction device to lock the axles.

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post #115 of 130 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
 
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Man now you are making me rethink an xterra. I would think the ride would be much improved.
Go take one for a drive. They are for sale all over the place. Don't take my opinion as gospel, I've known two guys with them, ridden in them, and as far as I'm aware, they were unmodified. I found them to be a lot harsher than I was expecting them to be. But I also haven't ridden in Liberty either, which has a similar setup, and probably beat you up off road as well.
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1998 Mazda B4000 4x4
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post #116 of 130 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
 
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You Tube
"> You Tube
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post #117 of 130 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 12:23 AM Thread Starter
 
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Hit 2 million views on my youtube channel!




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post #118 of 130 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
 
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Congratz dude with 2 millions.
Thanks! it took me 4 years, 4 months to hit my first 1 million, about 18 months to hit 2 million, and it should be less than 12 to hit 3 million views!

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post #119 of 130 (permalink) Old 04-27-2019, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
 
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post #120 of 130 (permalink) Old 04-27-2019, 06:18 PM
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Looks like you're up near Flagstaff. Pretty country out there. I took a trip north myself, up to Mackinac Bridge and Drummond Island. Rcguymike came out this way too, and is staying at the same hotel at the same time, but we've barely met in person this weekend, haha.

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