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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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Question New member needs help

All,

I am new to this forum, and it seems like this is a good one. Lots of good posts in here. Hopefully this will be one too.

I have been searching for a few hours now for answers to my Patriot trouble, and it seems like this is a common issue. I appreciate your patience if this is a tired and annoying question. The problem I am having is that I can't seem to find a common fix, and everything I have tried thus far has failed (not that I tried that much). It is the ABS and Traction control light problem. Here is a history of the issue and the steps I have taken. Any advice is appreciated. I have searched a lot but I think I could save a few hours of research with this post, pending at least one generous mechanic sees it.

We have a 2015 Jeep Patriot 2.4. (Wife's main ride)

ABS and Traction Lights started to intermittently come on around a year ago.

Wife complained it was also "jerking."

Took in to dealership (warrantee covered) replaced ABS Sensor on front left wheel. Told us there is no jerking.

Warrantee expired...

Wife complains that her tires are going bald. and brakes are screeching when it rains.

Bought two new tires (I was lazy and never rotated them)

Put new tires on the rear and moved old tires up front.

Wife complained of vibration, and loud road noise. Brake screeching getting worse (brakes are good, they just screech)... She was right.

I took Jeep back to Tire place so they could rebalance wheels. They did, and it fixed the vibration issues. They said that the loud noise was due to cupping, and I need to buy two new tires if I want it to go away. Since they didn't even bother to balance my new tires the first time I dropped it off, I did not really believe them.

I just left and figured eventually the tires would wear down to where the noise would subside. Decided that I need to do something about that screeching brake thing...

After a month later, tires are till loud. So, I rotated them back to the rear because, to my dismay, my wife wanted to be able to have a conversation with me while driving.

While doing the tires, I also cleaned all of the brakes, rotors, and drums with brake cleaner, and sprayed that disk quieter stuff on them to stop that screeching.

About a week later, ABS and Traction Control light start to intermittently come on again.

Wife complains of "jerking" again and this time there's a loss of acceleration. The engine "sounds rough." ABS and Traction Lights come on permanently.

I take it to O'Reilly's to see if there are any codes so I can figure out which sensor to change. There are no codes.

Noticed on my drive back that the Jeep does not seem to want to shift. It hangs up at 2K rpms, then when it does shift, it hangs at 3k rpms. Couldn't get over 40 until I started down a hill and it shifted again.

Read that the spark plugs could be bad, so I changed them. No change to performance.

Tried to do the reset trick. Discharge positive cable, reconnect cable, key to start, lights on, lights off, key off. No change.

I was thinking about just starting to replace sensors one at a time until it's fixed, but then I saw it could be the clock spring, abs pump module, or even the TIPM, and probably a bunch of other stuff I haven't found in google yet.

Please point me in the right direction, so I don't have to carpool with my wife! I like to relax on my drives, but she is a freaking chatterbox! Also, don't tell her I said that.

Thanks in advance for the assistance!
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 09:02 PM
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Welcome! You've got a pile of problems. Just a long shot here, but I once had a Bravada that was giving me ABS issues and it turned out to be the wheel bearing. As it wore the tire got looser and tipped ever so slightly into the sensor. As for the sluggishness, if the ABS is getting bad info, it could be braking a wheel unnecessarily.

You didn't mention ball joints. Tire cupping is a classic symptom of bad ball joints. I'm surprised the tire place didn't mention that since they should want to do the work.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 10:30 PM
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You didn’t say if it is 2 WD or 4WD, I would guess that if you put 2 new tires with 2 old tires even on a 2 WD that it would mess with tracktion control and ABS because of different rotation speed. As for the rear brake squeal my 14 patriot done that from day one, I cleaned the drums and shoes didn’t do any good. I put on new shoes from mopar didn’t do any good. Took them off and lnstaled Duralast shoes from autozone haven’t heard a squeal for the last 40,000 miles.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 10:32 PM
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I forgot to mention that the jerking and lose of acceleration could be a throttle body.
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MODS=Remote start.Chrome grill inserts & door handles, Chrome mirror covers,headlight & tail light trim. 2 din radio with DVD, navigation and back up cam. Curt Trailer hitch, Oil cooler & trailer light wire harness. Parking sensors. Automatic headlights.Dash cam. Rear 12v power outlets. 120 AC 800w power inverter.

My vehicles
2014 Jeep Patriot
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1930 modal A Ford 4dr town sedan
1946 Ercoupe 415C Airplane

Last edited by geddisleroy; 04-08-2019 at 10:35 PM.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geddisleroy View Post
. . . I would guess that if you put 2 new tires with 2 old tires even on a 2 WD that it would mess with tracktion control and ABS because of different rotation speed . . .
Been there. Done that. You're right. My symptom was more of a hesitation at speed, but I suppose the symptoms could show differently under different conditions.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 08:21 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry, I did forget about telling you guys it's a 2WD. You guys are giving me great advice though. I really appreciate it. I'll check bearings, ball joints first. If the different tires are the problem, does that mean I basically have to buy 4 new tires so the abs will function properly?
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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Also, the jerking only happens when the lights are off. It'll start the jerking until the abs and traction control lights come on. Then it's just the acceleration issue. I may be way off, but I was thinking it was because the sensors are thinking the Jeep is losing traction when it clearly is not. Then the abs light probably comes on because it defaults to turn the system off when the signals are messed up. The jerking is probably just the traction control attempting to gain control of the Jeep even though it doesn't need it. I barely know what I'm talking about so let me know if that is unlikely. Thanks again for the help!
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 10:24 AM
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Usually it's the 4x4 models that have issues if the tire diameters are more than maybe 1/8th inch different. 2wd I'm not sure that would be a thing, though it's certainly possible. If you bought your new tires within the past month or two, I'd say you're safe to just get another two of the same make/model/size if that does turn out to be the issue. Spark plugs are like $10-$15 if you get the stock NGK coppers though($25 if you get Champion double-platinum like I did....don't forget to gap them properly), and a throttle body is a sub-$100 part that needs replaced every so often anyway and I'm told is easy to replace, so those would be wise to take care of before buying new tires.

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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abncivilian View Post
Also, the jerking only happens when the lights are off. It'll start the jerking until the abs and traction control lights come on. Then it's just the acceleration issue. I may be way off, but I was thinking it was because the sensors are thinking the Jeep is losing traction when it clearly is not. Then the abs light probably comes on because it defaults to turn the system off when the signals are messed up. The jerking is probably just the traction control attempting to gain control of the Jeep even though it doesn't need it. I barely know what I'm talking about so let me know if that is unlikely. Thanks again for the help!
This is because once the lights come on it is (at least partially) disabling the system. So the jerking you are feeling is the system seeing a fault and attempting to correct it by applying the brakes the the wheel or wheels that it thinks have lost traction. When it realizes it can't correct the issue, it turns on the light and disables the system. After that the vehicle is operating in a "safe mode" that will limit certain aspects of the vehicles performance until the condition is cleared.
I am with the others here that said tires. Mixing different size tires is never advisable unless the vehicle is designed that way. And if you replace two tires with new units with nice deep tread, and leave two older tires on the vehicle with partially worn tread the new and old wheels will spin at different RPM's at the same vehicle speed. This makes the traction control freak out. This condition is most common on all wheel drive vehicles, followed by 4 wheel drive vehicles. It does however also apply to 2 wheel drive vehicles with 4 wheel abs and traction control systems. The solution, or at least the start of the solution is to replace the two old tires with new tires that match the other new ones. until that happens you are just replacing sensors and components on the chance it goes away. Different size tires is the most likely culprit given the information you have shared. If it still happens after you replace tires, you have eliminated the most likely culprit and at least you have good tires on the vehicle. Then you can start looking at sensors and other likely components.
As for the brakes, your likely only solution there is to replace the pads/shoes. My advice when you do is to buy good, high quality replacements. Stay away from the 12 dollar bargain pads/shoes. They are noisy and makes tons of dust. Make sure you are buying ceramic brake pads. they will cost twice as much as the bargain brake pads, but will be worth it, and still 30 bucks hopefully doesn't break the bank. they are easy to change if you have a jack a few hand tools and 2 hours on a Saturday. Watch a you tube video if you have never done it before, and just don;t forget to "pump the brakes up" before putting it in gear and moving the vehicle after the change. My father in laws garage door could tell a funny story about that......

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Last edited by DangerAaron; 04-09-2019 at 02:17 PM.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 04:38 PM
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YES.

MODS=Remote start.Chrome grill inserts & door handles, Chrome mirror covers,headlight & tail light trim. 2 din radio with DVD, navigation and back up cam. Curt Trailer hitch, Oil cooler & trailer light wire harness. Parking sensors. Automatic headlights.Dash cam. Rear 12v power outlets. 120 AC 800w power inverter.

My vehicles
2014 Jeep Patriot
2002 Chevrolet Silverado p/u.
1930 modal A Ford 4dr town sedan
1946 Ercoupe 415C Airplane
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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We are just going to go and buy two matching tires to put on there tomorrow. We have only had the two new tires about a month, so they are pretty much new. Hopefully, that will take care of the issue. I'll update this and let you know if that was the reason for my problems. I am still going to check the bearings and ball joints to make sure they are good. I already changed the plugs. Will the ABS and Traction control lights turn off and go back to normal, or will I need to reset them somehow?

I still got a while before my brake need changed, but when I do change them, I always get the ceramic ones. Luckily, cleaning them and spraying the brake disc quieter stuff on them stopped the screeching. If they start that again, I will just replace them though. That sound was like nails on a chalkboard, but at 80 decibels!

Thanks again for all the information!
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 05:45 PM
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If the systems are functioning OK the lights should go out. Even the CEL will go out after three successful cycles it it isn't triggered by whatever caused it in the first place.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
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Well, bought two identical tires. Didn't work. I tried to do the reset trick to clear the lights and factory reset the ecm, but either I'm doing it wrong or it's not resetting. I guess I'll try bearings and sensors next. What a pain to deal with...
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 05:41 PM Thread Starter
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Bearings were good. My neighbor is bringing his scan tool home from work tonight to figure out what's wrong. Hopefully, he'll be able to figure it out. Case of beer is already bought. 🍻 Lol
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 08:23 PM Thread Starter
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His scan tool read issue with the front right abs wheel speed sensor. Replaced it and, of course, no change... Not sure what to do next. It's very frustrating though, I can tell you that much...
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