1 Year Later and I still Like my Cherokar! - Page 2 - Jeep Patriot Forums
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post #16 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-16-2018, 11:01 AM
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Hahaha! I have (and love) both a V6 Cherk Trailhawk and a 2.4L FDII Pat and there is NO comparison! The Cherokee will toss heads into the headrests, the Pat asks me get out and help push! Using the same on-ramps, the Cherk is at speed when the white lines come together, the Pat uses most of the merge lane getting close enough to speed that someone has to let me over.
There's no "barely faster" about it, it's like a Maserati vs a moped!

I just got crop-dusted by my dog, now I can't think of anything else, so that's just going to have to do for a signature.

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post #17 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-16-2018, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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Hahaha! I have (and love) both a V6 Cherk Trailhawk and a 2.4L FDII Pat and there is NO comparison! The Cherokee will toss heads into the headrests, the Pat asks me get out and help push! Using the same on-ramps, the Cherk is at speed when the white lines come together, the Pat uses most of the merge lane getting close enough to speed that someone has to let me over.
There's no "barely faster" about it, it's like a Maserati vs a moped!
Having the extra power and speed is nice, I did test drive a 2.4L Trailhawk Cherokee and honestly compared my FDII, the FDII felt faster. The speed is just a bonus. One thing my FDII could never touch is the mileage. I routinely get 8L/100kms on the highway in the summer. I can't wait for warmer temps again to see what kind of effect the manifold TB and tune had on mileage. The tuner said mileage should go up, which is nice but at the same time i pay 21 cents more a liter for my 94 octane gas

I"m just going to patiently wait for some timeslips from Mr Rosso. He said 17 seconds and change, so timeslips are nice. He should know by now I like facts not feelings and opinions

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post #18 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-16-2018, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDONE View Post
Hahaha! I have (and love) both a V6 Cherk Trailhawk and a 2.4L FDII Pat and there is NO comparison! The Cherokee will toss heads into the headrests, the Pat asks me get out and help push! Using the same on-ramps, the Cherk is at speed when the white lines come together, the Pat uses most of the merge lane getting close enough to speed that someone has to let me over.
There's no "barely faster" about it, it's like a Maserati vs a moped!
Having the extra power and speed is nice, I did test drive a 2.4L Trailhawk Cherokee and honestly compared my FDII, the FDII felt faster. The speed is just a bonus. One thing my FDII could never touch is the mileage. I routinely get 8L/100kms on the highway in the summer. I can't wait for warmer temps again to see what kind of effect the manifold TB and tune had on mileage. The tuner said mileage should go up, which is nice but at the same time i pay 21 cents more a liter for my 94 octane gas[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/JeepPatriot_2016/smilies/tango_face_devil.png[/IMG]

I"m just going to patiently wait for some timeslips from Mr Rosso. He said 17 seconds and change, so timeslips are nice. He should know by now I like facts not feelings and opinions
Those Cherokees carry a lot of weight for the 2.4. 🤔
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post #19 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-17-2018, 12:39 AM
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Not sure where I put the timeslips, it's been awhile since I actually went. Out on the road for the next 10 days or so, but I'd be happy to look around for them when I get home. And believe it or not I was trying to hold off our well-known difference on the FCA false advertising you fell for with that rig, in my previous post. Haven't driven my Jeep much lately as the exhaust pipe rattled through the fuel tank and I'd been looking for a fuel cell to stick in there and increase capacity while having safer storage. But no shop wants to do that and the legality of having a non-OEM fuel cell is rather questionable at the moment. So I'm stuck looking for a cheap used 13.5 gallon OEM tank as a replacement if I want my Jeep back for the winter, because the 2003 Impala that I have as a secondary is kinda scary to drive in the snow, not to mention the dealer not wanting to remove the DRL/autolight systems. Lots of crap to do at the moment to make a living so the Baja keeps getting put on the back burner because $$$$. You know as well as anybody that I would have been there already if I could have even halfway reasonably budgeted it. But I'm not anywhere near being able to afford it, those with money won't invest(which I've come around to wanting to earn it anyways), those who wanna help can't afford to, and I'm not gonna put myself into debt for something that even I know has a chance of failing. I'm all too painfully aware of the fact I've not been blessed with the means to do this so far. No need to be sarcastically reminded of it because I made a friendly post joking around saying that my 3200-pound 4-banger with a potentially explosive CVT was almost as fast as your 4000-pound V6 with a similarly explosive 9-spd. Like srsly, I seem to recall I didn't mention anything about the false badging or overgeared transmission in my first post in this thread. Just comparing notes on quarter-mile times.

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post #20 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-17-2018, 11:00 AM
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It's not a "friendly post" when you repeatedly, tiredly, obnoxiously trash a car you've never owned and clearly know nothing about.

Numerous publications from TFL to Petersen's have put it head to head against XJs and others just to say it deserves it's badges. I've owned several XJs and ZJs, and still own 3 FSJs (Wagoneer and 2 J-10s), the KLTH is hands down the best off-road right out of the box of ANY full-bodied Jeep that preceded it. I haven't had the chance to wheel a Grand Cherokee Trialhawk, but it might be better still.

The point being made towards you, is that if you want to poop on someone else, you need something of your own to stand on. Trying to crap uphill just makes you look sh***y.

I just got crop-dusted by my dog, now I can't think of anything else, so that's just going to have to do for a signature.
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post #21 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-17-2018, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RossoRacer View Post
Not sure where I put the timeslips, it's been awhile since I actually went. Out on the road for the next 10 days or so, but I'd be happy to look around for them when I get home. And believe it or not I was trying to hold off our well-known difference on the FCA false advertising you fell for with that rig, in my previous post. Haven't driven my Jeep much lately as the exhaust pipe rattled through the fuel tank and I'd been looking for a fuel cell to stick in there and increase capacity while having safer storage. But no shop wants to do that and the legality of having a non-OEM fuel cell is rather questionable at the moment. So I'm stuck looking for a cheap used 13.5 gallon OEM tank as a replacement if I want my Jeep back for the winter, because the 2003 Impala that I have as a secondary is kinda scary to drive in the snow, not to mention the dealer not wanting to remove the DRL/autolight systems. Lots of crap to do at the moment to make a living so the Baja keeps getting put on the back burner because $$$$. You know as well as anybody that I would have been there already if I could have even halfway reasonably budgeted it. But I'm not anywhere near being able to afford it, those with money won't invest(which I've come around to wanting to earn it anyways), those who wanna help can't afford to, and I'm not gonna put myself into debt for something that even I know has a chance of failing. I'm all too painfully aware of the fact I've not been blessed with the means to do this so far. No need to be sarcastically reminded of it because I made a friendly post joking around saying that my 3200-pound 4-banger with a potentially explosive CVT was almost as fast as your 4000-pound V6 with a similarly explosive 9-spd. Like srsly, I seem to recall I didn't mention anything about the false badging or overgeared transmission in my first post in this thread. Just comparing notes on quarter-mile times.

Not sure where I put the timeslips
Its called image hosting...




FCA false advertising you fell for with that rig

What false advertising?

It does everything my patriot/compass could do and more and gets better fuel economy while doing it.

Haven't driven my Jeep much lately as the exhaust pipe rattled through the fuel tank and I'd been looking for a fuel cell to stick in there and increase capacity while having safer storage

Please tell me again how my Fiat is a piece of trash because your vehicle literally fell apart? In the 8 years of MK ownership that never happened to me.

You know as well as anybody that I would have been there already if I could have even halfway reasonably budgeted it

Cool story bro, things cost money but when you run your mouth as much as you do, you better have some money and cold hard FACTS to back up your statements, none of which you have ever been able to do.

No need to be sarcastically reminded of it because I made a friendly post joking around saying that my 3200-pound 4-banger with a potentially explosive CVT was almost as fast as your 4000-pound V6 with a similarly explosive 9-spd

4600lbs at full race weight, and your definition of "almost" and others probably varies quite a lot.

The 9 speed is not overgeared, its funny because I see 9th gear on the highway when the conditions are right



You go drive at that speed for long distances and tell me you get the same mileage from your "undergeared" patriot.

I really do get it though, you talk big and have no means to ever back it up.

I've always had plans for vehicles and put my money where my mouth is to prove myself and others wrong(at some points) for the benefit of the community.

You can keep all your pot shots and "opinions" of FCA going and i'll be there to back them with facts every time.
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post #22 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-17-2018, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDONE View Post
It's not a "friendly post" when you repeatedly, tiredly, obnoxiously trash a car you've never owned and clearly know nothing about.

Numerous publications from TFL to Petersen's have put it head to head against XJs and others just to say it deserves it's badges. I've owned several XJs and ZJs, and still own 3 FSJs (Wagoneer and 2 J-10s), the KLTH is hands down the best off-road right out of the box of ANY full-bodied Jeep that preceded it. I haven't had the chance to wheel a Grand Cherokee Trialhawk, but it might be better still.

The point being made towards you, is that if you want to poop on someone else, you need something of your own to stand on. Trying to crap uphill just makes you look sh***y.

I"ve always wanted a WK2 Trailhawk. The upside to them VS a KL is the ground clearance as they have quadralift air suspension which can go up to 10.5" of ground clearance vs the 8.7" of a KL TH stock.

The WK2's have an Eaton E-locker in the rear diff, so while its not selectable like on a KL it functions nearly identical. Both are solid vehicle offroad but i'd give the nod to the WK2 only in terms of "toughness" but a nice WK2 is still about 20K more than my KL TH was with the same options.

On the topic of toughness, your CV axles Daniel will be murdered offroad Baja racing. I'm the one that inquired with RCV about axles and they won't make any.



Here is MK front CV's




KL Front CV's




Don't worry though i'll be Baja racing in a KL before you ever will, since RCV is making axles for the KL

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post #23 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 12:41 PM
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I feel like I have had this discussion with Rosso many times. His "cherokar" and "reneGAYed" comments are obtuse and unwelcome. It's as bad the the "not a REAL jeep" statements from the short sighted wrangler crowd. I've tried to express it and he still persists. All while he has limped his "cartriot" along trying to make it do something it was never meant to do. It would be laughable if it hadn't been going for so long at this point.
I have both an FDii MK and a Grand Cherokee limited. The Grand Cherokee is hands down superior off road. Better ground clearance (not just numbers, but the way everything is laid out leaves less hanging down) more power, and a real transfer case. The MK is great for what it is, but it is not an off-road machine. It's a car based CUV with surprising capability. I actually did a lot of research prior to buying the Grand cherokee and afterwards stayed away from the air suspension. It was a point of failure that a lot of people didn't like and also made lifting the platform much more difficult. So while it looks good on paper, everything I read and experiences shared with me from other owners, told me to stay away from the air ride system.
I will also say that I helped dig an '18 Compass out of the sand this year at the beach and had no problems with the same section in my Patriot. Perhaps being FDii was more of a factor than I thought, but the other owner was experienced in the sand and did everything else right, and I never used any of the FDii specific features to get through the section. (lots of deep soft sand where momentum is key and the FDii's "low range" would just bog down and prevent momentum instead of enhancing it) I am just not a fan of the Aesthetics of the renegade or the cherokee, but I see a lot of them out in the sand and they seem to do just as well as my FDii. I am jealous of the Cherokee's driveline. available locker, V6, and no CVT..... Pop the Patriot body on that and I'd be lined up to buy it.

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post #24 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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I feel like I have had this discussion with Rosso many times. His "cherokar" and "reneGAYed" comments are obtuse and unwelcome. It's as bad the the "not a REAL jeep" statements from the short sighted wrangler crowd. I've tried to express it and he still persists. All while he has limped his "cartriot" along trying to make it do something it was never meant to do. It would be laughable if it hadn't been going for so long at this point.
I have both an FDii MK and a Grand Cherokee limited. The Grand Cherokee is hands down superior off road. Better ground clearance (not just numbers, but the way everything is laid out leaves less hanging down) more power, and a real transfer case. The MK is great for what it is, but it is not an off-road machine. It's a car based CUV with surprising capability. I actually did a lot of research prior to buying the Grand cherokee and afterwards stayed away from the air suspension. It was a point of failure that a lot of people didn't like and also made lifting the platform much more difficult. So while it looks good on paper, everything I read and experiences shared with me from other owners, told me to stay away from the air ride system.
I will also say that I helped dig an '18 Compass out of the sand this year at the beach and had no problems with the same section in my Patriot. Perhaps being FDii was more of a factor than I thought, but the other owner was experienced in the sand and did everything else right, and I never used any of the FDii specific features to get through the section. (lots of deep soft sand where momentum is key and the FDii's "low range" would just bog down and prevent momentum instead of enhancing it) I am just not a fan of the Aesthetics of the renegade or the cherokee, but I see a lot of them out in the sand and they seem to do just as well as my FDii. I am jealous of the Cherokee's driveline. available locker, V6, and no CVT..... Pop the Patriot body on that and I'd be lined up to buy it.

I was really hoping for the 4 Cylinder Active Drive 2 drivetrain to go into the new compass, which is available in the cherokee. The 184hp on a 4000lb+ vehicle makes it super slow BUT the low range makes it no different than the V6 powered cherokees offroad.

The power of low range offroad can't be substituted for anything.

Even Cherokee's can bog down.


Here is my friends 2015 Trailhawk, stock even with crap all season tires, up a slippery hill the BLD's just lock up and bog everything down. Use 4-low (without the locker) and everything is fine. I seldom use the rear locker unless i'm in something really hairy.

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post #25 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler-98-W68 View Post
I was really hoping for the 4 Cylinder Active Drive 2 drivetrain to go into the new compass, which is available in the cherokee. The 184hp on a 4000lb+ vehicle makes it super slow BUT the low range makes it no different than the V6 powered cherokees offroad.

The power of low range offroad can't be substituted for anything.

Even Cherokee's can bog down.

Here is my friends 2015 Trailhawk, stock even with crap all season tires, up a slippery hill the BLD's just lock up and bog everything down. Use 4-low (without the locker) and everything is fine. I seldom use the rear locker unless i'm in something really hairy.
Yeah, I feel like a lot of people don't realize how important a true low range gear case is. Most of the off-road adventures I have are in the sand. In the sand, low range really doesn't get you anything unless it's one of those "already too late" circumstances. (like airing down your tires after you get stuck) In almost all other forms of off road driving a true low range, multiplying the torque output of the engine/transmission, is unequaled. I feel like Jeep did the best they could with the MK platform and the CVT. There is zero doubt in my mind that Chrysler gave them a Caliber and told them to "Jeep it up". It's not like the MK was a ground up build for Jeep.
I know that a lot of MK owners would love a transfer case and locking differential, (active drive 2) but I can also see a lot of snapped axle shafts and broken suspension parts had they gone that route. I'm not sure if the new Compass using more robust parts in those areas than the original MK.
They really have to walk a fine line between trying to offer the capability that made them famous and designing vehicles people will actually pay for that also meet EPA and safety standards. The Current line up from Jeep looks to me like they have decided to try and meet several markets. Those who consider themselves "hardcore Jeepers" will hate that. But, they have to sell vehicles to survive and as well as wranglers sell, it's not enough to keep them in business. We as consumers have to decide which is more important in the Price-Aesthetics-Utility-Capability equation.
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post #26 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
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The FDII MK's were unmatched in their category for offroad performance, the Renegade and New Compass MP are still the same. The thing is it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to make or (could have made) the MK's more offroad oriented because Jeep has other models for precisely that reason that being offroad performance unmatched in whatever segment you look at.

My 2014 ADII V6 Cherokee beat the pants off my Compass simply because of the low range, it was however a more expensive vehicle too.

On the renegades and new Compass, sadly the CV axles are still rather small so i'm not sure how robust they are, but I don't hear a lot of failures due to lifting either.

If I would have known how little offroading I would be doing in the future I may have fixed up my compass, but like I said before It needed lots of work. With all the highway driving I do now the mileage is noticeably better that either of my MK's were (Granted FDII's got the worst mileage)

Until you drive something or wheel something with low range, like you said most people have no idea how much difference it makes.

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post #27 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 01:26 PM
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The only time low range doesn't help is sand dune climbing and mud bogging, you can't substitute gearing for HP in that instance. The low range however can help you get unstuck and up to speed more quickly.
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post #28 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
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Mud bogging, something neither a KL or MK has any business doing.

The closest to mud bogging in my friend's KL



2016 Cherokee Trailhawk V6
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Hazzard Sky Lift + Bilstien B6
HP Tuners Tuned 93 Octane
Ported 80MM Throttlebody
Ported Intake Manifold
DDM Tuning 55W HID
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Noco Gen1 Mini Onboard Battery Charger
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post #29 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-22-2018, 02:32 PM
 
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when I switched from my patriot to my XJ cherokee, the difference couldn't have been more stark. Night and day. And its all down to the low range. My ford ranger (well mazda B4000) is the same way, the low range means a world of difference. I pushed my patriot through some of the toughest trails I could bring it on in AZ, and my cherokee walked through the same trails like they were paved roads.

My ONLY issues with the KL are 1) it's ugly, even the facelift is ugly. My uncle has a TH, and has taken me off road in it, AMAZING vehicle, When i turn around and look at it I go "yuck" every time! . and 2) I wish they had keep the liberty name or given it its own name. Kinda like Mitsubishi is doing with the "eclipse" name and slapping it on an SUV. the original XJ and the KL are just far to different to me to carry the same name plate.

I WISH the new Compass had the low range the KL has. Seriously I would own one now. I like the way it looks SO much better than the KL, the old compass, the renegade, and even the patriot.

Rosso is driving me nuts, trying to tell me his 18 year old Chevy is better than my 2015 q50... I'm sorry.. its just not. In no way shape or form is a more than 2 decade old platform, FWD, Malibu based Chevy better in any way than a modern Japanese luxury car. and in no way is a patriot Better than a KL (except maybe looks, I just cannot get over it).

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post #30 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-22-2018, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
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Mud bogging, something neither a KL or MK has any business doing.

The closest to mud bogging in my friend's KL


That 3.2 has some oomph! Wish it was in the MK platform instead...

Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundincircles View Post
when I switched from my patriot to my XJ cherokee, the difference couldn't have been more stark. Night and day. And its all down to the low range. My ford ranger (well mazda B4000) is the same way, the low range means a world of difference. I pushed my patriot through some of the toughest trails I could bring it on in AZ, and my cherokee walked through the same trails like they were paved roads.

My ONLY issues with the KL are 1) it's ugly, even the facelift is ugly. My uncle has a TH, and has taken me off road in it, AMAZING vehicle, When i turn around and look at it I go "yuck" every time! <img src="https://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" class="inlineimg" /> . and 2) I wish they had keep the liberty name or given it its own name. Kinda like Mitsubishi is doing with the "eclipse" name and slapping it on an SUV. the original XJ and the KL are just far to different to me to carry the same name plate.

I WISH the new Compass had the low range the KL has. Seriously I would own one now. I like the way it looks SO much better than the KL, the old compass, the renegade, and even the patriot.

Rosso is driving me nuts, trying to tell me his 18 year old Chevy is better than my 2015 q50... I'm sorry.. its just not. In no way shape or form is a more than 2 decade old platform, FWD, Malibu based Chevy better in any way than a modern Japanese luxury car. and in no way is a patriot Better than a KL (except maybe looks, I just cannot get over it).
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