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  #1  
Old 09-08-2010, 03:23 PM
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Engine Swap?

Has anyone looked into swaping the stock 2.4LVVT with a SRT4 2.4L Turbo or a PT Cruiser GT 2.4L Turbo engine? i would be way more interested in doing that rather than using the stock engine. My only concern would be that i would loose my 4x4. But could i keep AWD? is there a tranny that will even bolt up right? hmmm....just a thought... i am definatly looking into it as well to see the options. If it is possible, i would be interested in snaggin an engine and havin it built by AMS then install it in my Patriot... bad ass! thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 09-08-2010, 05:07 PM
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  #3  
Old 09-08-2010, 05:49 PM
nth256 nth256 is offline
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First, search.

Second, yes, it's been thought about. To elaborate on what tiptronic said, the turbo engine from the CSRT4 required modifications to be made to the sheetmetal at the front of the vehicle, making it somewhat different from the standard Caliber/Patriot/Compass. There are some folks w/ Caliber R/T's that have done the work on after-market turbos, to some good results.

Third, you can't simply swap the turbo engine from a PT Turbo or an NSRT4. the electronics which run the older model engines are vastly different than those that run the MK platform vehicles. Plus, IIRC, the engine in the NSRT4 and the PT Turbo is a cast-iron block, and ours is an aluminum block. You'd be adding a couple hundred pounds extra to the front of the vehicle in engine block weight alone, not to mention ancillaries and turbo piping. Besides which, the tranny is different, and you'd need to fab up engine and tranny mounts... but, throw enough money and elbow grease at it, and you can do anything (google the PT Bruiser sometime).

More interesting, perhaps, is what's going on w/ the Mistubishi Lancer platform, which may or may not be compatible with our car. The engines are not the same between the Pat/Compass/Caliber and the Lancer, but VERY similar (they were both designed and built by GEMA for a time), perhaps similar enough that parts swapping is possible. There is a large source of aftermarket performance parts for the Lancer (did some research today - you folks w/ 4x4 may have an option for aftermarket headers yet!), and a MUCH larger community of tuners than we have. The Patriot may just be a wolf in Jeep's clothing, ripe for tuning and modification.

Likewise, I've got a hunch that the V6 engine from a newer Dodge Avenger may fit in the 'riot as well... No basis for this yet, other than shared platform and lower-end engine options between the Pat/Compass/Caliber and the Avenger. Still researching this.

Not shooting down your ideas, but yes, it's been thought about.


And one more point to make: If you drop 4x4, you drop AWD. You can't have one without the other. What we refer to as 4x4 on this forum is actually FDII AWD system. It can act as a true "4x4" system, but all said, it's a modified FDI AWD setup that is set up for lower gearing and better traction control.

Last edited by nth256; 09-08-2010 at 05:53 PM.
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  #4  
Old 09-09-2010, 12:54 PM
Stonent Stonent is offline
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I was under the impression that the GEMA 2.4L engine was mostly Hyundai in design?

Quote:

Chrysler's GEMA engines
GEMA produces a single family of 4-cylinder engines with variable valve timing, marketed by Chrysler as the World Engine. The range starts with a 1.8 L unit which will principally find use throughout the world, and includes 2.0 L and 2.4 L variants which will find use in the United States. Turbocharged and supercharged versions may also be produced, as in Chrysler's similar Tritec engine.

Chrysler expects to use the GEMA family of engines in nine other models and projects that it will buy up to 840,000 GEMA engines annually.

The initial design of the engine block was handled by Hyundai. It features siamesed bores, meaning that there is no coolant flow between cylinders. The aluminum block has cast iron cylinder liners, and different liners can be fitted to alter the engine's bore.

The heads feature electro-hydraulic variable valve timing on both the intake and exhaust side. The system was based on that used by the recent Mercedes-Benz 24-valve V6 and is quite sophisticated and expensive for a low-end engine. A variable tumble control system creates air tumbles in the intake runners at low rpms for better mixture. Valves are directly actuated by solid Bucket tappets.

[edit] 1.8
The GEMA 1.8 L I-4 is a dual overhead cam (DOHC) inline 4-cylinder gasoline engine capable of 148 hp (110 kW) and 125 ftlbf (169 Nm) of torque.[7] The engine has displacement of 109.7 in (1,798 cc) with a bore of 3.38 in (86 mm) and a stroke of 3.05 in (77 mm).[7] The compression ratio is 10.5:1.[7]

The 1.8 L DOHC inline 4 cylinder engine served as the standard engine in the Dodge Caliber SE and SXT trim for the 2007-2009 model years.

Applications:

2007-2009 Dodge Caliber SE and SXT, 148 hp (110 kW) 125 ftlbf (169 Nm) torque
[edit] 2.0
The 2.0 L GEMA DOHC inline 4-cylinder gasoline engine capable of 158 hp (118 kW) and produces 141 ftlbf (191 Nm) of torque. The engine has a displacement of 121.9 in (1,998 cc) with a bore of 3.38 in (86 mm) and a stroke of 3.38 in (86 mm).[8] The compression ratio of the engine is 10.5:1.[8] The 2.0 L GEMA engine is offered by Dodge in the Dodge Caliber. Outside North America, the 2.0 is be the base engine for the 2007 Chrysler Sebring and 2008 Dodge Avenger.

Applications:

Dodge Caliber SE and SXT, 158 hp (118 kW) and 141 ftlbf (191 Nm) torque
Jeep Patriot (4x2 models only)
Jeep Compass (4x2 models only)
Dodge Avenger (outside North America)
Chrysler Sebring (outside North America)
[edit] 2.4
The 2.4 L, 173 hp (129 kW) GEMA engine is used by Dodge in the R/T trim line of the Caliber. The dual overhead cam (DOHC) inline four-cylinder engine has 144 in (2,360 cc) of displacement with a bore of 3.46 in (88 mm) and a stroke of 3.82 in (97 mm).[9] A 285 hp (213 kW) turbocharged variant of this engine was used in the high-performance SRT-4 version of the Caliber.

The 2.4 engine is the standard engine in the North American 2007 Chrysler Sebring and 2008 Dodge Avenger. It is also used in the Jeep Compass and Patriot. The Jeep Liberty also used a 2.4 L 4-cylinder from 2002-2005, but this was based on the Neon design and should not be mistaken for the GEMA engine displacing 2.4 liters.

Applications:

2007- Chrysler Sebring
2008- Dodge Avenger
2007- Dodge Caliber R/T, 173 hp (129 kW) and SRT-4, 285 hp (213 kW)
2007- Jeep Compass
2007- Jeep Patriot
2009- Dodge Journey
As far as the V6's go. There was a 2.7L LH engine and a 3.5 EGJ engine.

(More cut and paste from Wikipedia)

Quote:
The 2.7 L (2736 cc, 167 CID) EER version debuted in 1998 and is built in Kenosha, Wisconsin. It is a DOHC 4-valve design. Bore is 86 mm and stroke is 78.5 mm. It is an aluminum block with cast-iron cylinder liners and aluminum heads. Output has varied depending on the application but typical was 200 hp (150 kW) at 5800 rpm with 190 pound-feet (258 Nm) of torque at 4850 rpm. In terms of emissions, this was a TLEV engine; it runs on regular-octane (87) gasoline. Compression when launched in 1998 was 9.7:1 (increased to 9.9:1 in the LX cars). Redline occurred at 6,464 rpm, originally; and at 6,600 rpm as revised for the LX. The 24 valves are actuated by hydraulic end-pivot roller followers and hydraulic lifters. Fuel injection was sequential for six ports for all engines.

The 2.7 differed from the 3.5 liter engine from which it was derived in many ways. The Magnum version featured a variable intake system to create a supercharging effect at different engine speeds. A three-row chain replaced the timing belt of the 3.5 liter engine, and the 2.7 in the LX also has electronic throttle control and an enhancement to the intake manifold (described in greater detail below), the former to allow for the use of electronic stability control.

In 2004, the 2.7 liter engine was adapted for use in the LX series of cars, dropping peak power to 189 hp (141 kW) at 6400 rpm and 190 pound-feet (258 Nm) of torque at 4,000 rpm; but increasing torque at launch and during mid-range operation for everyday driving. Chrysler claimed that part-throttle torque was increased by up to 10% in the primary driving range, 2100–3400 rpm.[1] Horsepower again dropped in 2009 on the LX cars to 178 hp (133 kW) on the Chrysler 300 and Charger, but remains at 189 for the Chrysler Sebring.[2]
3.5L Engine:

Quote:
SOHC
A single overhead camshaft was a major addition to the lineup for 1993. Introduced with the 3.5 L engine, this basic design spawned the DOHC 2.7 L Chrysler LH engine as well as the 3.2 L and new 4.0 L variants. All but the 2.7 and high-output 3.5 are produced at Trenton Engine in Trenton, Michigan.

The SOHC engine uses an engine block that is very similar to its pushrod ancestors. But the front of the block was modified for the camshaft drive, and the heads are entirely different. One major change was that the SOHC engine was originally designed for the longitudinal placement of the Chrysler LH platform, rather than the transverse engine design of the K-cars and minivans. Since the bottom end was the same, the engine could be produced on the same assembly line in Trenton as the pushrod engine.

1993–97 3.5 L engines are a non-interference engine meaning that the valves will not collide with the pistons in the event of a timing belt failure. The 1998–2001 3.2 L, the 1998–present 3.5 L, and the 2007–present 4.0 L engines are interference designs.

[edit] 3.5
This 3,518 cc (3.518 L; 214.7 cu in) engine is a version of the 3.3 but with a larger bore of 96 mm and the important addition of overhead cams. The 3.5 L version has an intake arrangement with two separate manifolds and throttle bodies connected with a crossover valve. This provides better low and midrange torque. The four valves per cylinder are driven by a single overhead camshaft as opposed to the conventional DOHC arrangement for multivalve engines. Another difference with the 3.5 as opposed to the 3.3 is the fact that the camshaft is timed to the crankshaft with a belt rather than a chain. The water pump is also driven by the timing belt on the 3.5, whereas on the 3.3, the accessory belt drives it.

At its debut in 1993, this engine produced 214 hp (160 kW) and 221 ftlbf (300 Nm) from a iron block and aluminium cylinder heads. The 3.5 L engine was redone entirely of aluminum in 1999 as the EGG high output, producing 247–253 hp (190 kW) at 6500 rpm with 250 ftlbf (339 Nm) of torque at 4000 rpm. Output from 2002–2004 for the standard output EGJ is 234 hp (174 kW) at 6000 rpm with 241 ftlbf (327 Nm) of torque at 4400 rpm. Also for 2002–2004, the EGK 3.5 L Special was built exclusively for the 300M Special, producing 255 hp and 258 ftlbf.

The EGJ is built in Trenton, MI. The EGG is built in Kenosha, WI. Both are still in production. The EGK version is no longer in production as of 2004.

Vehicles using the 3.5 include:

EGJ
Chrysler Sebring
Dodge Avenger
Chrysler Concorde
Chrysler LHS
Chrysler New Yorker
Dodge Intrepid
Eagle Vision
Plymouth Prowler

Last edited by Stonent; 09-09-2010 at 01:08 PM.
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  #5  
Old 09-13-2010, 10:42 AM
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well yal killed that idea, lolz! oh well...i think ill just stick with a CAI, exhaust and maybe some beefier cams
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  #6  
Old 09-13-2010, 11:31 AM
nth256 nth256 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonent View Post
I was under the impression that the GEMA 2.4L engine was mostly Hyundai in design?
A joint venture between Chrysler, Hyundai, and Mistubishi. I think Hyundai stepped out and Chrysler bought out Mitsubishi's shares, but not before Mitsubishi was able to put the GEMA platform to use in a couple of it's cars.
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  #7  
Old 10-31-2010, 05:03 PM
2drSRT4 2drSRT4 is offline
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So I'm guessing the CSRT4 turbo doesn't fit our cars at all? I'm was really hoping I could just slap it on and do some modification to the computer with bigger injectors, and a little bit of luck and tuning, and have it run pretty sweet. I don't know these new world engines much at all. I like the simplicity of a 1gn neon, being able to drop in the NSRT4 turbo on an early 2.4 block using the NSRT4 pistons/rods, water pump, etc. and fooling the computer a bit to run it all, or use MS to tune it.
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2drSRT4 View Post
So I'm guessing the CSRT4 turbo doesn't fit our cars at all? I'm was really hoping I could just slap it on and do some modification to the computer with bigger injectors, and a little bit of luck and tuning, and have it run pretty sweet. I don't know these new world engines much at all. I like the simplicity of a 1gn neon, being able to drop in the NSRT4 turbo on an early 2.4 block using the NSRT4 pistons/rods, water pump, etc. and fooling the computer a bit to run it all, or use MS to tune it.
As stated above, no, the CSRT4 engine will NOT fit in the Pat. The CSRT4 has it's own frame design forward of the firewall. All other Caliber models are the same frame as the Pat/Compass however.

NSRT4 and PT-turbo engines are of the older ECU-centric design, as opposed to the newer, "in-vehicle-network" CANBUS design. Not compatible. If you swapped in an NSRT4 engine, even if it fit and bolted up, you'd have to replace the entire wiring harness (or create a custom one), at which point you're invested into the thousands of dollars.

You can fit ANY engine into ANYTHING, given enough money, time and research. As for direct swap, well, these aren't Hondas.
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  #9  
Old 11-01-2010, 01:42 PM
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Sell your Patriot and buy a used Grand Cherokee if you want power.
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  #10  
Old 12-11-2010, 11:24 PM
2drSRT4 2drSRT4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nth256 View Post
As stated above, no, the CSRT4 engine will NOT fit in the Pat. The CSRT4 has it's own frame design forward of the firewall. All other Caliber models are the same frame as the Pat/Compass however.

NSRT4 and PT-turbo engines are of the older ECU-centric design, as opposed to the newer, "in-vehicle-network" CANBUS design. Not compatible. If you swapped in an NSRT4 engine, even if it fit and bolted up, you'd have to replace the entire wiring harness (or create a custom one), at which point you're invested into the thousands of dollars.

You can fit ANY engine into ANYTHING, given enough money, time and research. As for direct swap, well, these aren't Hondas.
You completely mis-read my post, and completely screwed up what I was asking/saying. I asked if the turbocharger would fit on our engine. No full engine swap. And when I was talking about the early SBEC 2.4 block, using NSRT4 pistons/rods, timing system, oiling system, etc. and dropping it into a neon! I keep forgetting that most of you aren't neon guys on here, so yeah it sounded a bit funny like that. Sorry for the mis-understanding, and sorry that you posted in-correctly.
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  #11  
Old 12-13-2010, 11:55 AM
nth256 nth256 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2drSRT4 View Post
You completely mis-read my post, and completely screwed up what I was asking/saying. I asked if the turbocharger would fit on our engine. No full engine swap. And when I was talking about the early SBEC 2.4 block, using NSRT4 pistons/rods, timing system, oiling system, etc. and dropping it into a neon! I keep forgetting that most of you aren't neon guys on here, so yeah it sounded a bit funny like that. Sorry for the mis-understanding, and sorry that you posted in-correctly.
When i saw "So I'm guessing the CSRT4 turbo doesn't fit our cars at all?", and with the thread title being specifically about engine swaps, i assumed you meant the whole engine. My bad.

I don't know about using any specific turbo, but the Caliber guys have put "a" turbo on an R/T (same engine/drivetrain as the Pat) with some good results. So yeah, it can be done - i think there's even a kit for it.
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:17 PM
2drSRT4 2drSRT4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nth256 View Post
When i saw "So I'm guessing the CSRT4 turbo doesn't fit our cars at all?", and with the thread title being specifically about engine swaps, i assumed you meant the whole engine. My bad.

I don't know about using any specific turbo, but the Caliber guys have put "a" turbo on an R/T (same engine/drivetrain as the Pat) with some good results. So yeah, it can be done - i think there's even a kit for it.
I guess I'm unfortunately going to have to go to the Caliber forums to see if the CSRT4 turbocharger fits our engine, and what mods they're doing to run it. I understand there's tuning and everything needed to be done to it. I can do that fine. More gas mileage though, in a car that already gets great gas mileage will be awesome though.
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  #13  
Old 12-16-2010, 02:44 PM
nth256 nth256 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2drSRT4 View Post
I guess I'm unfortunately going to have to go to the Caliber forums to see if the CSRT4 turbocharger fits our engine, and what mods they're doing to run it. I understand there's tuning and everything needed to be done to it. I can do that fine. More gas mileage though, in a car that already gets great gas mileage will be awesome though.
Yeah, i think that's your best bet. CaliberForumZ has a bunch of good heads, some of which are members here as well. Just replace your "Patriot Sport 4x2" with "Caliber R/T" and you'll find yourself in good company. Hell, they don't even mind if it IS a Patriot, they'll help you just the same.
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Old 12-16-2010, 11:07 PM
2drSRT4 2drSRT4 is offline
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I guess I'll be the guinea pig/pioneer. But when I go to the dealership 'cause of problems, I'll need a spare harness that is completely stock, and will need to put all my stock parts on =D Just so I don't get in trouble for it.
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