Rant: acquring a handgun in Chicago

[JamesNewJeep]

Originally Posted by Schoat333

It's weird to see how different some states are going with these gun laws. Our Governor just passed a law to allow concealed carry in bars...

I read that a bit earlier today...That sounds outright dangerous and scary. But time will tell....

[jloffermann]

I feel for the first post... Originally I'm from Idaho a very low crime rate and very relaxed gun laws compared to most i'de say at least 60% Then I get stationed in California don't get me wrong it's a beautiful area with lots of stuff esp. in my area but the gun laws are crazy!!!!!!!!

[Tony1911]

Originally Posted by JamesNewJeep

-arguing that guns increase the chance of murders/suicides/accidental shootings is an obvious conclusion.

It is a conclusion that is narrow minded to the point of maliciousness. To claim that increase in guns results in an increase in murders or suicides is to claim that people are out of control and the only thing keeping them from killing each other and themselves is that lacking firearms, they haven't the means to do so - a patently absurd claim.

Originally Posted by JamesNewJeep

I must first take safety training course given by a state approved instructor.
Reasonable and a good idea for newbies.

Really? Consider that I've owned pistols since age 15, have a little time in the military, and I am an active shooter in several multi-gun sports. Now, if I were to move to Chicago, you claim that making me go through a mandatory safety class would be a reasonable demand to make?

Lots of people have obtained training from other than state-sanctioned sources. Knowing the public sector, those non-government mandated sources are probably better ones, too. Now, I'm a stickler for safety, especially when it comes to guns, but demanding mandatory training classes strikes me as a sneaky way to restrict gun ownership.

Originally Posted by JamesNewJeep

I think there is a middle ground that allows the good guys to own and carry, and helps keep the bad guys from getting their hands on firearms.

And what kind of middle ground would that be? Consider that one can make a single-shot firearm with just a lenght of pipe, a rubber band and a rock - how will you prevent people from doing that without affecting the ability of normal people to obtain firearms for self-defense, sport, or as a safeguard against their government?

[Murman]

My dealings in Lassen County, CA for a CCW license.

A DD 214 can take the place of a HSC/Test ($20) in CA.

10 day wait between the purchase and possession of a new firearm from a gun store.

Fill out county SO CCW paperwork package and register with SO to get fingerprints/background check - $105

Attend a county SO approved gun safety/CCW law course - $105

Demonstrate proficiency with each (up to 3) weapon that will be on your CCW

Take proof of course/range work completion to SO, set up CCW interview with SO.

Upon completion of interview pay the two year license fee. - $50 Money Order (CA DOJ) and $5 bill (SO)

Every two years attend a refresher CCW law course, demonstrate proficiency with each (up to 3) weapon that will be on your CCW (no additional cost w/ my Instructor), renew license with SO - $50 Money Order (CA DOJ) and $5 bill (SO)

[croat]

Its good to have checks and balances in place - thats for sure ..... but there is a line from when it becomes a check/balance to a restrictive barrier (like Chicago).

[Lordy123]

Originally Posted by JamesNewJeep

I read that a bit earlier today...That sounds outright dangerous and scary. But time will tell....

Considering other states already have bills that do not allow bars to restrict concealed carry and they don't have anymore of a issue than states that don't; I'm fine with it. Not to mention every time I see a survey of "where do you keep your firearm(s)?" truck cabs and glove boxes are always high on the list. Does having a gun on you vs having to walk to the parking lot and get it really make that big of a difference in preventing a drunken crime? I think not.

[Schoat333]

Originally Posted by Lordy123

Considering other states already have bills that do not allow bars to restrict concealed carry and they don't have anymore of a issue than states that don't; I'm fine with it. Not to mention every time I see a survey of "where do you keep your firearm(s)?" truck cabs and glove boxes are always high on the list. Does having a gun on you vs having to walk to the parking lot and get it really make that big of a difference in preventing a drunken crime? I think not.

I agree, and disagree.

I'll explain.

Heres a scenario. A form of bar fight has escalated to the point that said shooter would go to his truck, get his gun, and then come back. By the time he gets to his truck, he has had a chance to think about what he is going to do, and may become smart suddenly, and stop.

If the gun was on him, he wouldn't have that short walk to think about it. Also, if the gun was on him, the gun would probably be pulled much earlier. Maybe the act of simply showing the gun would stop the fight without use, but if the carrier is drunk, that is probably not how it will work.

Now, I'm not saying I'm against allowing concealed carry in bars. I support it as long as the said carrier isn't consuming alcohol.

I have a CCW, but never carry when I'm drinking.

[MrMischief]

Originally Posted by JamesNewJeep

I read that a bit earlier today...That sounds outright dangerous and scary. But time will tell....

How's that dangerous or scary? You're still not allowed to drink and carry. Those criminals who drink and carry, are already doing so in the club.

[JamesNewJeep]

[quote: tony1911: Really? Consider that I've owned pistols since age 15, have a little time in the military, and I am an active shooter in several multi-gun sports. Now, if I were to move to Chicago, you claim that making me go through a mandatory safety class would be a reasonable demand to make?

Lots of people have obtained training from other than state-sanctioned sources. Knowing the public sector, those non-government mandated sources are probably better ones, too. Now, I'm a stickler for safety, especially when it comes to guns, but demanding mandatory training classes strikes me as a sneaky way to restrict gun ownership.[/QUOTE]

I am not saying that an experienced gun owner should be required to take the class. In my case as I have not owned or even fired a handgun, its probably a good idea. The places that provide these services are not owned by the state or city, either. They are local shops and instructors that have applied for and received a license to teach the requirements of the Chicago firearm permit. There are a dozen or so within my area.

Although, I am not sure if current gun owners are required to take the class, I am assuming they are...

Your points do bring another point of BS to mind....I could right now, legally obtain a shotgun or rifle, without any required classes, special city permit, or background check through the city. I would just need to register the gun with the city. Seems awful strange that handguns are more dangerous than shotguns and rifles...

Originally Posted by MrMischief

How's that dangerous or scary? You're still not allowed to drink and carry. Those criminals who drink and carry, are already doing so in the club.

Saying its legal to ccw in a bar, but NOT ccw and drink is not logical. Bars are there for a reason- to dispense alcohol. Why anyone would go to a bar with a gun, knowing they cannot drink if they are carrying, is beyond me. It just seems guns and alcohol are akin to cars and alcohol....you will heighten the possibility of an accident.

[MrMischief]

Originally Posted by JamesNewJeep

Saying its legal to ccw in a bar, but NOT ccw and drink is not logical. Bars are there for a reason- to dispense alcohol. Why anyone would go to a bar with a gun, knowing they cannot drink if they are carrying, is beyond me.

My first thought is that they either own the place and/or work there. Seems logical to me. The other is, they are there for dinner. I don't know this ohio law, but a lot of the laws say you that you can not carry a gun where alcohol is served. So no dining at applebees and carrying your concealed weapon.

[craig03]

I live in NH. We truly live by the saying "live free or die". In NH you dont need a permit to own or buy a gun, in fact the only time you need a permit is if you want to conceal it. So anyone (with our a domestic, felony, and over 21) can purchase a gun and walk down the street with it in a holder in open sight. Pretty much if you can buy a gun you can obtain a permit to conceal carry. I have a Glock 45 model 21, Ruger SR9C 9mm, Ruger 22, and a Sabre Defence AR15. I always have my 9mm on me concealed. I know I am safe as well as my family and knowbody knows I have a gun on me.