First I have to say that I love this concept. I always said that there is a niche in between serious off-roaders and "around the town" SUV's. Whereas the FJ Cruiser, Jeep Wrangler, and Hummer vehicles are impractical for most people, small SUV's like the Forester, CR-V and RAV4 don't have enough capability.

Also, it blew my mind that NOBODY could come up with an AWD vehicle that had off-road capability.

I think Jeep succeeded in creating a unique hybrid of off-road/on-road.

However, I think they failed in two areas. First, this thing is underpowered. I think the industry standard now days is at least 200 hp for an SUV. Otherwise, it is considered a toy. Case in point = turbo-charged Forester and the new V6 RAV 4. Even the CRV is planning to boost the power on upcoming models.

Yes, gas is a problem, but a simple turbo-charge didn't seem to hurt the mileage on the Forrester to greatly, and it provided a huge boost in guts. 173 hp to 230? And more importantly, it improved torque greatly.

For the Patriot to truly be a contender off-road, they need to boost the torque because 165 is dismal. Further, I don't think people want an underpowered vehicle on road.

My other problem is with the height of this vehicle. One of the major attractions for the SUV is that it allows you to have a higher viewing position than someone in a car. Without that, I'm not interested. That is why I would not buy a Forester...great vehicle, pansy stance. The Patriot is pretty small in terms of SUV height.

So, with all this said, what do you guys think would be the negatives of turbo-charging and lifting the supsension 2". The positives are higher stance, better off-road clearance, and more power. I figure there would be a bit of loss in gas mileage and it would impact the vehicles center of gravity. But this vehicle already should have great gas mileage and a fairly sound center of gravity due to its smaller stature.

Will there be a big impact in your opinions? Further, what do you think this would cost? I'm thinking at least $2500 extra. Is it likely that the Jeep dealer would install such a package without negating the warranty?

I (unfortunately) don't see your ideas going into fruition -- because of the Liberty. Many people (myself included) want to see a V6 or turbo-charger in the Patriot. But then that would likely put the Patriot in the same league as the Liberty -- and I doubt Jeep wants to have two of their own models competing against each other.* Seeing how popular the Liberty is, I don't see Jeep discontinuing it anytime soon (although look what they did with the Cherokee...).

Also, with regards to the turbo-charger, I know that in the Subaru models you need to run at least 92 octane, so while gas mileage may not be hit much, you'll be dropping an extra $0.10-$0.20 per gallon to fill up.

* The Patriot and Compass are different enough to where they will appeal to a different customer base. Jeep has said this over and over again, and I personally agree.

I (unfortunately) don't see your ideas going into fruition -- because of the Liberty. Many people (myself included) want to see a V6 or turbo-charger in the Patriot. But then that would likely put the Patriot in the same league as the Liberty -- and I doubt Jeep wants to have two of their own models competing against each other.* Seeing how popular the Liberty is, I don't see Jeep discontinuing it anytime soon (although look what they did with the Cherokee...).

Exactly right. I don't have the sales figures in front of me, but it seems that the Liberty has increased sales int he last year. I am seeing them everywhere in New York and New Jersey, and increasingly among businesses and law enforcement. A V6 Patriot would just be a Liberty in a different looking package. And since the Patriot has a CVT, its power is limited to under 200hp, as most cars with CVT's are either lightweight I4's or I4 / V6 hybrids. The Patriot should compete very well against the Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4, Subary Forester, and possibly the Honda Element.

From the specs on the Patriot, it is just a little smaller than the Cherokee. While some want a bigger vehicle, this would be perfect for my wife and I. We have "her" JGC if we need more room.

I'm more interested in the suspension. It is going to be heavier and more durable than the Compass' or Caliber's? I haven't read any specs other than the fully independent suspension.

Only time will tell on the durability of the new engine and CVT transmission. With 221,000+ miles on my XJ, I'm a little biased toward the 4.0 I6. Now add a turbo/supercharger to THAT engine and you'll get my attention real quick:-)

Is it true that the CVT limits the engine to 200hp??????? That is a major negative.

I would not want to buy this vehicle if that is the case. 173 Hp 165 torque is brutal in todays age....especially if this is an off-roader.

I understand that the Patriot would never come with a factory installed V6, turbo, or a lift kit....but I would consider upgrading out of factory.

I (unfortunately) don't see your ideas going into fruition -- because of the Liberty.

My problem with the Liberty is that it looks girly to me. No matter how they try to dress it up (i.e. head lights, brush guard, mud flaps), it looks like a Neon on steroids.

My problem with the Liberty is that it looks girly to me.

I feel the same way. We would never be having this issue if Jeep never discontinued the Cherokee to begin with!! :-P

On a side note, I have a 93 GC with a Magnum V8 engine. It has 173k on it and still runs like a champ. I love the fact that I still feel that the car is reliable even after so many miles. So the CVT durability issue is concerning me, too.

I know with the engine, a hardcore lift would be outta the question.

But out of curiosity, is anyone good at Photoshop? I'd be curious to see what 35"-36" tires with some fender trimming would look like on the Patriot. :-)

I don't think that a turbo will help the jeep when off-roading... unless you are baja'ing. if I'm not mistaken, turbo only really helps when the RMPs are in the higher portion. You need low end torque when rock cliimbing. Creeping up a hill in 1st gear in 4-lo is not going to get anything out of a turbo.

It's going to be interesting to see how they update the Liberty in a year or two--especially if the Dodge Nitro is a big seller.

My thoughts are that the Liberty will grow in lenght to what the Nitro is and have a lower profile. Will the Liberty new style be what it should have been when it replaced the XJ?

If the Patriot is a big seller (which I think it will be), will DCX consider re-introducing an updated Cherokee? While the Commander's and Patriot's styling isn't a "test", it must have opened DCX executives' eyes to the demand for the classic styling.

On a side note, we are going to look at a 2000 XJ, with 56,000 miles on it today:-)

I don't think that a turbo will help the jeep when off-roading... unless you are baja'ing. if I'm not mistaken, turbo only really helps when the RMPs are in the higher portion. You need low end torque when rock cliimbing. Creeping up a hill in 1st gear in 4-lo is not going to get anything out of a turbo.

I agree that the turbo charge may not help so much off road...but it does add torque, and the Patriot is likely to be driven on-road more often than off. 173 HP isn't up to todays standards in my opinion for on-road power.

I'm not one of those HP nuts....I'm not looking to boost this thing to 250HP...but 200 HP would be perfect. Unless the Patriot is very light, I don't see it having much zip at all.

As for the 2" lift...that is what I'd consider for off-road updating. Maybe some heavy duty shocks as well.

For me, the whole idea is to create something a little stronger without getting as expensive as the FJ Cruiser. Thankfully, Jeep made a product that will have AWD so you don't have to worry about shifting into Part-time 4WD when there is snow...

To me, Part-time 4WD is useless. I like to engage extra traction before I run into a bad situation. If the temp. reads 31 Degrees, and its raining....I want extra traction on because who can honestly see patches of black ice....but if you turn on you Part-time, you can risk screwing up you vehicle if the pavement is fairly dry.

Thus, the Wrangler, FJ, etc. have limited appeal to me. No doubt they are beasts off-road....but how will they perform in everyday slippery driving?....that inbetween time where there isn't an inch of snow everywhere? This is where the Patriot should have them beat. And the fact that it can be equipped to have a little fun is a massive bonus! However, I think it needs some out of factory extra's to make it the truly capable hybrid vehicle Jeep was shooting for.

I'm excited nonetheless, and I enjoy reading what others here feel and read about this new vehicle.

I am looking forward to getting more info, that's for sure.

I am concerned that it may be too cramped inside for my needs.

As for the turbo, I don't know how the trans. would like it. It may be difficult to get up to and stay in the turbos high RMP power band to get the most out of it.

Absolutely love this vehicle, styling, features, fuel economy.

As for everyone being concerened about the torque numbers, consider this. The Wrangler Rubicon has a 4:1 transfer case and about a 4:1 1st gear for a total of approx. 16:1 not taking into consideration the axle ratios which gives it a huge advantage when climbing. The Patriot will have an available 19:1 ratio provided by the CVT. This ratio will easily make up for the lack of torque from the engine output. Also this vehicle will not be near as heavy when compared to the Liberty with the V6. I think the 4 Cyl. will be sufficient. My biggest hope is that they will bring a european Diesel version to the US market. Then great torque, mpg, and a Patriot in my driveway would result.

Also, for the question about the CVT not being able to handle more than 200 HP. CVTs have been around for more than 20 years (virtually every snowmobile made has one) and Nissan has utilized them in 200+ HP applications for about 3-4 years (Murano),the '07 Altima V6 will use CVT, Ford 5 Hundred and several others. I don't see durability being an issue.

I have never seen anything get up and move like a snowmobile! They can out and out haul from the word go. I have seen them dog out going up too steep of a climb... this will definately have to be one of those I-need-to-try-it-myself sort of things.

I wish that they would have anoterh Jeep 101 come around this way... now that was a great way to see for your self how they handled off road... I wonder if the dealerships will let people test them when they arrive?

Diesel will be nice. I hate having to wait another couple years. The thing is we won;t wait We are trading in for a new family/daily driving/trail rig... it's getting hard narrowing the field down... especially when two of them are not even in the showroom to kick their proverbial tires!

I don't know if they'll let people test them off-road.....or on a homemade course like some Hummer sales offices....but I did read that the Jeep staff will be fully trained to answer all the questions that will surely surface about just how capable the Patriot is off-road.

I read something about that too. I'm not so sure. A while back, I learned that what one person considers spicy/hot in food is not necessarily what I consider spicy/hot or even medium/hot for that matter. I would want to test one my self.