Okay guys...Jeep claims the Patriot is the most capable vehicle in its class. Here is a vehicle with 4-Lo that I think Jeep is forgetting about, the Grand Vitara....and they have a video (http://www.suzuki.co.jp/escudo/promo_v.html).

Its in Japanese....but hit the second video on the left side. You won't be disappointed.

My message to Jeep......put up or shut up. Prices are close, engine is better, both with 4-lo...only this is a true transfer case. Also....we KNOW this vehicle has a suspension lift available.

Gotta admit it looks like the bar has been set a bit higher....

http://www.off-road.com/suzuki/press/2006_01/dune04.jpg

http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2005/11/15-suzuki-live-series-concepts/Suzuki%20Dune%20Concept.jpg

http://suzuki.off-road.com/suzuki/data/articlestandard/suzuki/182006/323971/dune_06.jpg

The second video looks a lot like the type of light wheeling I am into... I hope that the Patriot is up to the task, too. It looks like the GV already is.

PDX....can you imagine how much better that vehicle would have done if it had the lift we were looking at a few days ago?

It looks pretty sweet. Equiped one for around 25k, not bad.

Not the same class vehicle....GV is $5000 more. Not to mention it is a rear wheel drive vehicle. For that kind of money it will compete with Liberty and Grand Cherokee...not the Patriot.

I like it... something about the photos is saying photoshop to me though. I haven't put my finger on it... the tread pattern is too balance from tire to tire. I think it was a photoshop job. In the front view the tires are mirror opposites... in the rear shot they seem like copies straight across.. The shadows and detial seems to CGI. I stil like itbut think this was a photoshopped GV.

It would look better with a little lift, say that 2.125".

I like how the front bumper is clipped at the sides (same for the rear - though Oregon would make us put on some added mud flaps). The clippnig gives it an aggressive look while adding to the potential climb height on steps or ledge climbs.

Not the same class vehicle....GV is $5000 more. Not to mention it is a rear wheel drive vehicle. For that kind of money it will compete with Liberty and Grand Cherokee...not the Patriot.

Check again. You can get a Luxury Package 4WD for $24, 500. A comparable Patriot with the off-road package is running easily $24,000.

The low end Patriot with 2WD is $15,000 compared to $19,000 for the low end 2WD GV. That isn't what we are comparing though. We are talking about the most capable model for the title of the most capable SUV in it class. When equally equipped, the only advantage the Patriot has is the ground clearance. The Grand Vitara has a stronger engine (with decent mileage), a true 4-Lo transfer case, a rigid ladder frame, etc. Another bonus is the interior....not much cheap there.

I think Suzuki would do some serious damage to the Patriot's marketing campaign if they started to make a little noise of their own.

They'll never produce that Dune Grand Vitara concept. I remember reading that sucker had 12" of ground clearance.

It is a cool concept though.

They'll never produce that Dune Grand Vitara concept. I remember reading that sucker had 12" of ground clearance.

It is a cool concept though.

Do you think the SEMA Jeep Patriot will be built? I'd buy one if it were.

To be honest, I don't think they did anything special to the SEMA Patriot other than adding a suspension lift, new fenders, and a roof rack. Otherwise, wasn't it the same vehicle?

Here is a link (http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z10368/default.aspx) to pictures of the real Dune Grand Vitara concept......not drawn....built.

As you will see, they really altered the hell out of this car. I thought it had 12" of ground clearance, but the article reports 26". That is goofy....thus, you can see why it won't ever make it to market....however, the pics are great.

http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Suzuki/Suzuki_Dune_DV_06_DAS_03.jpg

http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo/97419,10368,0,0/photo.aspx

...I thought it had 12" of ground clearance, but the article reports 26". That is goofy....thus, you can see why it won't ever make it to market....however, the pics are great.

I read the same 26" clearance in an article or two... so much for article proofing.

I wonder if there is much of an off-roading market over in the South Pacific rim. It may be something that could be sold there and the kit imported...

I am all for promoting more off-roading (responsible off-roading of course).

I like the looks of it. That roof rck is supposed to slide 1/2 down to each side for easier loading... very cool though it might be hard to push a heavily ladden 1/2 rack back up there. Nice concept.

I think Suzuki would do some serious damage to the Patriot's marketing campaign if they started to make a little noise of their own.

You're assuming that every Patriot will be bought with limited package and FD2. That's is simply not the case...more like less than 5%. Your'e judging the Patriot's value based on a small enthusiast population. I can get a Patriot with lockable 4WD for $16.7K (probably 15K + if I special order). No other manufacturer can provide that.

If I wanted to spend close to $25k for something similar to the Grand Vitara, there are a slew of other SUV's and pickup trucks it would be competing with.

I think Suzuki would do some serious damage to the Patriot's marketing campaign if they started to make a little noise of their own.

You're assuming that every Patriot will be bought with limited package and FD2. That's is simply not the case...more like less than 5%. Your'e judging the Patriot's value based on a small enthusiast population. I can get a Patriot with lockable 4WD for $16.7K (probably 15K + if I special order). No other manufacturer can provide that.

If I wanted to spend close to $25k for something similar to the Grand Vitara, there are a slew of other SUV's and pickup trucks it would be competing with.

Read my first post:

Okay guys...Jeep claims the Patriot is the most capable vehicle in its class. Here is a vehicle with 4-Lo that I think Jeep is forgetting about, the Grand Vitara.

I'm not comparing the two vehicles on any other level than top of the line..."best"...."most capable". Yes, you can buy the Patriot with lockable 4WD for cheap........but that isn't the vehicle Jeep is claiming to be the most capable.

This whole thread simply shows that if you want a small SUV that is capable of performing off-road, the Grand Vitara can be had for nearly the same amount and is arguably better on paper. Further....they have actually shown footage of what the vehicle can accomplish....further, the aftermarket has already shown support for the vehicle.....further, along with the off-road prowess, you are getting a vehicle with (by most critical reviews) a very nice interior.

The Grand Vitara IS competition to the Limited Patriot w/FD2.

I agree at $21K + the Vitara gives you more for the money, when I say "class" I'm referring to compact SUV, not off-road vehicle. Patriot is really competing with vehicles like CR-V and Rav4 and Escape. They shouldn't tout Patriot as best in class, but instead best "value" in class, which is SUV class.

I look at the Patriot in a different light, I plan on getting the FWD 5-speed version for the superior gas mileage and cargo space. 4WD is not so important to me anymore because FWD gets good traction.

...The Grand Vitara IS competition to the Limited Patriot w/FD2.

I agree. Which is why we are going to take both out for test drives. Also taking out an xterra, too.

I think Jeep is correct in marketing the Patriot as the most capable in its class. The patriot has more going for it than just the extra inch of ground clearance. The Jeep also has a much better depature angle, and I would bet it has a better breakover angle (suzuki dont list it). Further, the GV doesn't have skid plates and that in and of itself makes the GV less capable. Im sure there are idiots who would take it into some serious off roading but anything that doesnt have skid plates to keep you from destroying your investment, is not a serious off roader.

The GV does have skid plates. Also, it has a slightly better approach angle, though it gives up a bit on the departure angle.

I intially considered the GV and nowhere on thier webpage nor in any review of it that I have read does it mention skid plates. The 9/10 of a degree the GV has on the Partriot would hardly be noticable where as the differance in departure is 3 degrees is more signifigant. I would also suspect that the GV doesnt have the sealing for water fording that the Jeep has. The GV might be jeep closest competitor in its class but I dont think that its any more capable.

The Grand Vitara has a stronger engine (with decent mileage)

Sure the GV has a few more horsepower but what does that translate too? I checked the numers, the GV and the Compass Limited 4x4 with the CVT have the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. The Patriot should have the same numbers, so all your really getting out the v6 is a little extra towing capacity. And the Jeep still gets better gas mileage.

I intially considered the GV and nowhere on thier webpage nor in any review of it that I have read does it mention skid plates. The 9/10 of a degree the GV has on the Partriot would hardly be noticable where as the differance in departure is 3 degrees is more signifigant. I would also suspect that the GV doesnt have the sealing for water fording that the Jeep has. The GV might be jeep closest competitor in its class but I dont think that its any more capable.

Suspension up front is similar to previous models and is protected well with factory skid plates and bracing.

Here is the link (http://www.suzukiauto.com/sr_06/grand_vitara/reviews/2005-10_redesigned_3d_gen.php).

Sure the GV has a few more horsepower but what does that translate too? I checked the numers, the GV and the Compass Limited 4x4 with the CVT have the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. The Patriot should have the same numbers, so all your really getting out the v6 is a little extra towing capacity. And the Jeep still gets better gas mileage.

A quick google check showed this range:

Compass (http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=Compass+0+-+60&btnG=Google+Search) 0 - 60:

9.4 to 10.2

GV (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=Awd&q=Grand+Vitara+0+-+60&btnG=Search):

9.0 - 9.5

You're also getting more torque...I would assume that helps in going up steep grades...something the GV has proven capable of...we'll see "someday" what the Patriot can do.

look at the picture on the right. The exhaust is dangerously exposed.

Actually, from visiting some Grand Vitara Forums, that is the number one complaint. Some have even gone so far as to re-configure the exhaust because of it....however, I think the 2 1/8" lift which is currently available here (http://www.summitoffroad.com/grandvitara.html), would help with this problem a bit.

You're also getting more torque...I would assume that helps in going up steep grades...something the GV has proven capable of...we'll see "someday" what the Patriot can do.

The CVT should be great for steep grades as it can adjust to the right ratio to achieve the power needed. We should be seeing what the Patriot can do in just a week.

I think the GV is fine alternative, I just think its a bold statement to say its more capable than the Jeep.

Actually, from visiting some Grand Vitara Forums, that is the number one complaint. Some have even gone so far as to re-configure the exhaust because of it....however, I think the 2 1/8" lift which is currently available here (http://www.summitoffroad.com/grandvitara.html), would help with this problem a bit.

It does look good with that lift. but they did say: "The Grand Vitara has pretty much the worst undercarriage clearance of any vehicle in its class... much less anything with 4WD. Even Subaru cars can get you further down a dirt road than a stock Grand Vitara"

Right...until you get the clearance....I think stock is 7.9, so with the lift you are looking at 10".

Other than the clearance, this isn't really anything that can be knocked when comparing this car. The aftermarket was smart to jump on that and offer a lift.

I'd be curious to see what the crawl ratio is with that real Lo-transfer case.

Wow. That video was lame. I'm thoroughly unimpressed. It would have been different if it made it through those obstacles with no effort, but it was spinning all over the place. I've taken my mom's Buick Century through stuff that bad without taking a scratch.

My dad has a Grand Vitara and I can assure you that while it's a nice little commuter vehicle that will get you through the back roads, it is not a true offroader and a 2 inch lift isn't going to help it.

Wow. That video was lame. I'm thoroughly unimpressed. It would have been different if it made it through those obstacles with no effort, but it was spinning all over the place. I've taken my mom's Buick Century through stuff that bad without taking a scratch.

My dad has a Grand Vitara and I can assure you that while it's a nice little commuter vehicle that will get you through the back roads, it is not a true offroader and a 2 inch lift isn't going to help it.

What are you comparing it to...your lifted ZJ? Obviously its not going to impress you if that is the basis of comparison.

I'll compare it to the Compass video where they were whizzing around on a beach, and say it is impressive.

The GV won't take on a ZJ, or a Wrangler, or even a Liberty.....but for those looking at a Patriot, I doubt you'll get much more. I'd love to be wrong though.

No, I actually compared it to a Buick Century and stated so. The stuff in that video can be done by virtually any softroader. Yes, I'm well aware that my ZJ is in another league, but that stuff was simple. Any comprable crossover should be able to do that stuff just as well.

I'll see if I can dig up the pics of me wheeling a Buick and post them up later...

Right...until you get the clearance....I think stock is 7.9, so with the lift you are looking at 10".

Other than the clearance, this isn't really anything that can be knocked when comparing this car. The aftermarket was smart to jump on that and offer a lift.


Yes that lift would make a big differance. But the point you were intially making was that GV is more capable than the Patriot and Jeep's claim of the Patriot being the most capable vehicle in its class is not based on aftermarket improvements. I think that everone would agree that the Patriot is far more off road capable than a Rav4 but Im sure you could do enough aftermarket improvement to a Rav4 to make it out offroad a stock Patriot.

When we are taking about stock, straight off the lot vehicles, the Patriot is more capable than the Grand Vitara. Mabye not a lot. But enough to make Jeep claim of being the most capable vehicle in its class valid.

hmm the 'gv' looks like a toy. I dont see much 'grand' about it. seems pretty lame actually. soft lines. its the kind of car i can picture a woman putting on makeup in and totally ignoring the road while singing. nicely optioned and not a bad price. Looks like a rav tho I'd rather have the rav with the v6. naw scratch that Id rather the patriot.

Id take a Grand Vitara over a Rav.4 The rav4 has nice engine but it is completly incapable of any off roading.

aiight then give me the FJ Cruiser. :)...the GV doesnt look the part of an off road machine...youd get laughed off the trail.

Yea, I looked at the FJ cruiser and I like it, Im just not sure about the suicide doors with windows that dont roll down. I dont think my friends would like riding back there. And then theres the 29,000 price tag to get it fitted like I would want.

Id take a Grand Vitara over a Rav.4 The rav4 has nice engine but it is completly incapable of any off roading.


that depends on the degree on the off-roading and who's behind the wheel.

Yea, I looked at the FJ cruiser and I like it, Im just not sure about the suicide doors with windows that dont roll down. I dont think my friends would like riding back there. And then theres the 29,000 price tag to get it fitted like I would want.

The FJ's rear seat entry is too tight for getting kids into their car seats for us so we are not looking further into it as a viable family alternative. It should be good on the trail though.