I have been reading that the metal exterior on the Pat is "thin". I am wondering if the metal being used on the new Dodge Journey will be any heavier than the Pat's? I suspect not but how does one go about finding out the the gauge or thickness of the metal used on these vehicles? Also is the metal used on a Jeep Liberty heavier than on a Pat?

is all the same

It's not so much the gauge (or thickness) of the metal, but the shape. A large flat shape will seem "thinner" than one with bends and seams. Ever notice the "x" impressions in heating ducts, etc.? That is to stiffen a relative thin metal to prevent "oil-canning".

Jack,
If I ever own a plane, it will have a radial engine. Very cool! (I guess I'd need to learn to fly first)

They went from 18 to 20 gauge back in 1982 so it must be a whole lot thinner by now. Although even the 20 gauge seemed flimsy on a Jeep CJ.

I'll bet that is why they spent the extra money on the die to stamp the wheel flares into the fenders on the Patriot rather than the traditional plastic extensions. The flare will reinforce the whole fender. There is other evidence too, the hood rolls over the edge giving it reinforcement around the perimeter.

dude, random thought - radial engine in a car! like this one - http://www.angellabsllc.com/mytengine.html

Dude.. not so random thought...Wankel in a plane... i helped a guy put a 13B on the front of a Rans S-7 Courier.

But agree about having a radial if i ever own a plane. My goal is to one day restore and operate a C-195 with the 300 horse Jacobs.

I have been reading that the metal exterior on the Pat is "thin". I am wondering if the metal being used on the new Dodge Journey will be any heavier than the Pat's? I suspect not but how does one go about finding out the the gauge or thickness of the metal used on these vehicles? Also is the metal used on a Jeep Liberty heavier than on a Pat?

large flat panels flex more,
Liberty has rounded edges which makes it stiffer,
with large flat panels center flexes much more

dude, random thought - radial engine in a car! like this one - http://www.angellabsllc.com/mytengine.htmlOK you posted it. What are the specs? Torque HP and such?

Well, it wasn't that many years ago--Sherman Tanks of the WW2 vintage did use a Continental W670 radial engine (670 cu. in.; 220 hp @ 2050 rpm). And of course, these were air cooled, just not at 80+ mph.

Just remember, this engine is over 4' in diameter, about 20 inches thick depending on electrical accessories, and weighs in at over 400 lbs. I'd recommend the Pratt and Whitney R985 (985 cu in, 450 hp @ 1900 rpm), but this adds another 8' in diameter and another 100 lbs. Of course, these measurments and weights are a guestimate.

Aviation (home-builders) enthusists have been using car engines for at least 60 years--the 1930's "Pietenpol" used a Ford Model A engine, a 70's version used a Mercedes 2.2 l diesel engine. And many of the aluminum block V6 and V8s are used with a belt/gear reduction system.

As others have stated, the metal is perceived as thin due to the shape of the larger panels. It is a trade-off between design and aesthetics.

It is a trade-off between design and aesthetics.

and fuel milage. You want better milage? You need a lighter vehicle.

How do you lighten a vehicle? Use plastic and thinner metal.


Ever look at the fasteners that are holding the body together? Check out all the plastic push pins that have replaced screws on the newly designed vehicles.

Well, it wasn't that many years ago--Sherman Tanks of the WW2 vintage did use a Continental W670 radial engine (670 cu. in.; 220 hp @ 2050 rpm). And of course, these were air cooled, just not at 80+ mph.

Just remember, this engine is over 4' in diameter, about 20 inches thick depending on electrical accessories, and weighs in at over 400 lbs. I'd recommend the Pratt and Whitney R985 (985 cu in, 450 hp @ 1900 rpm), but this adds another 8' in diameter and another 100 lbs. Of course, these measurments and weights are a guestimate.

Aviation (home-builders) enthusists have been using car engines for at least 60 years--the 1930's "Pietenpol" used a Ford Model A engine, a 70's version used a Mercedes 2.2 l diesel engine. And many of the aluminum block V6 and V8s are used with a belt/gear reduction system.

So you don't think I could cobble up a good radial out of 6 or 8 old LawnBoy 2cycle mower engines?

Ever heard of the OP? The diesel developed by Fairbanks Morse in Beloit WI? No cylinder head. Interesting concept.