hey guys.. I absolutely cannot wait for this baby to hit the lots ive been searching tirelessly for a 5 speed cherokee with low miles but thats really tough, but now my prayers are answered with the patriot... i am a little nervous though that I am not going to be happy with the 4 banger. I know its supposed to be really light and put out 170+ horses, but is it enough? Im sure its going to have more power than my 96 6 cyl cherokee does right now (shes gettin old) but i just hope it is enough to satisfy me.. i have had 2 cherokees and a grand, all 6 cyl and i hope it is not a noticable downgrade... Why not put the 3.8 in one of these babies?!?! If they made this baby with a 6 banger and a typical jeep 4wd like a commandtrac i think they would sell like sausages outside a bar on a saturday night

I'd say take out a compass 4x4 for a spin. Its the same 2.4L 4 cyl. same tranny options too if i'm not mistaken. I took one out and its not bad - very smooth with the CVT tranny. I want a diesel myself. the 3.0L CRD would do i think.

I have gotten used to 4 bangers.My old Voyager with a 2.5 was alittle anemic going up hills with I think 95 horsepower.My Frontier was better with its 2.5 4 cylinder.With 170 or so horses I dont think it will be too bad.With the oil situation the way it is I think whether we like it or not smaller engines are here to stay.I too would love to see a diesel.When I was stationed overseas they were very common.

Here's a previous thread on the 2.4L I4 being underpowered.

http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371

While I agree that there should be a more powerful engine option (diesel) I think the 2.4L it is a good engine for this application. It has a good balance between performance and fuel economy. And its only a matter of time before the aftermarket performance stuff starts coming out. Remember this engine is in the Caliber/Compass/Patriot. I wouldn't be surprised if it showed up under a couple Mitsubishi (Lancer/Outlander) hoods too. If you can get a Civic to put out 300+hp I'm sure you can squeeze an extra 20-30hp out of the 2.4L.

Here's a previous thread on the 2.4L I4 being underpowered.

http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371

While I agree that there should be a more powerful engine option (diesel) I think the 2.4L it is a good engine for this application. It has a good balance between performance and fuel economy. And its only a matter of time before the aftermarket performance stuff starts coming out. Remember this engine is in the Caliber/Compass/Patriot. I wouldn't be surprised if it showed up under a couple Mitsubishi (Lancer/Outlander) hoods too. If you can get a Civic to put out 300+hp I'm sure you can squeeze an extra 20-30hp out of the 2.4L.

Dont forget it is the "World Engine" joint venture between Hyundai/Mitsubishi/DCX so it may show up in a lot of places. According to the intrsuctors at the training center they allready have some other buyers lined up for other applications, including a John Deere tractor IIRC. The 2.4 is also the engine going into the Turbocharged SRT4 Caliber with at least 300HP so there should definitely be some aftermarket support in the future.

Not sure what size the original engine was in the PT Cruiser, but I know when I rented one it was kind of a dog when it came to getting up to speed on the freeway. But, after a year they put a turbo on it and it was quick. I imagine that after Jeep see's how the Patriot sells, they will expand its powerplant options. However, I am okay with it being a little less quick if it gets good gas mileage.

Well, as everyone notes, 4 cylinder is a tradeoff---fuel economy vs power---like others suggest, test drive a Compass with the 2.4L engine and see how you like it...

if you don't like it you might want to go for the 6 cylinder Liberty....in 08, there has been some talk of the return of a diesel for the 08 Liberty...

... I test drove a Compass and I have owned a Liberty and many G.C's...there is a difference but you will have to decide if you can live with it in exchange for better fuel economy...

Also, don't forget that within the range of models of the Patriot...fuel economy differs...

Manual tranny= 25 city/29 hwy
CVT= 23 city/26 hwy
CVT with off road option (low gear)= 21 city/ 23 hwy

I feel your anguish concerning your Cherokee 5spd; mine is well into 200K miles and the manual tranny Liberty I test drove was a "dog" in comparison to the 5spd Cherokee. I am, however, optimistic about the Patriot's four banger performance as it is much lighter than the porked-out Liberty. If the Patriot 5spd provides comparable performance gains that the Cherokee 5spd provided over the auto, then it should be adequate. From the few reviews I have seen regarding the Compass 5spd, it appears the manual really out-performs the auto. It's too bad DC didn't provide a 6spd manual with a granny low as that option would have been near ideal on-road with some flexibility for off-roading. But, you can always wait for a year and get the higher performance turbo diesel and 6spd manual that is currently designated as the export version. VW has already shown the 2 liter turbo diesel Tiguan SUV and announced its intent to reintroduce diesel to the NA market this year. Given VW and DC are part of the Bluetec diesel initiative, it's possible this is the same diesel engine intended for the Patriot/Compass.

I have a 2.4 Outlander and its weight is a bit more than the AWD Patriot. It is also automatic. The new Patriot motor is a step up on the Outlander but just a step. 10HP. That said don't expect the Patriot to roar off the line but when the VVT comes on there is an amazing difference. The Patriot also has 2 stage VVT which is going to help low end somewhat. The Outlander is only single stage and kicks in about 3500 +. It is interesting to note that the 2007 Outlander which in many ways is a twin of the Patriot (same platform etc.) is not offered with the 2.4. Mits opted for the V6 knowing there would be nail biting over power in the US market. My next vehicle will be the Patriot Sport with the 5 speed. There will be no lack of power and I am sure I can nudge 30MPG out of one.

I feel your anguish concerning your Cherokee 5spd; mine is well into 200K miles and the manual tranny Liberty I test drove was a "dog" in comparison to the 5spd Cherokee. I am, however, optimistic about the Patriot's four banger performance as it is much lighter than the porked-out Liberty. If the Patriot 5spd provides comparable performance gains that the Cherokee 5spd provided over the auto, then it should be adequate. From the few reviews I have seen regarding the Compass 5spd, it appears the manual really out-performs the auto. It's too bad DC didn't provide a 6spd manual with a granny low as that option would have been near ideal on-road with some flexibility for off-roading. But, you can always wait for a year and get the higher performance turbo diesel and 6spd manual that is currently designated as the export version. VW has already shown the 2 liter turbo diesel Tiguan SUV and announced its intent to reintroduce diesel to the NA market this year. Given VW and DC are part of the Bluetec diesel initiative, it's possible this is the same diesel engine intended for the Patriot/Compass.

Anyone here familiar with the whole diesel thing as far as California goes? I think I heard that there's some sort of issue with diesels in this state, but don't really know what it is.

I had a diesel Opel Vectra Wagon in Germany (I know...Euro diesel is different - cleaner? - than American diesel) and I loved it. The MPG (ok...KPL...ha ha) was awesome!

If Jeep were to make diesel available in the Pat before I buy one, i would seriously consider getting that option...

When I was stationed overseas or travelled outside the US I noticed a while ago how common diesels are.I think its only a matter of time before its like that here.

When I was stationed overseas or travelled outside the US I noticed a while ago how common diesels are.I think its only a matter of time before its like that here.

I hope it doesn't take too long. When we switched from our Ford Sierra wagon (reg unleaded) to the Opel (diesel) I was amazed at how much a difference it made.

In the desert we had gas Durangos,Escapes Tahoes etc.The Brits,the Italians the Australians the Romanians all had diesels.I think its just the way we are.Hardly anybody wanted diesels in the states so thats what we got.I think those days are over.

I'm tellin you people diesel is the way to go!!! :D

Amen !!!!!!!

Anyone here familiar with the whole diesel thing as far as California goes? I think I heard that there's some sort of issue with diesels in this state, but don't really know what it is.



California emissions standards for light duty diesels are very strict, 4 other states use the California standards and even the Liberty diesel was never offered in those states. For 07 the feds and Cali raised them which is why nobody is offering a diesel for the US at the moment. Several are on the way that will pass, but meeting the California standards may take longer and not all manufacturers will even try. For the Feds its 8,500lbs and under GVWR, this is why you can get a diesel in a 3/4 ton pickup(8,800lb GVWR)but not a 1/2 ton. Dodge is working on some V6 and V8 diesels with Cummins that will pass those standards so they can put them in Durangos, Aspens and 1/2 ton Rams but they are not expected until 09 or 2010. The 3.0 Bluetec is supposed to end up in the Grand Cherokee and Commander, maybe even in the LX. The Jeep may get that engine later this year, and DCX is supposed to be looking at several options for a 4cyl diesel, with VW being the most talked about. The problem is that the standards may go up again by the time some of these engines are ready, and then they will have to go back to the drawing board again.

California emissions standards for light duty diesels are very strict, 4 other states use the California standards and even the Liberty diesel was never offered in those states. For 07 the feds and Cali raised them which is why nobody is offering a diesel for the US at the moment. Several are on the way that will pass, but meeting the California standards may take longer and not all manufacturers will even try. For the Feds its 8,500lbs and under GVWR, this is why you can get a diesel in a 3/4 ton pickup(8,800lb GVWR)but not a 1/2 ton.

It should be the other way around. Even with gas trucks, the larger the truck gets the lower emission standards go. I just don't see how thick black smoke spewing out of a dump truck is somehow ok and a smoke-less light duty diesel isn't.

However, the new standards are a step in the right direction. Cleaner is better. I would just like to see diesels available in all Jeeps within the next few years.

California emissions standards for light duty diesels are very strict, 4 other states use the California standards and even the Liberty diesel was never offered in those states. For 07 the feds and Cali raised them which is why nobody is offering a diesel for the US at the moment. Several are on the way that will pass, but meeting the California standards may take longer and not all manufacturers will even try. For the Feds its 8,500lbs and under GVWR, this is why you can get a diesel in a 3/4 ton pickup(8,800lb GVWR)but not a 1/2 ton. Dodge is working on some V6 and V8 diesels with Cummins that will pass those standards so they can put them in Durangos, Aspens and 1/2 ton Rams but they are not expected until 09 or 2010. The 3.0 Bluetec is supposed to end up in the Grand Cherokee and Commander, maybe even in the LX. The Jeep may get that engine later this year, and DCX is supposed to be looking at several options for a 4cyl diesel, with VW being the most talked about. The problem is that the standards may go up again by the time some of these engines are ready, and then they will have to go back to the drawing board again.

Hmmm...well, maybe by the time it happens, we'll be able to afford to trade up to a Grand Cherokee and go diesel then. (We'll probably be out of Cali in a few years anyways...)

Until then, in my opinion the MPG in the Patriot is nothing to sneeze at. Especially considering that I'm averaging only 19 in my granny car, and I shudder to think of what Hubby is getting in his car.

...I just don't see how thick black smoke spewing out of a dump truck is somehow ok and a smoke-less light duty diesel isn't...

Because one can be bullied by the PC gang and the other can't... or at least it is a lot hard to push them around.

Most likely lobbying keeps them from the larger trucks, but in reality the large trucks need the diesel far more then commuter cars. Our economy would grind to a halt without them. The big trucks have been cleaned up over the years but they still have lower standards then the light duty. SUVs have used that loophole for years to get around CAFE, for example, if you buy a 300C SRT8 you will have to pay a $2,100 gas guzzler tax. Same engine, slightly worse fuel economy in a Grand Cherokee yet no gas guzzler tax. That makes far less sense to me then different standards for true commercial diesels.

It's California's emissions laws and diesels apparently don't make the grade, by the way I think there are 5 other states (mine included) Maine which have the same standards...it sucks.