I did some driving around today in the remnants of the snow/ice storms that passed through here Sat and Sun. The FWD Patriot does just fine on the ice.
My neighborhood has been plowed (not salted) to reveal the ice below. I thought that I would put the Patriot through the tests.

Accelerating from a dead stop: no problem in most instances, some wheel spin right at the begining (for those inclined or turing starts), ESP light would come on but only when one wheel was slipping and the other was not.

Stopping: Tried both "emergency" stop and normal stop. The ABS kicked in immediately in the "emergency" stop and it seemed to stop in about the same distance it would if it were good conditions. In the normal stop everything happened as it should and the ABS even kicked in when the wheels tried to lock (I was surpised by this because in our other ABS car, a 2000 300M, the ABS only kicks in if you slam the brakes: I am impressed with the advancement of technology). No skating during either types of stops (the Goodyear SR-A are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be).

I just wanted to let others know that our "half" Jeeps are just as deserving of their Jeep name. I am confident that when called upon the Patriot can get me through nasty road conditions (as long as I am not overly confident like those 4X4 SUV idiots in ditches).

I contemplated getting a FDI 4X4 Patriot, but realistically in our area we rarely get frozen precip, and when we do it's probably best to stay out of it if possible. My previous car (2000 Impala) had FWD, traction control, and ABS, and I got around in our bad weather here fine. I figure the 2WD Patriot should do as well (if not better)...and if I'd gotten the 4X4 I'd probably be tempted to take more chances than I should in bad conditions.

One thing I have noticed driving around here in very wet conditions; my previous car would often have the traction control kick in when pulling out from a stop sign, especially when turning to the left. While the Patriot may still spin the tires slightly in the same situation, the TC doesn't seem to kick in as quickly, and when it does it isn't as intrusive as my older car. At times when the TC would kick in and power would be cut in my old car, I'd feel somewhat stranded in an intersection as I'd be trying to get out of the way, but the power wasn't there. Thus far I feel like the Patriot providing a higher threshold for the TC is better tuned to everyday driving around here, which is a good thing.

I just wanted to let others know that our "half" Jeeps are just as deserving of their Jeep name. I am confident that when called upon the Patriot can get me through nasty road conditions (as long as I am not overly confident like those 4X4 SUV idiots in ditches).

Ahem Brother!

I agree, sometimes overkill is just that. I would much rather be on the road with a responsible 4x2 driver than a maniac in a FDII (not that I am one either).

a maniac in a FDII (not that I am one either).

That's OK Dr Jekel, we know that there is Hyde in you.

A maniac in an FDII??

My, what an interesting concept.

It's almost unimaginable. First of all you would have to find a maniac who would want to be driving a Patriot. Then it would not only have to be a Patriot but the low geared low mileage off-road FDII version.

I can think of a lot of reasons various sensible people wight either want or need one, .... but maniacs ??? Come, now.

I see a lot of them in Mustangs, Cobras, Corvettes, and various and sundry others, but in a Patriot??? Come, now.

Next you be telling me there is no Santa Claus.

good to know our 4x2 pats are good on ice not that we ever get that in so cal he he he...

good to know our 4x2 pats are good on ice not that we ever get that in so cal he he he...

You did a couple years ago for like 1 day (freak hail storm), right? I seem to remember it making the national news.

Next you be telling me there is no Santa Claus.

WHAT theres no Santa, I'm heartbroken haha

You did a couple years ago for like 1 day (freak hail storm), right? I seem to remember it making the national news.

yep; we got hail by the beach that day.. nothing major tho, they were smaller than peas.
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/3748/hail4sr.th.jpg (http://img370.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hail4sr.jpg)

yeah but where i live it never froze over...

You know, the title of this thread got me to thinking...I've seen so many "Disney's -insert name of movie here- On Ice" shows with my kids over the years that I can't take many more (though I found out my wife has already bought us tickets to "High School Musical On Ice" :mad:). But I'd probably line up to see "Jeeps On Ice", with lots of choreographed slipping and sliding!

Thats for the info, I was not sure if I should get 4x4 or the 2x4 because we do get ice here, never just snow, its always a mix of snow and ice.

I am glad I am not going to be missing a lot with the 2x4

It snowed and iced a TON here last week, I never had once ounce of trouble going anywhere in the pat. I went out on unplowed roads early in the morning, minimal tire slippage and never felt like it was having trouble. The 4x2 is great!

I'm an "on order" Patriot owner. My early-ship operator's manual discourages the use of tire chains on FWD. Does anyone have experience with that? Here in Northern CA, we do get some very icy roads--4x4 starts, but doesn't stop and chains are the only way to drive safely on ice. Any thoughts? Thanks!

Speaking as a 2 Pat owner, I took our 4X2 out of town last weekend following a pretty major end-of-the-season winter storm (this is Winnipeg and it can still snow here even in June) just to test it out.

I am pleased to report that there were no issues, not even on higher-speed roads. I am very impressed - maybe even more so than the guy I passed in a Subaru Forester who was gripping his wheel so tight you could see his white knuckles through the window.

I'm an "on order" Patriot owner. My early-ship operator's manual discourages the use of tire chains on FWD. Does anyone have experience with that? Here in Northern CA, we do get some very icy roads--4x4 starts, but doesn't stop and chains are the only way to drive safely on ice. Any thoughts? Thanks!

I bought Super Z6 snow cables from SCC two seasons ago for going snowboarding at Big Bear mountain and Mountain High; at times it's mandatory to have them on and the Police do check and can cite you. I used them for the first time this season and they were great and easy on/off. I think they cost about $80. They are made for limited clearance vehicles like the Pat. You can check the size and type you need for your tire size on their website, along with other info and fitting video at:
http://scc-chain.com/Traction%20Page..._app_guide.asp

On ice I think most FWD vehicles are similar -- the weight is where it works best.

In snow the FWD Patriot is excellent. We get plenty of snow in NH and if driving only on typically maintained roads (2"-4" between plowing) the Patriot is all I need, even on hills. Excellent on the highways, and good enough on hilly secondary roads. Deeper snow on steeper hills can present a problem because the weight load shifts back and the FWD loses some of its engine-over-wheels advantage.

Surprisingly the FWD Patriot does well even in off-road conditions. I posted an adventure on the 2WD forum of driving in spring conditions on a muddy, icy trail that I wouldn't have knowingly taken (I thought it was going to be a road). Patriot got me through. :)

Unless you intend to do off-roading or you never clear your driveway, FWD Patriot is all you need. I'm with JoeBecker on the confidence issue. With FWD I don't take unneccessary risks, but I don't worry about getting home on a snowy day, either.

My roommate has a 2010 Compass, 2wd. She slides around quite a bit more than me. If you dont drive both then you likely wouldnt notice the difference. The 2wd Pat/Compass is very capable in light to moderate snow, even in the hills we have around west-central Missouri. She had some anxious moments during some of the heavier snow events we had this past winter (8-10 plus drifts) but never got stuck or really needed to worry. She loves her Compass. She has to finess her starts from a stop sometimes, where my Pat just shrugs them off, and she has to approach drifts and hills (of which our driveway has both) a little differently than me, but she had no real problems. I have never even had to rock my 4x4, though...

As long as you have decent tires the 4x2 can handle anything...

The only times I had issues were this past winter with bald tires, I was broke and a college student, but I never once got stuck, there were a few times where I had to turn off traction control and let the tires spin a little, but never stuck.

Agreed. Patriot 4X2 is better in snow than any other 2WD or FWD I've owned.

To boot, I had quite an off-road adventure with my 4X2 back in April and with anything less I would have been in a jam. Lil Ignatz had to work some, but he got me out of a place I shouldn't have gone w/out 4WD. No damage done other than a little mud on the fenders (Jeep bling).

Can't help on chains...unless someone can correct me, they are not allowed on Michigan roads here...I know they use them in order to climb the hills around Duluth, MN...
4x4 don't mean jack if you don't have the tires for the snow.
4x4 helps you go, but it don't help you stop...

4x4 helps you go, but it don't help you stop...

Ahhh... as so many forget that as evidenced by the quantity of 4x4's in the ditches along the interstate after the first snowstorm! :)

Ahhh... as so many forget that as evidenced by the quantity of 4x4's in the ditches along the interstate after the first snowstorm! :)

If less than a handful of a large "quantity" to you, what is a HUGE quantity?

I agree though there are some people with 4x4 or AWD who think they are invincible, and drive faster than they should on bad roads. Maybe they get soo excited after passing hundreds of abandoned 2WD cars during snow storms (liek the back to back ones we had on the East coasts past couple years), and adrenaline kicks in and WHOAAA some person in their Prius though it was a good idea to gun their motors! Like spinning tires faster would somehow help and they go out of control, causing 4x4/AWD owner to make evasive manuevers, but nature and physics are the ultimate champions and there the two vehicles go following the 2WD into the ditch making most 2WD owner think that 4x4/AWD is useless because of a couple terrible drivers with 3-season/bald tires.

Also keep in mind half the SUV owners don't have 4-wheel drive, and half of them don't think to engage it when they should. No, I did not end up in a ditch, I learned to drive in the winter in the Army in South Korea in the mountains...those knobby military tires grip NOTHING on ice, so I learned without incident to not slam on my breaks on slick roads... anyhow if I had the 2WD Avenger those frigid days I probably would have had to pull over and get a ride as thousands of others did during this past winter.

I'm an "on order" Patriot owner. My early-ship operator's manual discourages the use of tire chains on FWD. Does anyone have experience with that? Here in Northern CA, we do get some very icy roads--4x4 starts, but doesn't stop and chains are the only way to drive safely on ice. Any thoughts? Thanks!

There's lots of room in a Pat's wheel-wells for good chains. Modern cable-type chains, like the Thule, should work just fine. I think most mountainous states and provinces require chains at some point.

Also keep in mind half the SUV owners don't have 4-wheel drive, and half of them don't think to engage it when they should.

Under snowy highway conditions 4WD isn't going to make much difference -- cornering and braking are about the same, and conceivably better w/out 4WD because with 4WD an inexperienced driver can make 4 tires break loose, not just two! And RWD is arguably better descending hills or stopping, because they'll drag you in a straight line. Now we have ABS which IMHO is even better.

Back before the 4WD craze, we all had RWD and a good set of snow tires got us where we needed to go, even in the snow.

I read this thread and I'm having a good chuckle. I'm stuck at home because my half Jeep will hardly move in the 12" of fluffy snow we have. I managed to get out of the drive way and couldnt move forwards on the level. the tires hopped, the traction control killed the power and the little light flashed to let me know it was spinning. had to back up three times before I could get moving enough to get back in the drivway. Oh, and I do have brand new winter tires and I gew up in the north where we drove winter roads 4 months of the year, so I'm no rookie at snowy conditons. My 2wd patriot is only a little better than my civic was in the snow, so they both suck.

my previous beast was a 92 bmw 325is (e36). RWD and drove it in the winter with all seasons.. Yes it did like to spin every once in a while (good adrenaline rush !) and got stuck when lots of snow was on the ground but for the most part it never let me down. As soon as I hit the plowed roads it was ok. The new beast is the 11 patriot. so far grips a lot better better the road under heavy rain conditions. I would think it will be much better than the bmw but so far no snow here in the GTA.

I do not think the ability to drive in the winter should come down to the car you drive.. Intead focus should on the driver. back in the day there was no abs, stability control etc... hell they even make cars that parallel park themselves.. Its an scary future !! all electronics will fail at some point and then the new generation of drivers will be put to the test.