So I am fed up with this navigation system. Here are my observed problems, which don't even include my complaints about how the unit is not user friendly:

1. On more than one occasion it thinks I am on the wrong road. I know this can happen, but this is too often. Once it had me on the right road going in the wrong direction.

2. The directions suck. I ask it to go the "fastest" way and notice that the way it suggests clearly is not the fastest. When I go MY way and the machine recalculates, the time till arrival distance goes down, indicating my way is predicted to be faster. Shouldn't it have known that?

3. When I search for a point of interest by name, it finds the closest match to what I typed, but won't list the results in terms of distance. Therefore if you enter a store name but you spell it wrong or forget an apostrophe, it will direct you to the closest match, which might be in Quebec, hundreds of miles away, instead of to the clearly logical choice.

4. The map is completely lacking. There is a mall with like 100 stores off a major highway here, and has been there for 3 years, and is not on the map. Most small stores are not either. And you can't add stuff to the categories...you can only add it as a point of interest (in other words if you add a restaurant, it won't come up when you search for food). In addition, the construction around the DC I95 area, which has been ongoing for YEARS, is not reflected on the map.

5. The limitations on controls while driving is rediculous. If I want to find food while driving, I don't want to be limited to the nearest choice or 2, which might be some gas station. . Also my passenger should be able to use the NAV unhindered.

6. I also don't like how I can't find out how long a trip will take until I start driving. If I want to sit in my driveway and find out how long it will take to go somewhere, I can't. It says "follow the selected route" but won't give you time and distance until you drive a certain amount.

7. The time till arrival fluctuates dramatically. I went on a road trip recently and got on the highway. I told it where I was going, and it estimated my trip time to be 5 hours. After driving for 4 minutes that time had changed to 5 hours 20 minutes. This could not have been because of my driving...I was going over the speed limit, so if anything the # should have gone down.

I am seriously considering trying to have the dealership "take back" the NAV unit. The portable ones I have worked with have been MUCH better!

Some of those issues are possible with portable ones too.

Bad directions, lacking maps, and similar things depends largely on the device maker. Not all maps are updated frequently, and even then they are often much better in some areas than others. A map that is excellent in downtown Chicago might blow chunks in suburban Denver. If the map is outdated (not unusual, I don't know how much of a priority they place on putting recent maps and POI databases in new vehicles), then stuff just won't be there. It can be a real crapshoot. I've seen POIs in my TomTom misplaced by a decent distance, or (worse) sometimes not even there at all. Nothing will be perfect, but sometimes you have to wonder how they haven't kept things up better than they have.

Directions are a function of the routing algorithms, and that's just a hard thing to get right. Sometimes the routes we are used to aren't "best," and sometimes the routes chosen for us ignore far better roads to take.

As for the user interface issues (time to arrival, point of interest arrangements, etc.), that will vary from unit to unit.

But I can understand your frustration; for what vehicle manufacturers charge for the things, they should be far better than they are. Even a very low price on the Jeep unit ($1000) will buy a fantastic standalone unit. It would be interesting to see the profit margin some of these makers have on the things.

In response to point #2, I don't have the built in nav. system (I bought a Garmin nüvi 360 instead), but I think I know what it may be doing.

Usually when you get it to calculate a route, you can select from fastest, shortest distance, and non-highway routes. Maybe it's using the shortest distance by default, even though the route you travel gets you there quicker (ie. the roads you use have less traffic, the speed limits are higher, etc.).

Or maybe the unit is just especially bad, I have no idea. ;)

So I am fed up with this navigation system. Here are my observed problems, which don't even include my complaints about how the unit is not user friendly:

1. On more than one occasion it thinks I am on the wrong road. I know this can happen, but this is too often. Once it had me on the right road going in the wrong direction.

2. The directions suck. I ask it to go the "fastest" way and notice that the way it suggests clearly is not the fastest. When I go MY way and the machine recalculates, the time till arrival distance goes down, indicating my way is predicted to be faster. Shouldn't it have known that?

3. When I search for a point of interest by name, it finds the closest match to what I typed, but won't list the results in terms of distance. Therefore if you enter a store name but you spell it wrong or forget an apostrophe, it will direct you to the closest match, which might be in Quebec, hundreds of miles away, instead of to the clearly logical choice.

4. The map is completely lacking. There is a mall with like 100 stores off a major highway here, and has been there for 3 years, and is not on the map. Most small stores are not either. And you can't add stuff to the categories...you can only add it as a point of interest (in other words if you add a restaurant, it won't come up when you search for food). In addition, the construction around the DC I95 area, which has been ongoing for YEARS, is not reflected on the map.

5. The limitations on controls while driving is rediculous. If I want to find food while driving, I don't want to be limited to the nearest choice or 2, which might be some gas station. . Also my passenger should be able to use the NAV unhindered.

6. I also don't like how I can't find out how long a trip will take until I start driving. If I want to sit in my driveway and find out how long it will take to go somewhere, I can't. It says "follow the selected route" but won't give you time and distance until you drive a certain amount.

7. The time till arrival fluctuates dramatically. I went on a road trip recently and got on the highway. I told it where I was going, and it estimated my trip time to be 5 hours. After driving for 4 minutes that time had changed to 5 hours 20 minutes. This could not have been because of my driving...I was going over the speed limit, so if anything the # should have gone down.

I am seriously considering trying to have the dealership "take back" the NAV unit. The portable ones I have worked with have been MUCH better!

Hey Gstrub,

I have the NAV unit in my Patriot. At first I disliked it and felt it was too lacking for actual use, but now I've gotten used to what it can and cannot do and it's been a real help to me on several occasions.

Regarding your itemized issues above, here's some comments:

1 - I've never seen this happen yet. On my system it's incredibly quick here in changing street names. Perhaps it has to do with blockage/connectivity? I live in San Diego and don't travel downtown very often, and there's not that many trees in S. Cali. I don't think it warns that it has lost GPS signal even though that definitely happens, depending on local obstructions: perhaps it keeps the last road until it can update?

2 - I've never done a good check of this. But on one occasion it suggested the shortest distance and that happened to be via toll road, which I didn't want :( I didn't see any setting to tell it to avoid toll roads.

3 - I agree that it doesn't handle misspellings/other spellings very well. I still to this day can't get it to recognize a spot here on (I believe) a "Sixth" street. I've tried that, 6th, etc. It just doesn't have it, and the building is a medical center that's been there for 20+ years. It is idiotic to assume you want to go 1000 miles away because the spelling matches :o

4 - The map is very basic. Ok for major highways but just not very detailed. Sounds like it's pretty old data - I read on this forum that the co. wants something like $200 for an updated DVD too -- that's nuts!

5 - I've heard that all car makers' systems prevent entry while the vehicle is moving. You can see that it might prevent an accident or two. One of those "our legal dept advised us to do that" things, I'm sure.

To me the biggest limitation is lack of touch entry, but considering it was only $1000 and that some car manufacturers were charging as much as $3000 to $4000, I guess it's good value.

I do however love the big LCD screen for my radio and CD info :D :pepper:

Yes it looks very nice...one of few redeeming qualities. I have tried both routing algorithm options (fastest/shortest)..and that brings me to ANOTHER huge issue I forgot to mention.

Say you are driving down a highway and have the thing set on "shortest distance." Mine would take me off an exit ramp and back onto the highway if the calculated distance of said exit ramp was shorter than the actual distance on the highway (this scenario would arise if an exit ramp to your right "cuts a corner" on the highway). As if anyone would ever get off the highway and get back on...it happened to me multiple times, such that I had to exit the navigation. And then it won't let you switch the default back to "fastest" while you are driving, so you actually have to get off ANYWAY to pull over and reset the darn thing. Man I could slap those guys over there who put this software together!

Akula, I used to have a Garmin Street Pilot...not the fanciest one either, and that thing taught me shortcuts and faster driving routes in my own neighborhood that I never would have even thought of. It was awesome. This algorithm is different, and in my opinion much less reliable than Garmin's (in my experience so far...3000 miles, 4 major road trips in areas I was familiar with). The fact that if you change directions and go a way you know is faster, the computer acknowledges that it is a faster route vis a vis changing its own estimated trip time to a shorter one. Clearly if the computer is designed to pick the fastest time, it should have anticipated that this route was quicker. It would be one thing if the computer said my way was longer (even if it wasn't) but it's like the computer saying "wow...you're right that IS faster! But I won't remember that next time!" I have a wife in the car for that...I don't need a GPS system doing it too!

Finally the DVD is the most recent...I called the company. Next edition? 2009-10. BS.

Yes it looks very nice...one of few redeeming qualities. I have tried both routing algorithm options (fastest/shortest)..and that brings me to ANOTHER huge issue I forgot to mention.

Say you are driving down a highway and have the thing set on "shortest distance." Mine would take me off an exit ramp and back onto the highway if the calculated distance of said exit ramp was shorter than the actual distance on the highway (this scenario would arise if an exit ramp to your right "cuts a corner" on the highway). As if anyone would ever get off the highway and get back on...it happened to me multiple times, such that I had to exit the navigation. And then it won't let you switch the default back to "fastest" while you are driving, so you actually have to get off ANYWAY to pull over and reset the darn thing. Man I could slap those guys over there who put this software together!

My garmin would do that exit ramp thing to me too. If you don't know an area you can blindly follow the directions only to realize the stupid thing just made you get off the highway and then right back on, after waiting at a red light of course. My Nav in the jeep hasn't done this to me yet though.
Ps. if you are into "hacking" you can trick the nav into letting you change stuff on the fly. Nearly Normal Jimmy's website has a link that shows how to do it.

Akula, I used to have a Garmin Street Pilot...not the fanciest one either, and that thing taught me shortcuts and faster driving routes in my own neighborhood that I never would have even thought of. It was awesome.

From what I have read, Garmin has the best routing algorithms. Magellan is a reasonably close second, with TomTom (the one I have, natch) a distant third. Of course, Garmin is also the most expensive too...

gstrub: In many ways I feel your pain. The aftermarket units deliver more stuff it appears. You could say you are giving up some newness for the built-in aspect. The unit is designed to not allow the driver to program the unit while in motion. Think abaout the guy in front of you. He is dead stopped in the fast lane. He looks in his rearview mirror ans sees you clsing up the distance real quick. Then he notices you are fiddling with NAV system and your eyes are NOT on the road. Nuff said.

The unit is definitely NOT intuitive. Grrr. Like you I would get a point of interest in Michigan and I am in Ontario.

I must say that it took some getting used to with respect to direction. It seems to have two modes where in one mode the arrow would change direction on a static positioned map or a stationary map with a changing arrow direction.

What I did notice is if you opted for a route not suggested by the software, it would recalc after every time you didn't take its suggestion.

Where I found the system had great value (always figured my wife would be quick to tell me where to go [chortle] is when you are in unfamiliar towns. The system directed me to gas, lodging, etc. Very nice. Not real pretty but definitely adequate.

The best of all feature for me - the cost. I didn't want the NAV or the Sat radio. The dealer reduced the price of each just to move his 07 in the showroom. So, for being free, it works okay for me :)

you get what ya pay for maybe?

I like it. it does what it does. I wouldn't mind few improvements myself...

I had a garmin 496, and that was a 3,000 when I bought it. I'd have to say the algorithm of this and the 496 is pretty close. but the 496 was much faster

My Garmin has been very useful, but it has had a couple of issues. It sometimes suggests a route that just isn't practical, for example, a major road that I want to avoid during rush hour. Also, recently, I took a newly-completed ring-road around part of the city of Edmonton, and it didn't exist on the map. The map showed me driving across an empty field, while the voice kept announcing "Recalculating! Recalculating!" I tried to update the software, only to find out that it was going to cost $89.00, and there was no guarantee it would include the up-dates I needed, like Edmonton's ring road.

My Garmin has been very useful, but it has had a couple of issues. It sometimes suggests a route that just isn't practical, for example, a major road that I want to avoid during rush hour. Also, recently, I took a newly-completed ring-road around part of the city of Edmonton, and it didn't exist on the map. The map showed me driving across an empty field, while the voice kept announcing "Recalculating! Recalculating!" I tried to update the software, only to find out that it was going to cost $89.00, and there was no guarantee it would include the up-dates I needed, like Edmonton's ring road.

With the way prices have been dropping, in another month or so they won't bother making map upgrades for the cheaper units, since a new one will be pretty close in price. No point in paying $90ish for a new map when a new unit is less than $150.

Heck, TomTom's map prices (calculated in Euros, then translated to dollars) run about $140ish- VERY close to the price of a new TomTom ONE. I bought new maps for half off, but with the update being a REAL pain in the rear (it did some weird stuff, then settled down), it isn't worth the frustration. Next time I'll hand off the old one and buy new.

My Garmin has been very useful, but it has had a couple of issues. It sometimes suggests a route that just isn't practical, for example, a major road that I want to avoid during rush hour.

Neil: Your town has a rush hour? [chortle];)