Does anyone else worry about the performance of the 2.4L 172hp 4 cylinder? I really think that the Patriot will be my next vehicle, and I really like all aspects of it (price, fuel economy, utility, looks, capability, etc) except for the fact that it might be slightly underpowered. Can anyone who has driven or owns the 2.4L Compass offer any insight? I guess this was the best compromise of performance and fuel economy available. I will gladly take 27 - 30 mpg (I've seen both figures, and am guessing it will be closer to27) as opposed to having a gas hog. I guess I'll just have to test drive one to find out for myself.

Yes it is a bit, but the fuel economy and offroad its fine. Its give and take;)

From what I have read, the CVT is very lame so definitely consider the manual tranny in your purchase. But, we all know that manual trannys offer the best performance and economy relative to the auto/CVT versions, so that's really no surprise. And, you can always add a lift at a later time should that be an issue. It's really too bad DC doesn't offer the lift on the manual tranny version as it once did with the upcountry version of the Cherokee.

Or, you could wait a year and get the six speed manual and turbo diesel being offered as the current export version. I suspect DC should have the diesel sanitized by that time since VW announced it will be offering a 2 liter turbo diesel SUV stateside in the coming year -- DC and VW are part of the bluetec clean diesel initiative.

While I wouldn't say that it has a lot of power, I dont think its underpowered. Its only about 40 hp short of the liberty and the liberty weighs close to 700 lbs. more. Its got more power than the other 4 cylinder competitors such as the Ford Escape (153), Kia Sportage (140), Saturn Vue (144), Honda CR-V (166), and the Rav4 (166). And none of those have any off road ability. I think the reason so many people think its under powered is the CVT. The fact that it doesnt go through the gears like a regular transmission makes it feel as though it has less power than it actually does. If your looking to go fast, this propably wont work for you, but I think its a good comprimise for someone who wants off road ability but enough gas mileage to make it a good daily driver.

if you're looking for something that can fast really quick then i don't see the point in getting a Jeep. Jeeps have never been known for being fast. they are big heavy tanks (which is what i love about them) and are made for off-roading.

if you want speed and a Jeep, go for the JGC SR-T.

I agree. For those of us with 4.0 XJs, we know how quick they are. It has more than enough HP, so the Patriot should do just fine. While its not going to throw one back in the seat, like the XJ, I think the engine will be more than capable. The only question mark is how reliable will the engine be over the long haul. Being a new engine, the buyer is buying into a question mark that only time will answer.

Passing power: Simple. One will need to adjust his/her driving skills to the ability of the vehicle.

If one wants a Viper--then one should buy a Viper.

DKRanger22,

I have test driven a Compass that has the same engine....I think around the city, you wouldn't notice any problem with the engine... perhaps the only time you might notice a lack of real power would be when passing on the highway or perhaps when towing (i.e., ATV, small boat, or snowmobile);

...IF you are NOT a speed demon on the highway, I think you would get used to the tranny and power range and it would be satisfactory...

but do test drive one or even take out a Compass or Dodge Caliber with the same engine to see for yourself...

Now if DCX could just get build a Hemi (plenty of power) that gets at least 30MPG, and slap it in all Jeeps, we would be rockin' indeed. However, something has to give, so at least we have better mileage and off road capability. I think the Patriot will do well.

Or, you could wait a year and get the six speed manual and turbo diesel being offered as the current export version. I suspect DC should have the diesel sanitized by that time since VW announced it will be offering a 2 liter turbo diesel SUV stateside in the coming year -- DC and VW are part of the bluetec clean diesel initiative.

X2

Y'all know what I'm about to say.....:D

Wait for the diesel.

Besides ALL Jeeps (except Hemi equipped) have been called underpowered. Just like ALL Wranglers, CJs, and XJs ride like you're on four pogo sticks. That is the price for outstanding off road capability.

If the Patriot drives anything like the Compass does.... It may 'feel' underpowered but thats the CVT. My wife's Prius has a CVT. It can out accelerate my TJ (and still get 50mpg :mad:). It doesn't 'feel' like it b/c its not shifting.

So to answer your question. The 2.4L is not underpowered, but I would wait for the diesel.

If they do in fact come out with the diesel, that would be sweet indeed for 2008!

if you're looking for something that can fast really quick then i don't see the point in getting a Jeep. Jeeps have never been known for being fast. they are big heavy tanks (which is what i love about them) and are made for off-roading.

if you want speed and a Jeep, go for the JGC SR-T.


I didn't ask whether or not the Patriot was fast. I begged the question is it underpowered. I don't think anyone's wondering what this thing will do in the quarter mile. I commute 70 miles per day to work, and 98% of that drive is on the highway at 65 mph. I see plenty of 100hp Honda Accents on my drive, so I think it's safe to say the Patriot can tackle the freeway. I'm just curious to find out what kind of passing power this thing has, and worry that the 4 cylinder mated to the CVT tranny is really going to work on those occassions that you need to get into the accelerator.

This is going to be my daily driver. No worries, I'm also saving up for a Corvette on those occassions that I really NEED to go fast :D

As someone who commutes close to 100 miles round trip to and from work everyday, I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a 172 HP, 4 cyl engine with a CVT. As I stated earlier, my big question is its reliablity. I know that in most situations, a 4 cyl is not going to perform like a 6 or 8 cylinder engine; therefore, I drive it like the 4 cylinder engine it is.

If I want to surprise a few sports cars owners, I will pull up next to them in my XJ and punch the pedal.

I’ve gotta say goodbye ya’ll.

Yesterday, I bought a 2007 Liberty, sport 4x4. With the incentives (and a free tow package thrown in), I got a $26k truck (tax, tags, and title) for just under $23k.

I drove the Compass to see if I really wanted to wait until March for a Patriot, and I would make the following comments:

1) The Compass is under powered. I drove the 2.4L with the CVT, and while it does get from A to B, I found that it really did not like it when I insisted on quick acceleration into traffic. I guess I could adjust my driving style, and become more cautious. But I bill my time by the hour, and the idea of spending 15 extra minutes a day waiting to turn into a traffic filled road does not sound fun to me. I want to be able to punch it and go.

2) The Compass is too small up front, and fells more like a compact wagon than a truck. I’m a pretty big guy (6’4”), and I am tired of driving a car where my knees are constantly hitting something. I compared the specs on the Compass and the Patriot, and it seems that they will have a very similar interior. I’d be happier if the Liberty was just a little bigger, but still, it is much more comfortable than the Compass (for the driver). I worry that the Patriot will also be too cramped.

3) Did I mention that I got $3.3k off? I wouldn’t get that on the Patriot when it comes out, and since I might sell the vehicle in 5 years, that is money that will come back to papa. Factor in the tax benefits that I get by expensing the car this year instead of next, and it became a no-brainer. The Liberty was effectively the same price to me as the Patriot (FDII) will be, but it is available now. And I drove it home last night.

The compass was quite nice inside. I like the fold-down front seat. I like the lift gate. The so called “cheap plastic” interior did not bother me, although I can comment that the Liberty’s gages and controls have a much more durable feel. I’m sad about the relatively poor efficiency of the Liberty; but after hearing the Compass scream at me when I merged into traffic, I decided that I can live with 19mpg.

I looked at the Escape, since Ford is also offering $3k incentives… but in the end, safety and a solid undercarriage wins over gas mileage too. The Escape rolls in emergency maneuvers, and having once experienced some two wheel action in my old Ranger sport, I think that I’d rather have the ESC with roll mitigation. Plus, the Liberty just feels much more solid than the Escape.

So there’s my take on the whole thing. I enjoyed reading everyone’s comments here, and I hope you all get what you’re looking for… I really think that the Patriot is Jeep’s best hope for the future, given the need to attract new buyers to the brand. I hope my company continues to do well, and eventually has a fleet of Patriots for the techs (shorter than me). But I’ll suck up the extra 3-4 cents per mile in gas costs for the company’s first Jeep.

May the force be with you all.

-Luke

Is the diesel confirmed? I haven't heard anything about that.

Is the diesel confirmed? I haven't heard anything about that.

I really wanted a diesel... I don't know if I could get it to balance out as far as cost goes. Once you toss a diesel in, the price jumps. It would take many many years of driving to recoup the cost.

I dunno what's up with some folks. For the past three years I've been driving around a 93 pontiac grand am 2.3 L 120 HP, 2900 lb vehicle...I have no problems with acceleration, it's actually pretty quick, though I have a 5 speed.

The Patriot is 3200 lbs with the manual trans. and gives 50 more horsepower to go with those extra 300 pounds, so I know the Patriot will be faster than what I drive now. Not only that....but I can shift it into 4-wheel drive!

If I want to accelerate fast I will buy a new Challenger or something and pretend that my gas tank does not have a hole in it.

I really wanted a diesel... I don't know if I could get it to balance out as far as cost goes. Once you toss a diesel in, the price jumps. It would take many many years of driving to recoup the cost.

True its probably going to cost a little more but look at it this way.

My TJ gets approx 18mpg hwy x 12000 miles a year = 667gal
667gal x $2.25/gal(gas) = $1500/year in gas

A gas Patriot w/ 30mpg hwy x 12000 miles a year = 400gal
400gal x $2.25/gal(gas) = $900/year in gas

A diesel Patriot w/ 40mpg hwy x 12000 miles a year = 300gal
300gal x $2.50/gal(diesel) = $750/year in diesel

Of course, gas prices change. Diesel is a bit more expensive than gas. If you look at the numbers there is only a $150 savings a year (when comparing gas and diesel Patriots). Not much.

Now, I can justify buying the diesel because of the $750 savings (when comparing my TJ and a diesel Patriot). The $750 savings should more than cover the cost of the engine. Besides the diesel will have more torque. That means more low end power. Which means better offroad performance. That and I can use biodiesel w/o modification.

Its just like any other option. Some of us might want the Patriot Sport. Others the Limited. 4x2 or 4x4. It all depends on our budgets, needs, wants, and personal preference. I'm still waiting for the diesel.:D

I don't think your ever going to see those kinds of numbers. First, the only way you are going to get 30 mpg in a patriot is if your go with a 4x2 and a manuel transmission. A 4x4 with fdI and an auto drops it to 26 mpg. And if you want the off road package it drops to 23 mpg. The liberty diesel only got about 4 mpg better than the gas, so I would think that if they do offer a diesel in the patriot, if you get the off road package you still wont beat 30 mpg. I would expect about 27 or 28.

I don't think your ever going to see those kinds of numbers. First, the only way you are going to get 30 mpg in a patriot is if your go with a 4x2 and a manuel transmission. A 4x4 with fdI and an auto drops it to 26 mpg. And if you want the off road package it drops to 23 mpg. The liberty diesel only got about 4 mpg better than the gas, so I would think that if they do offer a diesel in the patriot, if you get the off road package you still wont beat 30 mpg. I would expect about 27 or 28.

We'll have to wait and see what the real numbers will be.

You forgot to mention the 18mpg in a TJ. :p

When I first got my TJ, I was getting 15-17 mpg. EPA says 15-18 mpg. I current get 17-20 mpg (4.0L manual tranny). I'm using a few cheats. Sensible driving, acetone, cone K&N filter, TB spacer, cheetah blood to name a few.

So its all relative. ;)

The $750 savings should more than cover the cost of the engine.



I wouldnt bet on that, if they ever even bring it over. A Cummins in a Ram is a $6,000 option, I doubt the Patriot diesel would be that much more but with the new emissions it needs to meet it could be a pretty expensive option. Of course if they ever come here the MVA dealers are going to be asking for at first will probably be more than $750.

I wouldnt bet on that, if they ever even bring it over. A Cummins in a Ram is a $6,000 option, I doubt the Patriot diesel would be that much more but with the new emissions it needs to meet it could be a pretty expensive option. Of course if they ever come here the MVA dealers are going to be asking for at first will probably be more than $750.

We are talking about a 2.0L CRD not a 5.9L Cummins. Completely different designs for completely different purposes. Do you think half the cars in Europe would have diesels if they cost $6000 extra?

The 2.8L CRD option for the Liberty was well under $2000.

The VW 1.9L TDI option is only about $1200 more expensive than a VW 2.5L.

So if DCX and VW are working together on Blue-tec motors, wouldn't that mean R&D, and production costs would go down? Isn't that concept similar to DCX's world engines?

Sure, $750 might come up a little short... $250-$450 short maybe. $5250 short... I seriously doubt that.

Really hard to say how much more, like I said probably not as much as the Cummins and probably not even close. I wouldnt be surprised to see diesel prices jump though if anyone ever actually builds one that meets the new emission standards. So far nobody has one on the street as far as I can tell and I think if the Patriot ever does get one it will be several years away. VW and DCX are supposed to be doing a lot of projects together, but so far nothing has come from it and some of those projects have allready been cancelled. The car VW was supposed to build for Chrysler now looks like it is going to a Chinese company, Chrysler is supposed to build a min-van for VW but I dont know the status of that one. The Chrysler version of that van is still at least a year or two off. Cummins is supposed to build small diesels for the 1500s and SUVs, but those wont come about until 2009 or 2010 at the earliest.

If the price was under $1K more for diesel than I would go for it. If it is over $2K than I would pass. I would like the added torque but diesel is roughly 30 - 50 cents a gallon more than regular gas out here.

This may change as the City of Portland has now passed a law that ...all diesel sold within the city limits contain at least five percent biodiesel as of August 15, 2007, and that all gasoline contain 10 percent ethanol effective November 1, 2007. They only look for ways to get more taxes from you not save you money so I don't see them trying to get the prices lower.

Really hard to say how much more, like I said probably not as much as the Cummins and probably not even close. I wouldnt be surprised to see diesel prices jump though if anyone ever actually builds one that meets the new emission standards. So far nobody has one on the street as far as I can tell and I think if the Patriot ever does get one it will be several years away. VW and DCX are supposed to be doing a lot of projects together, but so far nothing has come from it and some of those projects have allready been cancelled. The car VW was supposed to build for Chrysler now looks like it is going to a Chinese company, Chrysler is supposed to build a min-van for VW but I dont know the status of that one. The Chrysler version of that van is still at least a year or two off. Cummins is supposed to build small diesels for the 1500s and SUVs, but those wont come about until 2009 or 2010 at the earliest.

Touche. Thats why I'm looking at a 2012 Patriot.

If the price was under $1K more for diesel than I would go for it. If it is over $2K than I would pass. I would like the added torque but diesel is roughly 30 - 50 cents a gallon more than regular gas out here.

This may change as the City of Portland has now passed a law that ...all diesel sold within the city limits contain at least five percent biodiesel as of August 15, 2007, and that all gasoline contain 10 percent ethanol effective November 1, 2007. They only look for ways to get more taxes from you not save you money so I don't see them trying to get the prices lower.

I have a feeling the diesel option will be within the $1000 to $2000 range. Like soooo many other things with the Patriot we'll have to wait and see.

Of course, we have to keep those record oil profits coming in for those poor oil companies. :mad: I like the 5% biodiesel requirement.

DKRanger22,

I have test driven a Compass that has the same engine....I think around the city, you wouldn't notice any problem with the engine... perhaps the only time you might notice a lack of real power would be when passing on the highway or perhaps when towing (i.e., ATV, small boat, or snowmobile);

...IF you are NOT a speed demon on the highway, I think you would get used to the tranny and power range and it would be satisfactory...

but do test drive one or even take out a Compass or Dodge Caliber with the same engine to see for yourself...

Friend of mine in Germany has a Caliber (US Specs). I talked to him just the other day and asked him how he liked driving it on the Autobahn, and he said there's no problems. He gets it up to 80ish and has no complaints. (Tame speed for European driving, but pushing the envelope for speed limits here...)

I told him that I'm planning on getting a Patriot, and what with them being built on the same platform I was curious as to how he liked the way his car handled.

I'm no speed demon (here, anyhoo...get me on the autobahn and it's a different story...:p ), but I'm already preparing myself for when Hubby complains about any lack of speed or passing ability on the part of my future Patriot. Bear in mind that Hubby's daily driver is a Nissan 300z...and he has the driving record to back that up. (insert me shaking my head in defeat here)

Now...I don't know what engine my friend has on the Caliber or anything like that. But he's headed my way for a bit starting tomorrow, so I can find out for you if you want.

X2

Y'all know what I'm about to say.....:D

Wait for the diesel.

Besides ALL Jeeps (except Hemi equipped) have been called underpowered.
*Dad had a 2001 Cherokee and it hauled ASS (for a N/A 6cyl) Would spin all tires in a light snow and in low gear it felt like it would do a wheelie...so umm yeah*


So to answer your question. The 2.4L is not underpowered, but I would wait for the diesel.

*since when are diesels fast??? I dont see a turbo diesel being put in it and Diesel w/o a turbo = a Dog! Had a 1980 caddy with a diesel w/o turbo and it was the biggest turd ever!*

my .02

Nearly all Deisels these days are turbo!! My Diesel patriot will do 0-62 in 10 secs & a top of about 120mph. Plus i get 38-45mpg . A tank range of 350 -450 miles!! In fact on a demo run a British diesel Pat went from London to Berlin on a tankful 650 miles?? Not sure how they did that , but its documented!!

What have you been smokin', Caddydaddy? There's no such thing in Europe as a diesel car without a turbo! We have diesels over here (VW, BMW, Audi) that don't have a problem with 120 miles per hour! We even have a Jaguar diesel that does over a hundred and sixty!
You can't hear a modern diesel when it's purring along.
A nineteen -eighty Caddy! A nineteen-eighty Caddy!!! Can yous believe this?
D'you really reckon that we all go clatterin' around in ole farm trucks over here?
Hey, Rends, it must be hell over there in the Bundesrepublik, having freeways with no speed limit and you diesel drivers struggling to do fifty miles an hour, eh?

:D
Rocal

*since when are diesels fast??? I dont see a turbo diesel being put in it and Diesel w/o a turbo = a Dog! Had a 1980 caddy with a diesel w/o turbo and it was the biggest turd ever!*

my .02

GM simply turning an unmodified gasoline engine into a diesel is the very experiment that soured all Americans on Diesels to this day. Those ill tuned, fume belching, junk heaps are probably what caused the anti-diesel EPA regulations.

^ what they said, go test drive a new diesel truck and let me know if you still think they're slow.

1st gear slow
2nd kicking in
3rd watch out!
4th see ya
(hey, its not a race car, but the diesel performs pretty good especially in cold weather)

Great discription George!!----with you on that one mate!!

Great discription George!!----with you on that one mate!!

Now all it needs is a chip and exhuast :D

From what I have read, the CVT is very lame so definitely consider the manual tranny in your purchase. But, we all know that manual trannys offer the best performance and economy relative to the auto/CVT versions, so that's really no surprise. And, you can always add a lift at a later time should that be an issue. It's really too bad DC doesn't offer the lift on the manual tranny version as it once did with the upcountry version of the Cherokee.

Or, you could wait a year and get the six speed manual and turbo diesel being offered as the current export version. I suspect DC should have the diesel sanitized by that time since VW announced it will be offering a 2 liter turbo diesel SUV stateside in the coming year -- DC and VW are part of the bluetec clean diesel initiative.

Is there any confirmation from Jeep that the Diesel Patriot & Compass are going to be sold in North America?

I don't think your ever going to see those kinds of numbers. First, the only way you are going to get 30 mpg in a patriot is if your go with a 4x2 and a manuel transmission. A 4x4 with fdI and an auto drops it to 26 mpg. And if you want the off road package it drops to 23 mpg. The liberty diesel only got about 4 mpg better than the gas, so I would think that if they do offer a diesel in the patriot, if you get the off road package you still wont beat 30 mpg. I would expect about 27 or 28.

http://www.cleangreencars.co.uk/jsp/cgcmain.jsp?lnk=401&featureid=846&description=Toyota%20Prius%20vs%20Jeep%20Patriot:% 20the%20great%20MPG%20test&category=Clean%20Green%20Cars

Diesel Jeep Patriot Vs. Toyota Prius in a MPG Test.

Let's just say it was a photo finish.
:)

Bare in mind that although the diesel is powerful, with nice torque and everything, you can not get FDII without CVT - meaning no low gearing, no BLD, no HDC. And, to my experience, they are MUST HAVE for any off-roading above trivial. Everything else that FDII have can be upgraded with FDI - skid plates, tow hooks, etc. But those three things are.... well, I already said!

http://www.cleangreencars.co.uk/jsp/cgcmain.jsp?lnk=401&featureid=846&description=Toyota%20Prius%20vs%20Jeep%20Patriot:% 20the%20great%20MPG%20test&category=Clean%20Green%20Cars

Diesel Jeep Patriot Vs. Toyota Prius in a MPG Test.

Let's just say it was a photo finish.
:)



very interesting article, now when will the U.S. get on board with the diesel...thank you for the post

I have FDI 4x4 auto... I have never gotten more than 23mpg, and I am used to the trans by now.. It is still good MPH for a 4x4..

As far as underpowered goes... I don't understand what a lot of "professional" reviewers or cust reviews are talking about.. It is a 4 cyl 4x4, it is what it is. I have driven a CR-V, Rav4, Element, and my previous car was a forester.. All 4 cly vehicles in the same class.. None had more power than the Patriot.. Only the Forester had a better pick up because it was a 5 speed... Of all of them, I really didn't think the interior was any better either. Although I have heard the new Rav 4 and CRV have improved interior quality.

IMO, I don't think there is a better bang for your buck than a patriot. It came down to a pat or forester, and the Subaru, with less options was almost $4k more. I had a lot of problems with my old forester so it was a no brainer for me. Also, of all the vehicles I mentioned, the Patriot is the only true 4x4 of all of them.

Just my 2 cents.

Jeeps aren't fast? Have you seen the Jeep Cherokee SRT????? 0-60 in 5 seconds!!!! Thats faster than a Subaru WRX.I agree this Patriot is the best bang for the buck.Got my sport 4x4 with all kinds of accessories for $12,000 with only 19,000 miles on it.It has the CVT1 privacy glass the rubber mats and a bunch of other stuff.I could not find a small SUV with this great gas mileage and options for the price. I have been very happy with my purchase the only thing that bugs me sometimes is the plastic interior and the blind spot backing up on the drivers side.I have come pretty close to hitting stuff when I first got it but now I know to sit up a little more to get a better view (I am 5'10) sorry for the long post

very interesting article, now when will the U.S. get on board with the diesel...thank you for the post

Hopefully sooner than later. The Diesel choices in Canada are Very Limited. A couple of VW models and the Jeep GC, but this is probably the last year for the Diesel Jeep GC.

if you own a jeep compass a 2.4 liter is fine because its really more like a car but for a patriot it seems a bit underpowered but you dont really notice.but if offroad is the concern then a patriot with 4wd is great.

I dont think the 2.4 is enough for 4-wheeling, and as such I just bought the front wheel drive . It was an economy thing.

I've gotta say that after a year and a half, I'm about ready to get rid of it. I've got the 2007 manual, and that helps a little with being able to run the rpms up a bit, but there've been numerous times that I just simply wish it would get up, and get out of its own way. It's not an impediment to traffic, but for me personally, I need more power for higher speed situations. Texas drivers are nuts.

I dont think the 2.4 is enough for 4-wheeling, and as such I just bought the front wheel drive . It was an economy thing.

I have covered thousands of miles off-road in my Patriot and lack of power has never yet been an issue.

I know that several people have reported difficulties getting moving again from a standing stop, due to insufficient torque with the torque converter stalled, but that is not a problem I have had yet.

I think some people on this thread are missing the point, I believe one is getting a lot of vehicle for the money. Want V6 power then pay another 5 to 10 grand. I pass a lot of semi's and B trains on BC highways and the Pat. is no slouch. Its no corvette either but I pick my spot and it gets past right smart. It has more get up and go than the Intrepid it replaced.

I got the Pat. because its more of an all round vehicle, decent in town, on the highway and backroads and lots of vehicle for the price. The CVT is great when on cruise control, no surprise dropping a gear on a hill, just smooth application of power. It was great in all the snow we got this year, still waiting for globull warming.

yes,Patriot isn't ready for the Daytona 500 and you won't burn the rubber at traffic lights but it does what normal vehicle should do.When fully loaded[4 well fed adults,a dog + all the camping gear + roof box],I never had any feeling it was under powered,mind you I drive a stick,brakes work great as well,my 07 Pat has rear discs as well

I agree with seamutt.For what I paid for it,theres nothing close to it.Everything we looked at was about 3 grand more.

I'm a little concerned with people saying the Patriot is slower than the Cherokee. My 4.0 makes a lot of noise, but that's about it, when you push the pedal. Mind you, with almost 200k, she's getting kinda tired... but there is no really large amount of accelleration. It goes OK if you really push the pedal hard, but I wouldn't classify it as 'fast'.

Then again, I've got a GSXR for that, what I need is something to run to Lowes, the Grocery Store, drive cross country, go camping, and haul the bike. Patriot sounds like it's a pretty good match for those, and gets good MPG to boot (compared to the XJs 12mpg actual)

I don't know what some of yous guys have bought an SUV for. You really wanted an XF Jaguar or something. I have a six-speed manual diesel and, when that turbo kicks in I've not come across a situation where I needed anything more. On a dark road a month or so ago coming back over the Pennines from Rochdale at about two in the morning I was doing around a hundred and...I was going pretty briskly, let's just say...and I felt that there was still something in the glass under the bonnet (hood). Acceleration has never, not ever been a problem. A Pat is quicker than a LandRover Freelander 2 and that is a top of this range vehicle. It is way, way quicker than a BMW X3 as well as being more responsive. I'm not just making wild claims here; I've either owned or borrowed both these other vehicles and I'll stick to what I've claimed.
Don't bother about what you've read in road test magazines; trust Rocal. You Know It Makes Sense!

I agree with much of what I have read. I have a 4x4 FDI (manual) and have never felt it was underpowered. A simple downshift was often all that was required to pep things up.

You know how it goes, the fuel economy guys want power and the power guys want better fuel economy.

I just test drove a 2009 Patriot 4x2 5 speed manual. The main thing I was looking at was how powerful it was (for a 4 cyl anyway). I was very impressed. I think if you get the CVT, it may seem slower, but the manual is where its at. I just put down my deposite.

The 2.4L with CVT should be plenty for most people. If you want more zoom, get the manual tranny. But don't whine to us when you are inching through rush-hour freeway traffic. If you are actually going to off-road the Patriot, perhaps get the manual. If you are over 50 and tired of shifting like me, get the CVT. It takes some getting used to, but overall you will be impressed and happy. Best luck.

The 2.4L with CVT should be plenty for most people. If you want more zoom, get the manual tranny. But don't whine to us when you are inching through rush-hour freeway traffic. If you are actually going to off-road the Patriot, perhaps get the manual. If you are over 50 and tired of shifting like me, get the CVT. It takes some getting used to, but overall you will be impressed and happy. Best luck.


I was under the impression you'd want the FDII with the CVTL for off road? I'd love a manual again, miss driving a stick, and the mileage looks impressive. But I do want a 4x4, and while the manual can be gotten with the 4x4, the FDII unit is supposed to be better for off-road as it comes with the oil cooler, better cooling system, heavier duty altenator, slightly taller suspension, bigger tires, higher driveline vents, and better water sealing.

Yeah, true, I probably won't do any kind of off-roading that'd really -require- FDII, especially considering the lack of hills around here, but it'd be nice to have on a camping trip up to the mountains or back to Michigan to see the family. Doubley so if my plan to move to Colorado comes to fruition.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for a speed demon. Although it'd be nice to have something that can get out of it's own way, people drive like -idiots- around here on race weeks (ok, all the time, they just multiply in number on race weeks). Plus I do intend to eventually tow a trailer with it, probably two motorcycles and two-three people with all their gear.

If you want to tow, keep in mind that you are limited to 1000 lbs unless you have the 2.4L with the optional AHC Trailer Tow Prep Package, which increases capacity to 2000 lbs. It appears this is included on the 2009's only with the Freedom Drive II Off-Road Package, either with the CVT or 5-speed manual transmission. Even so, I would hesitate towing over 1000 lbs with a 2.4L in a 4500 lb vehicle. And I would never tow 2000 lbs more than infrequently for short distances with a CVT transmission.

From the 2009 Patriot Owners Manual Page 340:
Trailer Towing Weights (Maximum Trailer Weight Ratings)
The following chart provides the maximum trailer weight ratings towable for your given drivetrain.
Engine/Transmission Frontal Area Max. GTW (Gross Trailer Wt.) Max. Tongue Wt. (See Note 1)
2.0L Auto/Man 22 sq ft (2.04 sq m) 1,000 lbs (450 kg) 150 lbs (50 kg)
2.4L Auto/Man 22 sq ft (2.04 sq m) 1,000 lbs (450 kg) 150 lbs (50 kg)
2.4L Auto/Man with Trailer Tow Prep Package (AHC) 32 sq ft (3.0 sq m) 2,000 lbs

I just did a 1000 mi trip in 4 days from southern Illinois to northern Wisconsin. My Pat is a 07 4x2 with a CVT. I ran 65-70mph going up (air off, windows open 2in) and got 29.4 going up and running 65-70mph back (air on) and got 30.8 coming back. I figure I must have had a tailwind to get better mpg with the air on, but I am very satisfied with these figures. Wife and beer cooler and other stuff on board too.

I just test drove a 2009 Patriot 4x2 5 speed manual. The main thing I was looking at was how powerful it was (for a 4 cyl anyway). I was very impressed. I think if you get the CVT, it may seem slower, but the manual is where its at. I just put down my deposite.

I thought about this thread yesterday while driving it seemed, everywhere freeway I went I stayed 70- 80mph, able to pass anything by simply stabbing the gas pedal.

I have the automatic, but do know how to drive it, and have absolutely no problem with it's power curve, from day one.

OK so its a Turbo Diesel 6 speeder , but like Rocal, In all situations I seem to have shed loads of power to spare.....

or as the F1 Tornado pilots say " Nothing stays on my tail,,,Unless i want them There" !!

I didn't ask whether or not the Patriot was fast. I begged the question is it underpowered. I don't think anyone's wondering what this thing will do in the quarter mile. I commute 70 miles per day to work, and 98% of that drive is on the highway at 65 mph. I see plenty of 100hp Honda Accents on my drive, so I think it's safe to say the Patriot can tackle the freeway. I'm just curious to find out what kind of passing power this thing has, and worry that the 4 cylinder mated to the CVT tranny is really going to work on those occassions that you need to get into the accelerator.

This is going to be my daily driver. No worries, I'm also saving up for a Corvette on those occassions that I really NEED to go fast :D

The Corvette will definitely be faster! You knew that. Is not as fast as the Bravada I once owned, but the Pat gets twice the miles from a gallon of gas. :smiley_thumbs_up: However, if you're late for work in your Patriot, it wasn't the Patriot's fault.

I just did a 1000 mi trip in 4 days from southern Illinois to northern Wisconsin. My Pat is a 07 4x2 with a CVT. I ran 65-70mph going up (air off, windows open 2in) and got 29.4 going up and running 65-70mph back (air on) and got 30.8 coming back. I figure I must have had a tailwind to get better mpg with the air on, but I am very satisfied with these figures. Wife and beer cooler and other stuff on board too.

I'm officially jealous.

I've never seen better than 25-26mpg on a lengthy roadtrip.

My 2.0 diesel 6 speed is getting faster and faster now she's beginning to be run in. Pop her into 3rd and hit the throttle and as soon as the turbo kicks in away you go. The engine is very torque'e. I can even go around corners in 3rd. You'd love the diesel if they would let you have them over in the States. I think I'll leave her in 3rd. lol.

Gaze: Just FYI, before I left I made sure all the tires were at 35 lbs. I checked the dash monitor against my tire gauge. This is with 27k and origional spark plugs and vacumed origional air filter.

Nearly all Deisels these days are turbo!! My Diesel patriot will do 0-62 in 10 secs & a top of about 120mph. Plus i get 38-45mpg . A tank range of 350 -450 miles!! In fact on a demo run a British diesel Pat went from London to Berlin on a tankful 650 miles?? Not sure how they did that , but its documented!!

Must have taken the bridge!:icon_rolleyes: