Engine Stumble [Archive] - Jeep Patriot Forums

: Engine Stumble


JeepHankins
11-27-2009, 07:49 PM
I've noticed lately that my engine has started stumbling (intermitantly) when I'm stopped at a trafic light or just idling. The RPM drops a little below 500 and it almost stalls and then it picks up again to normal idle around 600-700. It seems like a fuel problem to me. I only have 32000kms on it so i doubt the plugs need to be changed yet. Even if they did I think the engine would run rough all the time. I doesn't happen every time I'm sitting at a traffic light but it happed a couple of times the other day and to my wife also. I took it to the dealer and it wouldn't do it for them. Which is tipical. Has anyone else had this problem?

JeepHankins

jessi
11-27-2009, 08:32 PM
i have this problem about 3-4 times a week. ill just be sitting at the lights. and itll start dropping revs, i let go of the brake, and it picks up rpm right away again.

i dont know what it is and the dealer hasnt been able to do anything, but its very weird. since i changed my plugs at 50000km and the new ones only have 12000km on them. but i havent done the major major services. just oil changes.

harold
11-27-2009, 09:49 PM
maybe....

radiator fans kicking in?
aircon kicking in?
something to do with the brake servo?

JeepHankins
11-28-2009, 12:32 PM
No its not anything kicking in. Im pretty sure of it. also jessi, now that you said it happens with your brake on, i'm starting to think that i'm pretty sure it happens with my brake on too. maybe its got something to do with the brake assist?

jessi
11-28-2009, 04:04 PM
its definitely something to do with the brakes. do u have a cvt or manual.

i got the cvt, 2.4L, 4x2

but it happens to me when im already at a complete stop.

Ignatz
11-28-2009, 07:56 PM
Yep, I noticed that problem once. Stopped at a light, daytime, dry, 50ish temp -- nearly stalled. I couldn't see a reason for it; I shifted to neutral, revved it up a little, and haven't had the problem since, though sometimes the idle speed does seem to drop a little when stopped at a light with the brake applied.

JeepHankins
11-28-2009, 08:04 PM
I have a cvt 2.0L

Keeping Fingers Crossed
11-28-2009, 10:05 PM
Same deal here too..happens approx once or twice a month,,Canadian gas?

JeepHankins
11-28-2009, 10:42 PM
I've looked through the service manual and it is useless. basicly you have to hook up to the pat with starscan and look for a fault code and trouble shoot from there. Its very hard to find out info from that service manual. So far I've found for "Engine stalls or idles rough 1. Idle speed too low. 2. incorrect fuel mixture 3. Intake manifold leakage 4. faulty ignition coil(s) 5. contamination in oil control valve (OCV)."
I can't find out how to trouble shoot any of these

DIVERHERB
12-05-2009, 12:43 PM
Mine is a 2009 w/2.4-cvt-4x2 and is doing the same thing. Has happened 3 or 4 times. I dont think it has anything to do with the brake, jjust a coincendence as the only time it does it is when I have been driving and come to a stop so naturally have foot on brake. I have hooked mine up to starscan and found no faults or any sensors acting up. Looked for tsb's but at the moment there are none.

todde702
12-05-2009, 12:50 PM
Perhaps a sticking Idle Control Valve? Maybe a throttle body cleaning is needed or something? Remember these are drive by wire vehicles and the computer controls opening and closing the throttle. I don't know if these things even have an ICV to be honest since the computer could just crack open the throttle plate to adjust idle speed.

klingoff
12-05-2009, 01:34 PM
I haven't had this issue with my Pat yet (34,000KM and counting), however, I did have it with my last vehicle and I found it happened everytime I filled up at Irving or PetroCanada (PetroCanada being the worst).

So I blamed it on bad gas and have been filling up at Ultramar ever since with no issues.

JeepHankins
12-05-2009, 08:07 PM
I put in Lucas fuel additive last week and I havn't had it stumble since.

Afmcronnie
12-05-2009, 08:38 PM
Sounds like water in the gas. Condensation in the fuel tank? Warm and humid in the day then cold at night will cause condensation on the inner tank walls. My F150 was notorious for this. STP and a full tank keeps it in check.

JOMOI
12-06-2009, 09:10 AM
What type of Lucas fuel aaditive you put in? I'm seing the same problem with my 2007 Pat.

KazJeep
12-07-2009, 09:56 AM
I have the same issue but have stayed away from adding fuel cleaners since the manual says not to. However if some Lucas will fix it, I will get some. Which one should I get?

JeepHankins
12-11-2009, 05:37 PM
I used the lucas complete fuel treatment with injector cleaner. 155ml bottle. I still havn't had any problems since.

KazJeep
12-14-2009, 10:30 AM
Will pick some up today--TY Hankins!

djp_63
12-14-2009, 02:18 PM
I will add my Jeep to this list (07 2.4 CVT). Like some of you all, this stalling at idle was an occasional issue but has since been worsening. I first suspected bad gas or even Ethanol because I sometimes noticed the issue right after getting gas. Along those lines, I have had the GASCAP warning on the odometer readout a couple times. That is mostly when it gets cold or a weather change (I live in Florida).

Lately, the idle will be fine, and in around 30-40 seconds, you can notice a little hesitation and then the RPM begin to go down until it may stall or you need to give it a little gas. Not good. There must be some sharp Chrysler mechanic on here that has ran into and solved this. I would like to have a good idea of what is going on before I take it in for them to play guess.

Idle Air Control valve?

Throttle Position Sensor?

Bad Gas?

Bad gas and this problem?

Bad EGR valve?

PCM recall?

JamesNewJeep
12-14-2009, 02:33 PM
I like to call this "hunting." IT has happened in a few cars that I have owned. Idle air control motor is a possibility, but eventually this will cause MAJOR problems. I got in a car once that had a bad IAC, it was revving at like 3500 RPM. Put that thing into drive and it took me for ride! Had to turn it off and push it into the shop it was so dangerous. I would give your throttle body a good cleaning with the same stuff they use for scheduled maintenance. As far as fuel additives, most manufacturers have a fuel cleaning system they use for scheduled maintenance. They might like you to think it some fancy machine that cycles your fuel system, but it is not. Similar to STP or Gumout or whatever. Just go to the dealer and ask for their fuel cleaning stuff. If you can find the same thing in the store it will most likely be cheaper. Lucas products are fine on cars out of warranty. But do not be surprised if they wont warranty something like a trans or engine replacement when they see some funny colored gunk come out of either of those. As far as the dealers, this is a pretty common problem in a lot of cars. I kind of ignored it on my last car. But on a newer car with lower miles I would definitely be banging on the dealer doors for answers.

robi454
12-14-2009, 02:47 PM
This could be any number of things. Fuel, air, brakes, one sticky valve. Your best bet is to hook up to a diagnostic and recreate the problem. Yes, it will cost you some cash. But from here the problem will only get worse and could cause more problems down the road.

DIVERHERB
12-16-2009, 04:59 PM
I work at a dealership and have experienced this with my wife's Patriot. I have run the diagnostics on it twice but found nothing. All the systems seem to be functioning as designed. I have checked tsb's and there are none refering to this problem. The Sebrings a few years back had a very similar problem and they solved it by reprograming the pcm but as of yet I have heard nothing of such a fix.

stretch
12-16-2009, 05:22 PM
What about this TSB

http://www.wkjeeps.com/misc/Patriot/TSB/tsb_1801708a.pdf

KazJeep
12-16-2009, 05:35 PM
Nice find Stretch. I will show that to the dealer :D

stretch
12-16-2009, 05:44 PM
I wasn't experiencing what you guys are, but the dealer updated that and my ABS and TPMS all while getting an oil change. I like my dealer pretty good.

djp_63
12-16-2009, 06:08 PM
I did have my software updated over a year ago, which didn't seem to do much. I need to have it looked soon, but I wanted to do a little investigating before I took it in. Thanks for the TSB.

davecanuck
12-16-2009, 06:53 PM
http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5794

folks, all the tsbs maintained in the thread above

Weatherman
12-16-2009, 08:40 PM
Just to debunk the brake assist theory, mine does this occasionally also and I have a 5spd. So sitting at the light with the clutch in and no brakes applied this still happens every once in awhile.

DIVERHERB
12-17-2009, 12:04 PM
Found that tsb but it did not apply to my pcm part number so can't update.

deltaboy
12-19-2009, 02:31 AM
Has anyone else had this problem?

mine seems to do it every odd week. standard dip in RPM at stop lights. in addition, when i let off the brake to accelerate, it warrants a short pause before she gets going. its a weird feeling, like my momentum always has me leaning forward, but the vehicle stands motionless. im feeling brave to say it happens mostly when the weather is cold/wet...

i run a 2008 4x4 2.4L CVT with 34000K. i will mention it add the dealer on my 35K service.

ps.. i ONLY use Chevron gasoline!

JeepHankins
12-21-2009, 05:59 PM
thanks stretch i will give this to my dealer too

steelblitzkrieg
12-23-2009, 06:17 PM
Mine did this, albeit mostly while driving. Bad crank positioning sensor.

Tskm2
12-26-2009, 12:41 PM
i have the same problem with mine, now he javec 61 500km on, and it start this problem after 60 000km.... i check it this afternoon

drshame
12-27-2009, 10:47 PM
My 09 Patty had the same problem with less than 1 year on the road.
Chevron Techron helped some but didn;lt compelktely fix it.
The dealer checked it all out and replaced the PCM under the warranty and it seems to have fixed the problem.
I'm guessing bad gas or clogged injectors could cause the problem and maybe the PCM can't correct for it.
Maybe the newer PCM's have more capability.
Or the injectors and Gas was fine and the PCM was just bad.
We were told on ours...it's warranted for 70,000 miles.
I'll see how long the "fix" lasts.

JOMOI
01-10-2010, 04:10 PM
It's been two weeks now and my patriot 2007 has not had the enfine stumble anymore :smiley_thumbs_up: I had it happen every two to three days. I took it to the dealer for the first time with (since I bought it 2 months ago). They told me they had seen the problem in several Pats.

They did a diagnostics and it showed no defects, but heir experience told les them to check the ESIM valve and found a leak. This leak was causing the fuel mix (air and gas) to be more air than needed and hence the stumble.

My pat had alreday been flahsed witht he latest software si I know that was not the fix.

I hope this helps!!!

JeepHankins
01-10-2010, 11:59 PM
yeah my stumble is back too. I guess the lucas addative did nothing. I kinda thought it wasn't going to work anyway. I still have to take it into chrysler.

AMCNUT
02-02-2010, 11:23 PM
I've recently began having this stumble issue also. Around 33,000 mi. I also added the Lucas cleaner thinking the injectors may be dirty. It worked for a trip to PA from FL. The weather in PA was very cold 12-20 deg F. Now that I'm back in FL with almost 36,000mi the stumble has returned. Thanks for the TSB, PCM and ESIM info I'll head to the dealer before my warranty expiers at 36K. I bought my 07 trail rated 4X4 Pat 1 month before the lifetime warranty was offered.

Vultite
02-03-2010, 02:13 AM
It's been two weeks now and my patriot 2007 has not had the enfine stumble anymore :smiley_thumbs_up: I had it happen every two to three days. I took it to the dealer for the first time with (since I bought it 2 months ago). They told me they had seen the problem in several Pats.

They did a diagnostics and it showed no defects, but heir experience told les them to check the ESIM valve and found a leak. This leak was causing the fuel mix (air and gas) to be more air than needed and hence the stumble.

My pat had alreday been flahsed witht he latest software si I know that was not the fix.

I hope this helps!!!

update? any issues since the ESIM valve fix?

djp_63
02-03-2010, 09:07 AM
My stumble subsided when I drove to DC from Florida during the Christmas blizzard. The Jeep ran great and idled so smooth that I knew the shop would not be able to repeat the problem. Again, I wondered about the ethanol in all Florida gas, because the stumble crept back once we returned. So I am watching this thread to see if anyone is getting any resolution. I am off of warranty, and I will have to wait to spend the money. Other than this one issue, my Patriot has had zero problems in 75K miles with steady 26-28 mpg.

sk00by
02-21-2010, 03:03 PM
bump any update for the ESIM valve fix?

starrbelle
02-23-2010, 04:13 PM
I have a 2009 Jeep Patriot with just 16,000 kms...I bought brand new in Sept. 2008. I started having this grinding/rattling noise as well when driving at slow speeds. I took it in to the dealership...they told me they too could hear it. When they called me to come back in and pick it up they said I needed to bring it back in when the foreman was in. So, I did. They then told me the noise had to get worse before they could figure it out. The noise got worse so I brought it back in. The foreman apparently took my car home over night and said he couldn't hear the noise. The minute I got in the car the noise was there. I then took it in to a different dealership...they told me the noise is a characteristic of the CVT transmission and that they couldn't do anything about it. The noise has gotten louder and now my car almost stalls out when idling (at a red light or waiting in a parking lot). I took the vehicle back in AGAIN. They again told me that the noise was normal and that it didn't stall out for them. I feel like I have gotten the run around from both these dealerships and now have sent in a letter to Chrysler Canada just this past Friday. Hopefully they will offer me some assistance, especially now reading that several other people are having the same problems.

bvoils
02-23-2010, 11:47 PM
My wife's 08 with 18k miles just started the rough idle/stalling on Sunday. She took it into the dealer today and all they could come up with was "carbon build up on the throttle plate. Recommend fuel induction service, $129.95." Are you kidding me? $130 to run some Sea Foam through the vacuum lines? And you don't even know if that will fix it? I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one with this problem. I'll print out the TSB from page 2 and see what they say.

drumboz79
02-23-2010, 11:48 PM
hey guys, its been awhile since i've been on the boards.
i just came on to check on this same problem and found this thread at the top.
this "stumble" has happened in the past once or twice but in the last 2 weeks it's increased. today especially, every time i was at a red it would stumble, so i'd throw it in neutral and that would subside the stumbling.
I've also noticed that it happens when the heat is on (can't comment on the a/c as i can't remember if it happened in summer)
I'm booked for my 50,000km this friday so hopefully they've herd about this problem before at my dealership so they can at least attempt to correct it.

i'll post an update after i pick up the vehicle.

KazJeep
02-24-2010, 02:06 PM
Sk00by-you have PM turned off but to answer your question, no I have not had my stumble resolved (have not been to the dealer about it). I guess I should since I think my warranty expires soon. The Lucas treatment does seem to help a little. In fact at Jiffy Lube they wanted to clean my injectors which is what the Lucas is supposed to do since my Pat was at the mileage for it. I think I will take it in next week when I have a couple days off and see what's what.

sk00by
02-24-2010, 11:03 PM
thanks for the update kazjeep

Jayhmbn
02-26-2010, 01:05 AM
I am having this problem too, just exactly as everyone else described. Only happens once in a while. It may happen once and then go away completely for a couple of months. It has never happened more than 2 times in one week though. I have 24,000 miles and it probably has happened maybe 5 times, and the first time was around 12,000 miles.

patroit07
02-27-2010, 11:17 PM
how many miles on it maybe cheap gas and need new fuel filter

klingoff
03-01-2010, 04:08 PM
Mine has started doing this since I posted back in December saying that it didn't. In fact it has done this a few times in the last couple of days.

JeepHankins
03-02-2010, 04:44 AM
It sounds like its cheap canadian gas! I went to the dealer again and brought the TSB and they said that the software was already updated on my pat and maybe I would need to have my injectors cleaned. I asked how much and he said 169.99. I said how often should that be done. He said every 50000. I'm at 34000. So I said forget that. I shouldn't need my injectors cleaned already. But then I started thinking that since there is no fuel filter on these Pats maybe the injectors or valves are dirty or clogged. So I was considering getting my injectors serviced at 50000.

steelblitzkrieg
03-02-2010, 06:09 PM
Are you sure about the lack of the fuel filter? I know many newer vehicles at least in regards to Chrysler have a non-replaceable or self cleaning filter built into the fuel pump/tank.

JeepHankins
03-03-2010, 05:59 PM
I just don't like the fact that there is no replaceable fuel filter. It is the easiest way of making sure all the unwanted particles stay out of the fuel system. All of my other vehicles have had a fuel filter. Mind you this is my newest vehicle. I'm not sure about other new vehicles. Are there fuel filters in them?

steelblitzkrieg
03-04-2010, 12:34 PM
I just don't like the fact that there is no replaceable fuel filter. It is the easiest way of making sure all the unwanted particles stay out of the fuel system. All of my other vehicles have had a fuel filter. Mind you this is my newest vehicle. I'm not sure about other new vehicles. Are there fuel filters in them?

I haven't looked under the hood enough to notice if the space is there to do it, but there are manufacturers for aftermarket higher quality fuel filter add-ons.

An example.

My Dodge Diesel from the factory had a 10 micron filter, they have since changed to a 7 micron filter, the fuel system on it is manufactured by Bosch and they recommend a 5 micron or better. This spring I'll be putting on a Glacier Fuel Filter system that will be 2 micron. I've gone through 2 injectors so far with the Mopar 7 micron filters, fortunately in-warranty as these injectors are $400.00 each for a rebuilt injector not including labor. My last one they tried to charge me $1100.00 P & L claiming I had caused the failure.

http://www.glacierdieselpower.com/product.aspx?pf_id=FF5320-UK

I don't know what the Patriot pump is capable of filtering down to, but the filter kits aren't expensive as seen above.

sdnash
03-28-2010, 05:19 PM
I have a 2007 Patriot 4x4 with CVT, now have 40k miles. I have this issue once or twice a week, it seems intermittent and happens with or without the A/C on. Always happens when I am stopped at a traffic light with my foot on the brake. The engine seems to try to stall and I feel a shutter and the RPM's drop. It only happens for a second and then it starts to idle normally again. Have also had a few instances of beginning to accelerate from a stop and there is a brief lag in acceleration like I'm not getting fuel. This has only happened occasionally. I too have had it at the dealer but they have not been able to replicate the problem. I'm thinking possibly bad fuel or condensation in my fuel tank?

rookie1
03-29-2010, 09:27 AM
I have a 2007 Patriot 4x4 with CVT, now have 40k miles. I have this issue once or twice a week, it seems intermittent and happens with or without the A/C on. Always happens when I am stopped at a traffic light with my foot on the brake. The engine seems to try to stall and I feel a shutter and the RPM's drop. It only happens for a second and then it starts to idle normally again. Have also had a few instances of beginning to accelerate from a stop and there is a brief lag in acceleration like I'm not getting fuel. This has only happened occasionally. I too have had it at the dealer but they have not been able to replicate the problem. I'm thinking possibly bad fuel or condensation in my fuel tank?


purchase extended warranty from jeep website before 48K miles. YOU WILL NEED IT.

burrell9
03-31-2010, 12:47 AM
I had this problem since Sunday it was feeling like it was going to stall out on me a few times.. took it to the dealership and they had it for a few hours they called me back and said they checked everything out and could find nothing I said I wanted them to take the whole thing apart until they found something wrong with it sooo I guess they took a better look called back and told me that they THINK it is the Throttle body.... they told me they think because they had to take stuff apart and to clean the Throttle body it was $80.00 so I said go ahead... I picked it up a little bit ago and it has been running pretty good no vibration really when idling at a red light... Knock on wood that this is what was wrong...

AntDragon
03-31-2010, 12:38 PM
I had this problem since Sunday it was feeling like it was going to stall out on me a few times.. took it to the dealership and they had it for a few hours they called me back and said they checked everything out and could find nothing I said I wanted them to take the whole thing apart until they found something wrong with it sooo I guess they took a better look called back and told me that they THINK it is the Throttle body.... they told me they think because they had to take stuff apart and to clean the Throttle body it was $80.00 so I said go ahead... I picked it up a little bit ago and it has been running pretty good no vibration really when idling at a red light... Knock on wood that this is what was wrong...

I had the same issue right as I passed 20,000 miles. I was going to post a link here but the likely issue many here are having is resolved above...
I had the stall and near stall at idle, in 'Park' mostly before I could get into 'Drive'. The dealer took a couple days to figure it out, it was a "real dirty" throttle body. It was covered under warranty by my dealership. Mechanic advisor suggested cleaning K&N filters (rectangle) every 15-25K miles or so becuase they get too dirty letting stuff accumalte for up to 50K miles (K&N's marketing suggestion!) and crap gets sucked in. They were kind enough to put an air hose to the filter (many of them are Jeep/Dodge truck owners and use K&N too so they were careful not to blow holes through it). They also say the feul injector cleaner stuff might help keep everything cleaner longer and is okay to use every couple thousand miles. Note that I was also told they receomend doing ETC cleaning at 40K miles services.

Runs like new again, even gained 1MPG... cleaniness is the key. Now, to find more dirt trails and mud puddles again....

OGtripleOG
04-04-2010, 04:32 AM
I didn't take the time to read the entire thread so just in case your problem is not fixed... I had the same problem with another car. At idle the engine would stumble a bit. It got worse and worse even as I tried different things to fix it. It ended up being a leak in the engine vacuum. The solution for my car was to replace the Plenum Gasket for the headers. I got codes from the dealer and garages that were all explained and fixed by sealing up the vacuum. If nothing else has worked then this is probably what your problem is. They can run smoke or something through the system to find the leak. Cost me about $800 in the end.

JOMOI
05-05-2010, 11:13 PM
update? any issues since the ESIM valve fix?

Haven't been here in a while. Quick update on mh Pat after the ESMI valve replacementin In dec09. It is still running great and the engin stumble has not returned. I'm certain they neiled it. The problem is the ESMI Valve.

God Bless

dawnandstyran
12-27-2012, 02:26 PM
I've been having this problem ever since I bought my 2008 Patriot. I bought it used @ 26800 miles and it would intermittently stumble at a stop and has even died out on me on a few occasions. The engine light is not on so the dealership always tells me that they cannot do anything because they don't know what is wrong. It has been in and out of the shop at least 6 times and of course it NEVER does when I test drive it with them. It did do it 3x with the Nissan tech (which is where I bought it) but NEVER with the Jeep tech. They've changed the fuel pump/filter, cleaned the throttle body/blade, reset or updated the computer and a bunch of other stuff. What else is left to do? Has anyone found a solution for this problem???? I love the size and everything about my Patriot ... it's just this one problem that is so frustrating because no one can seem to fix it!! OH! yesterday I was driving home and the engine light went on (finally) but I think it may have been due to my boyfriend not closing the gas cap. I did the key trick to pull up a code and now it says "done" ... we plug in the diagnostic doctor thing and it pulls up a code "P0455". Can anyone help??

MB
12-27-2012, 03:54 PM
Well.. this issue seems to be going around alot lately. My Jeep is currently sitting in the dealership being looked at for this reason. I know what your saying and how frustrating it is. My dealership is updating the PCM in the hopes that this will solve the issue.

dawnandstyran
03-28-2013, 05:03 AM
was your dealership able to pin point what was causing the stumble? My patriot still does this and i literally have learned to just ignore it and treat it as "whatever" since no one can ever figure out what is wrong with it. it just did it again the other day and want to say that it does it at least once or twice a week. Sometimes, I just think i don't notice it anymore because it has been ongoing for months now.

sanpedrodave
04-06-2013, 11:04 PM
Hello Patriot Peers
I'm going to add my 2009 idle stumble to this list. I have 32,000 miles on my 2.0 motor and this is the only issue I've had with my Pat. I guess I'll drop it off at the dealer and see what they know. I'm surprised Chrysler Jeep has not figured this one out yet. If we added all the owner that does not see this forum I'm thinking a design issue here. It does feel like a fuel mixture issue that the on board computer trys to compensate for. What's weird is that this stumble is really intermittent and can occur at any time independent of weather. This is happening to me in sunny southern California.