The official Jeep press release says all Patriots will be equipped with "drive controlled, three-mode ESP." As far as I can tell that's a 1st for Jeeps. Any idea what those three modes will be? Maybe off-road, snow, and normal? All I can see in photos is a ESP off button.

Electronic Stability Program (ESP), which aids the driver in maintaining vehicle directional stability in severe driving maneuvers on any type of surface. ESP features three modes -- "full on," "full off" and "partial on."

I tried to engage ESP full off yesterday and I did not get an acknowledgment on the odometer like it says I would. Has anyone else actually seen the ESP OFF warning on the odometer? The manual says to put (a 4x4 only) the car into ESP full off, hold the ESP button for 5 seconds. Then a warning will show on the odometer. Mine does not do that.

I was using my Patriot to do "swamp patrol" on my 1/2 mile long muddy driveway, cutting slots to drain deep puddles, and I wanted all wheels to be turning as much as possible.

I tried to engage ESP full off yesterday and I did not get an acknowledgment on the odometer like it says I would. Has anyone else actually seen the ESP OFF warning on the odometer?

Yes. I don't think mine says ESP OFF, but rather shows a picture of a jeep with squiggly lines behind it, presumably indicating the jeep is skidding out of control or something :)

just pressing the esp button puts the dash light on with the jeep and squiggly lines, holding the esp button for like 5 secs when esp is on "esp off" comes on where the odometer is.

I thought that was what it does when it is in partly off mode. That is good though, I was curious if it was an FD2 only thing. Since yours doesn't do it either then it should be all 4x4s.

The manual claims it will show ESP OFF in the odometer until you touch the reset on the odometer or the ESP button.

I tried full off on my compass yesterday, engine running in neutral with parking brake on. It worked, showing "esp off" in my odometer display (I don't have EVIC). I did not test it to prove it was truely off. It never disables brake TC (electronic limited slip per owner's manual) for split surface friction and alwasy re-enngages fully over 35mph.

just pressing the esp button puts the dash light on with the jeep and squiggly lines, holding the esp button for like 5 secs when esp is on "esp off" comes on where the odometer is.

That is the way I understood it too. Mine never shows "ESP OFF".

u really have to hold it long than 5 secs, its more like 10 and then u get a chime and then the display changes to esp off

I agree you do have to hold the button in for longer than 5 seconds. You also need to remember that you can't turn it all the way off unless you are sitting still when holding the button in. I do hear the chime and esp off shows up which is different than the squiggly line thing that means it's partially off.

u really have to hold it long than 5 secs, its more like 10 and then u get a chime and then the display changes to esp off

Just to see if I was doing it right, I tried it in the Compass. Sure enough, just like the manual says, hold in, chime, ESP OFF.

Then I tried the same thing on the Patriot. I held the button in. The car with the squiggly lines light came on. Then I kept holding the button, after about 15 seconds the car with the squiggly lines light went off. No chime. no ESP OFF on the odometer.

Monday I will have to see what the dealer says.

Here is an update on ESP full off. I went to my dealer today to check out my lack of confirmation that my ESP does in fact go into full off mode. Long story short, they were flummoxed too.

We did come to the conclusion that it will go into ESP full off. However it will never say that it does in the odometer window. If I push the ESP button once the car with the skid marks comes on.(ESP partly off) Push again it goes off. (full ESP on) Push a 3rd time quickly after that, AND HOLD.....after about 5 seconds the car with the skid marks comes on again. This is when we assume the car has gone into ESP full off. Still it will not say ESP OFF.

So I asked the guys if Jeep would eventually issue a programming fix. They said probably. They were pretty curious about this whole deal. They seemed genuinely interested in learning about it and how to solve it even though we did not solve it at this time.

Yet another follow up.

I wrote to Chrysler to ask when they planned to correct this malfunction. Since I explained I had covered the bases with my dealer, they sidestepped and said I should keep in contact with my dealer. Obviously a response by someone in customer "service" (passifacation) who had no idea what I was talking about and didn't bother to familliarize themselves with how the car is supposed to work.

jepstr I get the exact same results as you.

I think full "EPS off" mode is only available with the FDII. Even though it doesn't say that in the manual.

Maybe it doesn't say "ESP OFF" because we have the base model 4x4 :confused:

Yet another follow up.

I wrote to Chrysler to ask when they planned to correct this malfunction. Since I explained I had covered the bases with my dealer, they sidestepped and said I should keep in contact with my dealer. Obviously a response by someone in customer "service" (passifacation) who had no idea what I was talking about and didn't bother to familliarize themselves with how the car is supposed to work.

Thanks for the updates! My 2008 FDI does the same thing as yours (ESP OFF never shows on the display). Hopefully they can figure this out for us. I have not had time to take my Jeep in to the dealership to ask them about it yet. I'm wondering if the 2008 models only have 2 modes of esp (on/off). Weird though. I was able to turn the horn off when I lock the doors by using the directions in the manual and I know that some owners could not do that on their own. Maybe something did get screwed up in the program?? Who knows??

I've tried it before in my 2007 FDI (not trail-rated) Patriot.
I was able to make the EVIC day "ESP off" by holding it down for 10s while in Park.

- This thread caught my eye - I was unable to make this work today, though in my case I was still moving.

Will try when the wife gets in with my car, and advise what worked/didn't.

I Want to go play in the snow, anyways:D

I went out and checked on my 2007 FDI (North).

In Park, hitting ESP turns on the squiggly graphic (ESP partial).
Holding down "ESP off" for 5-10 seconds makes the car chime, the graphic is displayed, and under the PRNDL display is "ESPOFF".

I can also get into this mode while in motion, but it appears to go to full ESPOFF only when I am doing 20km/h or less.


One other thing I found that was curious: The FDI at a stoplight in "L": When the 4x4 lock is engaged, the engine RPMs rise from 750 to about 1100, and the vehicle wasnts to crawl. Very FDII-like behaviour.

jepstr I get the exact same results as you.

I think full "EPS off" mode is only available with the FDII. Even though it doesn't say that in the manual.

Maybe it doesn't say "ESP OFF" because we have the base model 4x4 :confused:

My wife has a compass. It works just like the manual says.

Mine actually does physically go into ESP full off, it just doesn't say. My dealer figured this out. stop the car. push the ESP button. see the light with the car and the squiggly lines. Then push and hold the button for 7 seconds. the light will go off at first, but after 7 seconds it will come back on. then the car is in ESP full OFF. Try it. Your Patriot will climb a tree in ESP OFF! It's like having full time 4WD but with lockers.

I want to find a safe location on my property somewhere to(try to) get stuck just to test the ability of the 4WD. I've already been doing things my trusted CJ8 can not.

I had to try too on my CRD Patriot.

One touch and the ESP is partially off. One tocuh more for 5 second the chime comes on and espoff lights up in the km-display.
But this could only be done when Im standing still.

Time to play - at last :banana::banana:

Thanks to all for these interesting posts. With all the information this site provides, it's amazing that we still learn new things about our Patriots.

Then, for the offroaders, disconnecting the ESP improves the vehicle performance on snow and slippery surfaces? Why? Does it make it less safe?

Thanks to all for these interesting posts. With all the information this site provides, it's amazing that we still learn new things about our Patriots.

Then, for the offroaders, disconnecting the ESP improves the vehicle performance on snow and slippery surfaces? Why? Does it make it less safe?

I am not sure that it is any safer. What happens is with the ESP totally off, it gives the driver more control of his/her destiny. The driver has far more control but has the added responsibility for driving safely. The ESP will *correct* bad situations set by less than ideal drivers.

When you are in the tough situations, the ESP can get fooled and will override what you want to have happen from a mechanical point of view.

...but in a snowy roundabout ESP only spoils the fun :pepper: Scandinavian flick here i come! :D

BTW, 2WD vehicle don't never get ESP Off. Also, 4WD OSP Off is only <35mph (56kph) per manual:

In this mode, ESP and TCS, except for the “limited slip”
feature described in the TCS section, are turned off until
the vehicle reaches a speed of 35 mph (56 km/h). At 35
mph (56 km/h) the normal ESP stability function returns
with the exception of engine power reduction. TCS
remains off. When the vehicle speed drops below 30 mph
(48 km/h) the ESP system shuts off. ESP is off at low
vehicle speeds so that it will not interfere with off-road
driving but ESP function returns to provide the stability
feature at speeds above 35 mph (56 km/h). The “ESP/
TCS Indicator Light” will always be illuminated when
ESP is off.

Mine actually does physically go into ESP full off, it just doesn't say. My dealer figured this out. stop the car. push the ESP button. see the light with the car and the squiggly lines. Then push and hold the button for 7 seconds. the light will go off at first, but after 7 seconds it will come back on. then the car is in ESP full OFF. Try it. Your Patriot will climb a tree in ESP OFF! It's like having full time 4WD but with lockers.

Thanks jepstr,

So to clarify you never even hear the chime? Just the squiggly light comes on (for partial off) - press and hold 7-10 sec. The light squiggly light goes out then after 7-10 sec it comes back on. At this point I will have full ESP off? Also does the the 4x4 lock have to be engaged for this to work?

I guess my question is how do you know for sure?
I'll test it in the bush this weekend to see if I notice a difference between the two.

I have a 2008 4x4 manual sport.

If I push the button, the squigly lines appear.
If I hold the button for over 10 seconds, the light turns back off. At this point, pushing the button (not holding it) neither turns the squigly lines on or off, they just stay off. if a few minutes pass by, pushing this button gets the icon to return.

I have the EVIC but I get no chime or indication.

I have tried pushing the button in all combinations of vehicle behavior, but surely stopped, in neutral, e-brake engaged, seatbelt on, and foot on brake constitutes the most immobile my car can be!

What am I doing wrong?

OK I tried it on my 08 sport fdI today and it does allegedly go into the ESP OFF mode, but without a chime or visual words like the manual says it is suppose to do. I just pushed the ESP Off button once and then pushed it again and held it for 6 seconds and then the squiggly lines came on and stayed on. If I get a good glare on my instrument cluster I don't even see the words "ESP OFF" so they probably changed the clusters and forgot to put the directions in the manual. I work for a company that makes instrument clusters and those things go through so many engineering changes it is ridiculous. They all might be 2008 clusters, but some may be using older components ect... Hopefully someone can actually test this out for sure and make sure that we can put our pat in ESP OFF mode. No snow here in my area anymore.

Just FYI, if you have FDII and you lock the wheels and put it in low the ESP automatically gets turned off and displays ESP OFF. The ESP button then controls Hill Descent.

Just FYI, if you have FDII and you lock the wheels and put it in low the ESP automatically gets turned off and displays ESP OFF. The ESP button then controls Hill Descent.


On my 08 FDII, if you put it in 4wd and L (off road mode) it will partially turn off ESP on it's own. If you hold the ESP button for 5 seconds it will show ESP OFF. If you put the gear shifter up in drive the ESP OFF light will turn off, if you put it back in off road mode the ESP OFF light will be displayed again. I don't know if the ESP is still off in drive and just not showing the light or it can only be fully off in the off road mode.

Thanks jepstr,

So to clarify you never even hear the chime? Just the squiggly light comes on (for partial off) - press and hold 7-10 sec. The light squiggly light goes out then after 7-10 sec it comes back on. At this point I will have full ESP off? Also does the the 4x4 lock have to be engaged for this to work?

I guess my question is how do you know for sure?
I'll test it in the bush this weekend to see if I notice a difference between the two.

My car never chimes unless I leave the lights on, seatbelt off or the key in the ignition. All the other times it should chime, it does not.

I do not know if the 4x4 on or off effects how the ESP OFF works.

How do I know for sure? You had to ask. I just trusted the dealer's word. I have been planning to set the car on jacks to test what it does, but I haven't had the time.

Mine never chimes going into ESP OFF either.

Revision! Mine does chime and display ESP OFF when you put it in off road mode.

Sounds like the 2008 lineup behaves differently than the 2007 with respect to ESP-off mode. Also, from what I read, the behaviour in the 2008 line seems to be different, and depends on whether you have the FDII package or CRD, versus the FD1, where totally turning off ESP deems to be disabled. Makes sense: Complete ESP-off only really makes sense off-road.

I have a 2008 patriot sport 4x4 fdI and i can turn my esp partially off by pressing the button or full off under 35 mph by holding the button for about 5-10 seconds. it beeps and displays esp off in the Cluster. From what i read the Esp is full off in this mode under 35mph and when you go over 35 it turns back on by its self, when you slow back below 35 it will turn off again until you press the esp button again to turn it back on.

Also this is in 4x4 lock and regular mode.

p.s. i tested this in a snow covered parking lot. with esp partially off i could spin the tires going straight but it would engauge upon turning. With esp fully off i could do dounuts in 4x4 lock.

I decided to take a quick video of this to straighten everyone out. I have a 2007 Jeep Patriot Sport 4x4 FD1 (not trail rated). I can press, press and hold or just flat out press and hold either way I'll get a chime and the skidding jeep light and the ESP OFF lights will come on in the instrument panel.

Here's a link to a youtube video I just took to show you what it should look like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRxGn-s_HP0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRxGn-s_HP0

This morning, I turn ESP off for my commute as we had a little snow that turned to 2" of hard ice on most secondary roads. The entrance to my work has a chicane which ESP applied some brakes to the rear for me. I looked down and noticed my speed in the 35-40mph range, so it certainly did turn itself back on.

I am not seeing that video so here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRxGn-s_HP0

Thanks for that video, it was helpful. My Jeep definitely does NOT do that...

no problem man... didn't take long nor was it very hard.

I decided to take a quick video of this to straighten everyone out. I have a 2007 Jeep Patriot Sport 4x4 FD1 (not trail rated). I can press, press and hold or just flat out press and hold either way I'll get a chime and the skidding jeep light and the ESP OFF lights will come on in the instrument panel.

Here's a link to a youtube video I just took to show you what it should look like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRxGn-s_HP0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRxGn-s_HP0

That clears it up for anyone who has a car that works like the manual says it should. This is the behavior I was expecting and my car will not deliver. As we have established, any car that works as yours does leaves no question as to whether it is in ESP Full OFF mode. For the rest of us the matter is still unresolved. I guess, consider yourself lucky that your car works like it should.
Thanks for the video. That is exactly what my wife's Compass does.

On the 08 FDII it will only display "ESP OFF" when you are in the off road mode (low). You can be in Park and hold the ESP button for 5 seconds and it will put it in ESP OFF mode, but it will not display it or turn it off until you put the gear shift in off road (low) and then you will hear the chime. If you put it back in drive the display will go off and I assume ESP will be partially on again. I think there have been several changes in the programing for this.

On the 08 FDII it will only display "ESP OFF" when you are in the off road mode (low). You can be in Park and hold the ESP button for 5 seconds and it will put it in ESP OFF mode, but it will not display it or turn it off until you put the gear shift in off road (low) and then you will hear the chime. If you put it back in drive the display will go off and I assume ESP will be partially on again. I think there have been several changes in the programing for this.

So what you are saying is that my car has delusions of grandure? It thinks it is an FD2? :)

So what you are saying is that my car has delusions of grandure? It thinks it is an FD2? :)

No, I think the FDI programing will allow you to do it in drive. :):)

Thanks for the video JeepJim. Great clarification.

jepster I believe your dealer now when he says we do get ESF off.

When I do exactly what JeepJim did in the video:

- press ESP for "partial off" squiggly light appears

- then press and hold for 5-7 secs the light will go out (for 5-7 secs) then squiggly light comes back on

At this point I believe I have full "ESP OFF" even though it does not say it in the tach.

playbak good point... if jepster shows that to his dealer they won't be able to defend its inability to engage ESP OFF mode with proper indicators.

jepster, I was wonder. Have you had any flashes installed on your Patriot? For recalls or anything? This could have caused the problem if they flashed say a 2wd flash onto a 4wd Patriot.

When a dealer does any kind of PCM flash the scanner is first hooked to the vehicle, reads the vehicles VIN and current program for identification. Then they hook the tool up to a computer in the shop. If there are updates for that specific vehicle/PCM software then they are loaded on the tool and programmed to the vehicle.

Not true Sarge... I went to my local dealer and they accidentally flashed mine with the incorrect flash when I went in to get the DRL's "fixed" The still do not work but Jeep's site thinks it is... Go figure.

playbak good point... if jepster shows that to his dealer they won't be able to defend its inability to engage ESP OFF mode with proper indicators.

jepster, I was wonder. Have you had any flashes installed on your Patriot? For recalls or anything? This could have caused the problem if they flashed say a 2wd flash onto a 4wd Patriot.No. I have not had any Flashes. (hot, cold, back, or otherwise :) ) Although we may be on to something. If a car were originally programmed with the wrong model programming, say a 4x4 programmed with 4x2 software, that might explain what is going on here. I'll quiz my dealer a little more about that possibility it next week.

Say!? How many of you who have cars that do not show the "ESP OFF" in the display had your cars built during the February shut down? I know mine sat for over a week partly finished. Perhaps programming of vehicles got goofed up somehow because the flow of vehicles was interupted.

Mine was built between Feb 21 -29.

Mine was just days before that.

remember they came out with that lack of power flash for 2007's with CVT's if at the factory they accidently reflashed them all with 4x2 flashes... oh god this could be the biggest conspiracy since the roof leak :p

Sorry just trying to make light of a possibly sore subject.

remember they came out with that lack of power flash for 2007's with CVT's if at the factory they accidently reflashed them all with 4x2 flashes... oh god this could be the biggest conspiracy since the roof leak :p

Just like the "patriotic" founding fathers conspired against the King? Patriots love conspiracy! :D

I cannot get mine to do it like the video clip. Not sure when mine was built, but I just purchased it last week (2008, 5sp).

I'll bet there is a way to decode the VIN to give you a build date.

All new jeep come equiped with Electronic Stability Program or ESP. ESP is made possible by your ABS system. This is because to function properly ABS needs to know each individual wheel's speed. The ESP system is designed to monitor the course you are trying to drive and the course you are actually taking. If it senses danger it imputs braking or cuts engine power to regulate the situation. This is great on road, but not so great off road.However, by employing a different mode the system allows the ABS to add traction and function like a locker or limited slip. These different modes allows the driver to switch the system when off road. This is because sometimes the only way to the top is by giving it gas and letting her rip. If in the on road mode the computer would work against you in such a situation. However in the offroad mode the system works with you, and propels you to the top without lots of drama, that a on road system would create. Traditionally rigs with lockers had lots of on road draw backs, while those with open differentials would only spin the tires with no traction. Spinning the tires with no traction causes you to be stuck even if the tires with traction where say, sitting on pavement. So to illustrate this, image pulling off the side of the road where two wheels go into a soft shoulder, but the other tires remain on the pavement. In a rig this a old school open differentials this rig could possible be stuck. This is because the two wheels on the shoulder would spin, while the two wheels on pavement remain motionless. In a new Jeep this does not happen thanks to a very good and very on road friendly 4x4 system.

I have a 5spd 2008 built the end of July 2007 and mine works as advertised. Sometimes it does take a couple of tries and it certainly does feel like longer than 5 seconds.

I got to compare an 07 FDI with my 08 FDII today. The 07 FDI will show the ESP OFF in park, drive and low after you hold the ESP button for 5 seconds. The 08 FDII will only show the ESP OFF and chime when you put it the off road mode and will go off when you put it up in drive. Both have the CVT.

What's the verdict here? I have a 2008 4x4, 5-speed, Limited (Built in 1/2008) that does exactly what "jepstr67" describes. Is there an update/fix for this so that it functions as described in the owner's manual...or do we continue to play the guessing game to whether it is in "ESP OFF" mode or not?

Please let me know what you've found out. I'm planning a visit to the dealer for an oil change and would like this issue addressed if there has been a fix/flash that needs to be performed.

Spencer

I'm not even sure you can assume it's off just because it says it's off.

Oh well, this stuff is all controlled by software so I assume a "reflash" may fix it.

http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6626&page=2

Does anyone with an FDI have ESP full OFF work correctly like the manual says? With the chime and the display of "ESP OFF" in the odometer?

Niether my 4x4 FD1 manual tranny or my wifes 4x4 FD1 CVT works like the manual describes, I get no message on the odometer, no chimes, nothing happens when I hold it for 5 or even 10 seconds. Both Pats bought in the last month.

Mine works per the manual showing espoff, but I have a 2007 Compass FD1 stick. Vehicle stopped, in neutral, clutch out.

My FDI CVT doesn't work as described. Mine does the same as someone else posted, if you hold the button the light eventually turns on, then after another 7 seconds or so turns back off. At this point it's non-responsive for a few minutes. No chime, nothing. I think somethings screwy here. I may never need it, but I would like to know it's working correctly in case I ever do need it.

Mine is a 2007 FD1 base model with manual transmission. It does do what they say. If I hold it in for 5-10 seconds the chime sounds and it says ESP off. I have needed to use the ESP off mode in deep snow and driving steep dirt hills. I would be very upset if it didn't work!

08 CVT here, push the button skwiggly car shows up, then push and hold for a few seconds ESP OFF displayed.

That being said I have yet tyo be able to tell the difference between the 3 settings. The last time I was stopped I was on a very steep sand hill and had all 4 spewing sand in STD mode, trying to go further in any setting was pointless and taking another run in either 1'2 or full off resulted in the same end. As a matter of fact I no longer even put my rig in true 4x4 as it also seems to not make much of a difference. Maybe I am not pushing my rig that hard but I have been stuck and have the scratches on the sides and a few dents in the bottom to show its bush time and I still can't tell the difference.

I wish Light beer was as good as the computer in this thing!

Yeah, I was amazed at the differences in operation, but only ever noticed in deep snow (4" of slush and snow) and sand. For the most part, mine worked. Once, in sand, the EVIC told me that it was ESPOFF, but the true behaviour was that the throttle weas being limited. After transitionning to neutral, and re-engaging ESPOFF, the proper behaviour returned.

I have a 2007 4x4 FD1 made before Apr2007, and was nervous about getting it reflashed with that TSB for fear of losing my proper ESP button operation. After the reflash, I still have access to all 3 modes, and it still drove well in the mud. YAY!

We'll see if my original problem ever returns ( having the EVIC tell me "espoff" and still being RPM-limited to 1500 or so RPM). It was a hard problem to reproduce anyway.

Once, in sand, the EVIC told me that it was ESPOFF, but the true behaviour was that the throttle weas being limited. After transitionning to neutral, and re-engaging ESPOFF, the proper behaviour returned.

That's a good tip. There is evidence that what the EVIC says and what state the system is in are not necessarily the same. So putting it in neutral and redoing the ESPOFF thing is good to remember.

psaulesl, did you drive over 35mph, then slow down again?

psaulesl, did you drive over 35mph, then slow down again?

APT, No - neither me, nor my driveshafts were going anywhere near 35MPH. Small sandpit, timid FD1 driver, all alone.:icon_rolleyes:

08 CVT here, push the button skwiggly car shows up, then push and hold for a few seconds ESP OFF displayed.

That being said I have yet tyo be able to tell the difference between the 3 settings.


on my 07 FDII, there's a huge difference with ESP OFF. It turns off the horrible hill decent control (ABS automatically actuating when rolling down an incline), which is a useless function IMO.

So has anyone actually gotten any answer from their dealer on this yet? What we seem to know so far is the 07 FDI work as described in the manual and the 08 FDI's work more like the 4x2's? Seems all the FDII's work as described.

What I wrote to Jeep:

Chris, Please don't pester my dealer with this. We have already been
over
this with them. Have you found what is causing these Patriots nation
wide
to not acknowledge ESP full OFF? I simply want my vehicle to function
exactly as the manual describes. Is that too much to ask? I will get
increasingly angry as next winter gets closer if this is not resolved.

What they said to me:

Dear Todd:

Thank you for contacting the Chrysler Customer Assistance Center.

If the issue is not resolved by the dealer and you change your mind,
please let us know and we will contact them.

Thanks again for your email.

Sincerely,

Chris
Customer Service Representative
Chrysler Customer Assistance Center :doh:

ROUND 2: What I said to them:

Chris,
I have not changed my mind. Do you (Chrysler Jeep) have a solution to my (and many other Patriot owners) ESP OFF problem that you can discuss with mechanics at my dealer to fix this malfunction? If so, yes, by all means, call them and let them know! They will be the only dealership on Earth that will be able to fix the vexing Patriot ESP problem!

So I ask again, has a solution to this problem been developed at a corporate or manufacturing level? Did you issue a service bulletin?

DEALERS DO NOT KNOW HOW TO FIX THIS YET!!!!They are waiting for service information from Jeep.

Once again. Don't bother my dealer until you have a NEW service bulletin on this topic to share with them.

This is another installment in my ongoing service request to have my Patriot actually say "ESP OFF". I think I might have made a little impact this time. Up until now I think they had dismissed it as some idiot that can't figure out his car. At least they claim they are going to bump it up to the "dealer and business center". I wish I knew if that was really getting somewhere or not. Here is the copy of my interactions:

What I wrote to them (Jeep)

Chris, I have not changed my mind. Do you (Chrysler Jeep) have a
solution to my (and many other Patriot owners) ESP OFF problem that you can discuss with mechanics at my dealer to fix this malfunction? If so, yes, by all means, call them and let them know! They will be the only dealership on Earth that will be able to fix the vexing Patriot ESP problem! So I ask again, has a solution to this problem been developed at a corporate or manufacturing level? Did you issue a service bulletin? DEALERS DO NOT KNOW HOW TO FIX THIS YET!!!!They are waiting for service information
from Jeep. Once again. Don't bother my dealer until you have a NEW service bulletin on this topic to share with them.


What they wrote back


Dear Todd,

Thank you for contacting the Chrysler Customer Assistance Center.

I forwarded the file to the dealer and business center for further
investigation.

Thanks again for your email.

Sincerely,

Chris

Customer Service Representative
Chrysler Customer Assistance Center

I guess I'll just have to wait to see if I hear from anybody else.

No. I have not had any Flashes. (hot, cold, back, or otherwise :) ) Although we may be on to something. If a car were originally programmed with the wrong model programming, say a 4x4 programmed with 4x2 software, that might explain what is going on here. I'll quiz my dealer a little more about that possibility it next week.

Say!? How many of you who have cars that do not show the "ESP OFF" in the display had your cars built during the February shut down? I know mine sat for over a week partly finished. Perhaps programming of vehicles got goofed up somehow because the flow of vehicles was interupted.

After reporting problem to my dealer and telling him we're a bunch of Pats like that, he said he would check it out.

I phoned today and talked with the workshop technician. He says there is a bulletin about this and that the computer needs to be flashed. Something like wrong programming of esp mode. Told me to get an appointment, half an hour job. Wife works with Patriot on week days, dealer is 125 km away from home. Don't know when I'll be able to go.

Seems we're on the right track...really anxious to have this done and see if it works. Will let you guys know. If someone has this done in the mean time please post results here.

After reporting problem to my dealer and telling him we're a bunch of Pats like that, he said he would check it out.

I phoned today and talked with the workshop technician. He says there is a bulletin about this and that the computer needs to be flashed. Something like wrong programming of esp mode. Told me to get an appointment, half an hour job. Wife works with Patriot on week days, dealer is 125 km away from home. Don't know when I'll be able to go.

Seems we're on the right track...really anxious to have this done and see if it works. Will let you guys know. If someone has this done in the mean time please post results here.

Is there a bulletin reference number?

I have a 07 Pat with FD1 and a 5 spd. Mine does show off. Just pushing the putton once will turn on the partial on mode, to get to full off mode I have to come to a complete stop and hold the button for at least 10 seconds, the chime will then ring and the odo will say ESP OFF.

Is there a bulletin reference number?

Phoned back, was told bulletin reference number is not available just like that. Will show up when computer is connected for flash operation depending on VIN and date built.

http://www.wkjeeps.com/misc/Patriot/TSB/tsb_0500507.pdf

This is a TSB from Milous' list that concerns esp for 2008 Patriot date 12-19-07. Problem is different yet it indicates the procedure. So I guess reprogramming and new software are the way to follow for the 3 mode esp function.

I'm not holding my breath for a fix....... here is another thread on the issue.
http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6627
Email Chrysler Canada and complain about it, they sent me a $50 mopar coupon for complaining :)

My recommendation would be to give them the opportunity to fix. If they cannot follow the Lemon Law route (CAMVAP in Canada). You would really have an iron clad case.

As pointed out fully disabling ESP does leave certain features on, however it disables the key ones that would interfere with you having a true 4x4 (4WD). In addition it is all captured in the manual so no dodging how it should work irregardless of which 4x4 (4WD) model you have.

If they cannot get your Patriot to function as designed they would have to buy it back or provide a new one.

Exactly Homac,

I think discussion on the matter is turning in circle. Who went to the dealer for a flash concerning this issue? We're all playing a guessing game as what is the problem or solution. Be sure once I go to the dealer for this fix, I'll be like a pitbull if they don't come up with a solution. But like Homac says « give the guy a chance»

Got a phone call from my dealer's technician this morning. He took on him to check the Pats in the yard. It seems Patritos with automatic transmissions don't have this problem so he took a manual transmission Patriot on the lot no ESP OFF mode working, flashed the computer and messed up the ABS system. Told me not to come for a flash...you bet I won't!!!

Her says Wranglers 2007 had this problem, took a year before a TSB was out.

So guys with no ESP OFF mode, how could we constitute a pressure group on Chrysler?
I think we need a list of owners with this problem and maybe a lawyer to send a legal notice? Does anyone know how we could do this?

Well, summer is half over. Now I begin to wonder if my ESP OFF is functioning or not. I know that the little car with the squiggles lights up, both for ESP OFF and ESP Full OFF, but since the programming is screwed up for the chime and the display of the words, is the function of the system screwed up too? I could live with the display being wrong, but the different drive functions needs to work. Ilifted my car up off the ground and tried to do some tests, but I couldn't figuring anything out from that. Heck, the rear wheels keep rotating in 4x2 mode, and strong enough that you can't just put your foot against it an make it stop. I suppose, it detected "wheel slippage" from my attempt to slow one wheel down, or from the fact the rear wheels were not rolling over a surface at the same speed as the front wheels.

I wish the display on the dash was more like the description of the system on the Jeep web site. http://www.jeep.com/en/4x4/how_systems_work/freedom_drive/ showing where power is actually going and when. Obviously if could not be as involved at the video, but 4 tires that could be green, orange or red, from a back lit LED would be oh so cool!

Got a phone call from my dealer's technician this morning. He took on him to check the Pats in the yard. It seems Patritos with automatic transmissions don't have this problem so he took a manual transmission Patriot on the lot no ESP OFF mode working, flashed the computer and messed up the ABS system. Told me not to come for a flash...you bet I won't!!!

Her says Wranglers 2007 had this problem, took a year before a TSB was out.

So guys with no ESP OFF mode, how could we constitute a pressure group on Chrysler?
I think we need a list of owners with this problem and maybe a lawyer to send a legal notice? Does anyone know how we could do this?

FD1 CVT has the same issue, that's what my wife drives and it doesn't work in her's either.

I thought the manual was really clear and unusually specific (for a car manual, really).

Needless to say, with my 4x2, I only have the two modes, which work like they're supposed to: On and Partial Off, where after a certain *speed* (is that what it was) it kicks back on to prevent too much wheel spin.

I'm just stoked to see Avg 27.1 MPG on his speedometer!!!

Just a question of psycology more than anything. Why do those that think/know they have this issue care? Has there been a time yet they needed that unavailible mode? Has there been an off-road situation where ESP activated when you wish it did not?

Most people I know, even those with trucks/SUV's, never need to disable ESP. It's always on and when it activates, people usually think it helped them. Off road, you probably don't need to disable ESP unless you are driving rallye style, beaches, sand dunes, or decently maintained dirt/gravel. Winter, there is snow driving, but most people don't drive sideways in the snow and again, when ESP activates think it "helped" them.

If you want some wheel slip (2 for 2WD or 4 for 4WD) on low friction surfaces, partial off works as advertised.

Apt, I agree with what you're saying (I personally will probably never need full off), but I don't think it's a psychological thing at all. Even if the system is functioning correctly, it's not clearly indicating whether it's on, partial on or off as the manual states it should. What would you say if the radio indicator failed to show the station frequency, but it tuned in the channels all the same. Would that be acceptable? Probably not. What if the system is fully off, but not indicated as such, and we need it on to save us from an accident? It could be a real serious safety issue if owners don't know what mode the system is in. Because it does not worked as described, it makes me question what mode it's in.

If they've changed it so that only the FDII models can get full off, then there needs to be an addendum released for the owners manual stating that.

Just a question of psycology more than anything. Why do those that think/know they have this issue care? Has there been a time yet they needed that unavailible mode? Has there been an off-road situation where ESP activated when you wish it did not?

Most people I know, even those with trucks/SUV's, never need to disable ESP. It's always on and when it activates, people usually think it helped them. Off road, you probably don't need to disable ESP unless you are driving rallye style, beaches, sand dunes, or decently maintained dirt/gravel. Winter, there is snow driving, but most people don't drive sideways in the snow and again, when ESP activates think it "helped" them.

If you want some wheel slip (2 for 2WD or 4 for 4WD) on low friction surfaces, partial off works as advertised.

I was a little ticked at first just becasue it doesn't work as advertised.....but after realising the only difference is the ERM on/off between ESP off and partial off, it really doesn't matter to me anymore. It really won't make any difference in any driving condition I will be in with the Pat.....:smiley_thumbs_up:

The difference between radio station not showing and ESP off not showing is almost everyone uses the radio station display every minute the ignition is in run or acc.

I agree there would be an issue if the ESP was realyl off, but not indicated. I do not think that has been confirmed yet. There is the owner's manual discrepency

Personally, I would be pissed if I were told I could disable ESP at least up to 35mph and I could not. I actually do drive under such condiitons when ESP has cut in when I have not wanted it. I just believe I am in the <1% who know and care. For yet another reason, I'm glad I got my 2007. I wonder is FDI Compasses have this issue too.

I won't know if I care until snow comes back. I also want to know if it is just a display problem or a display and drive mode problem.

Todde702, APT, Jeepstr67, I totally agree with your comments or statements. When you buy a product that cost you what a Patriot 4X4 costs anywhere in the world, you're the customer and you're in title and have all the rights to know what is wrong or what has been changed if there is a malfunction. In that perpective Chrysler is acting with the most discusting attitude. We, the customers, are being kept away or rejected once the sale is completed. They couldn't care less... they got our money. *&*% you now! I cannot blame my dealer, he is in the same boat as we are...waiting for an answer.

And yes, even if I don't ever use ESP off, I want it to work as stated. False representation! Do we have a legal ressource for this?

Hi,

I have a Patriot 2008 4x4 North Edition with manual transmission, built on June.

From what I read and understand from the operator manual, we have 6 systems that helps us in some driving conditions (summary):

1.- ABS
Control brakes pressure to avoid wheel lockups.

2.- BAS
Reduce distance braking by putting a optimum pressure (in emergency situation)

3.1.- TCS (engine)
If wheel spin is detected, brake pressure is applied on this wheel and engine power is reduced.

3.2.- TCS (wheels)
If one wheel is spinning faster than the other, a brake is applied and the torque is "transfered" to the other wheel that is not spinning.

4.- ERM
If you turn too fast, enough to lift both wheel, it'll apply the brake of some wheel and engine power may be reduced. Used only in extreme cases.

5.- HDC
Maintains the vehicule speed while descending hills (a fake "engine-braking", but using brakes instead of the engine compression). Used only on off road situations.

6.- ESP
Corrects over-steering or under-steering of the vehicule by using the brake on some wheels.

As you may see, all system are "ABS alike" but adapted for each situation.

Now, the difference between ESP normal, ESP partial off and ESP full off:

ESP normal:
-----------
ABS: on
BAS: on
TCS (engine): on
TCS (wheels): on
ERM: on
HDC: off
ESP: on

ESP partial off:
--------------
ABS: on
BAS: on
TCS (engine): off
TCS (wheels): on
ERM: on
HDC: on only if off road mode and shift lever to L, otherwise, off (only in automatic models)
ESP: off

ESP full off:
--------------
ABS: on
BAS: on
TCS (engine): off
TCS (wheels): on
ERM: off
HDC: off
ESP: off

As you may see, the only difference between "ESP partial off" and "ESP full off" is ERM, the Electronic Roll Mitigation, and I think it's the reason why we can't have a ESP full off when we drive above 35 mph, it becomes "ESP Partial off". But, if we go under 35mph, it goes back to "ESP full off".

For HDC (descent control), I don't have it, it's an option in "off road" package.

So, yes, me too, I don't see "ESP OFF" in the odometer. I had to depress to put in "ESP Partial off" and depress again and hold it for about 7 seconds and the squiggle line illuminate. Am I in "ESP full off" ? I don't know and I don't want to test it by turning aggressively on the wet grass or dirt roads, and see if the engine power is reduced and brakes applied, but maybe you can try it and give us some news ;) I'm better at it with my ATV... Hey, it's my first truck, I need pratice ;)

3.1.- TCS (engine)
If wheel spin is detected, engine power is reduced.

3.2.- TCS (wheels)
If one wheel is spinning faster than the other on the same axle, a brake is applied and the torque is "transfered" to the other wheel that is not spinning.


ESP normal:
-----------
ABS: on
BAS: on
TCS (engine): on
TCS (wheels): on
ERM: on
HDC: on, but for only Low and 4x4 Lock
ESP: on

ESP partial off:
--------------
ABS: on
BAS: on
TCS (engine): off
TCS (wheels): on
ERM: on
HDC: on only if off road mode and shift lever to L, otherwise, off (only in automatic models)
ESP: on

ESP full off:
--------------
ABS: on
BAS: on
TCS (engine): off
TCS (wheels): on
ERM: off
HDC: off
ESP: off



Editied for truth and clarification. ESP is on for ESP Partial mode, personally verified.

Thanks for this summary. Still would like ESP full off to function as described.

Not sure where we are going with this other than the need to be able to ESP off if you have any of the Patriot 4WD (4x4) models.

Has anyone with this issue had is resolved, or obtained a new vehicle yet?

Thanks APT for the corrections!


Thanks for this summary. Still would like ESP full off to function as described.

You mean, you want to see "ESP OFF" in the odometer or ESP OFF doesn't work at all (ESP and ERM are still "on" in that mode ?)

Thanks APT for the corrections!

You mean, you want to see "ESP OFF" in the odometer or ESP OFF doesn't work at all (ESP and ERM are still "on" in that mode ?)

That's the thing...I don't know if I "don't" have ESP full off, or I do have it but it is not displayed.

I most likely will not need ESP full off, but it would be nice to know if it is working as it is supposed to...you never know.

That's the thing...I don't know if I "don't" have ESP full off, or I do have it but it is not displayed.

I most likely will not need ESP full off, but it would be nice to know if it is working as it is supposed to...you never know.

Yes, try it on wet grass, dirt road or snow ;)

I deeply understand what you mean, but since the dealer and Chrysler aren't collaborative and/or doesn't know, you can verify it by yourself in the mean time... I'll try it when I'll have some time and keep you updated.

I used the Patriot to pull the root stump of a tall cedar. I used a tow strap wrapped around the stump and hooked to both front tow hooks. In all instances, the Patriot was in Reverse

In normal mode ESP On, no wheels spun and the stump didn't move
In 4WD ESP On, no wheels spun and the stump moved slightly and then stopped, the wheels didn't spin, descent Control was on
In 4WD ESP Partially Off, same as above
In 4WD ESP Totally OFF, same as above

I had expected in normal mode the front wheel might slip and then AWD would kick in -- nothing.

So, I am unsure if my ESP or even my 4WD works for that matter. I *think* I saw a thread somewhere that said, you have to have the Patriot in Neutral prior to switching modes before the modes will take effect. Is this true?

Quasi, you probably just don't have enough torque to pull a stump, or spin any tires before ESP and/or AWD kicks in. You said you were in reverse, so FWD bias and lots of weight up front for pulling up/out thast increases grip from the front tires. Whenever I pull stumps/trees out, I use my pickup in 4x4 low range for the most torque multiplication.

4WD lock can be engaged at any speed.

Well, I got a note back from Jeep again. Now they have gone back to my original encounter with my dealer where we agreed that the chime and the display do not work, but since the car with the skid lines does show up the ESP off might function as stated.

So I turned the table on them this time. I said, you know I will be trusting my lift to this vehicle in the winter on icy roads. Are you sure the ESP is on when it should be? You know the malfunctioning display in the off mode could be a symptom of a bigger problem with the drive system. Are you willing to risk liability for believing the system is working properly even though some parts of it clearly do not function as designed?

I guess we will see if the use of the word "liability" gets any results.

I have had reason to use the esp all the way off. Mine does show "off" on the dash board" so I'm assuming that it really is off. I know that it would be unacceptable to me because of the driving that I do if it didn't work or if I wasn't able to see on the dashboard which mode it was in. When you are in a situation that you need it off you usually don't have time to play with it and guess just what the car will do.:doh:

Hi,

I wrote to Chrysler CANADA, and here's their reply:

Dear [REMOVED]:

Thank you for your email of July 15th, 2008 regarding the ESP on your
2008 Jeep Patriot.

Please be advised that Chrysler Canada is aware that the ESP DISABLE
does not show up on the cluster on the 2008 model. If you hold down the
ESP button for 5 seconds, ESP will disable as intended and the light
with "squiggly" lines lamp will be lit solid, but the words "ESP
DISABLED" will not appear on the odometer.

We apologizes for any confusion this has caused. Thank you for allowing
us the opportunity to review this matter with you.

NOTE: Please do not use the 'Reply' function of your email. If you have
a need to respond to this, please visit us at our reply form (link
provided below). Our system is NOT able to accept any emails at this
address.

For any future communications related to this email, please refer to the
following information:
EFERENCE NUMBER: [REMOVED]
REPLY LINK: [REMOVED]

Sincerely,

[REMOVED]

Customer Service Manager
Chrysler Canada Inc. Customer Assistance Center


I asked them if they will reflash the computer so I can see ESP OFF on the odometer or they will provide a addendum.

Same as the reply I got from them.
Dear Mr. Hitzy:

Thank you for your email of May 28th, 2008.

We have reviewed your file with our Technical Services Support Group.
According to our resources, if you press and hold the ESP button in your
2008 Jeep Patriot for 5 seconds, the ESP will disable as intended and
the "car with squiggly lines" lamp will be lit solid, but the words "ESP
DISABLED" will not appear in the odometer. Regrettably, your vehicle
model was not equipped with the emblem "ESP DISABLED" as indicated in
your vehicle's owner's manual.

We have mailed you a $50.00 Mopar coupon that can be used towards the
purchase of Mopar accessories that are specifically designed to fit your
vehicle. To view a list of available accessories, please visit the
Parts department of Ottawa Chrysler Jeep during your next maintenance
visit.

May we take this opportunity to thank you for your Chrysler purchase.
We certainly hope you enjoy your vehicle for many years to come.

I don't really beleive Chrysler on this......I'll verify it in the winter :)

«Regrettably, your vehicle model was not equipped with the emblem "ESP DISABLED" as indicated in your vehicle's owner's manual.»

Regrettably isn't acceptable and is not a proper answer. I would not accept this coupon as it would show my acceptance of compromise.

So why don't they put one in (ESP OFF cluster) with the chime also?

How come some get a $50 coupon and others don't? That is hardly fair?

How come some get a $50 coupon and others don't? That is hardly fair?

Cause I'm cool that's why.... :rockon:
Probably the way I worded my email.....I wasn't very polite. :censored:

wow.... that answer from chrysler is just... ignorant!

Everyone that has an issue with this should get together and contact a legal office or the better business bureu to see what can be done because clearly chrysler is not too worried about solving the problem.

The way i see it, if there are identicle vehicles out there that this does work on, and yours doesnt, then its a problem tha needs to be fixed and not just shrugged off as "your vehicle is not equipped with this".

Especially since the users manual says "ALL 4x4 models" function by displaying ESP OFF with a chime. I get no chime, no display and no confidence that it is in full off or partial off mode. Guess for my safety sake I best just leave it on ALL the time.

Hi,

Got response:

Dear [REMOVED]:

Thank you for your email reply of July 17th, 2008.

Please be advised that Chrysler Canada is currently working on a
solution and is planning on implementing this feature on the 2009 model.
At this time, however, there are no plans to change this on current
models.

Thank you for allowing us to review this matter with you.

Hi,

I wrote to Chrysler CANADA, and here's their reply:



I asked them if they will reflash the computer so I can see ESP OFF on the odometer or they will provide a addendum.

from another thread concerning this matter:

Got a phone call from my dealer's technician this morning. He took on him to check the Pats in the yard. It seems Patriots with automatic transmissions don't have this problem (he says, but they do from owners on this site affirmation) so he took a manual transmission Patriot on the lot no ESP OFF mode working, flashed the computer and messed up the ABS system. Told me not to come for a flash...you bet I won't!!!

Her says Wranglers 2007 had this problem, took a year before a TSB was out.

So guys with no ESP OFF mode in dash cluster, how could we constitute a pressure group on Chrysler? I think we need a list of owners with this problem

I think we are wasting our time with Chrysler Canada.

Come on folks.....

I agree, it is a complete waste of time to send emails to Chrysler. As the instruction manual is very clear and all 4WD(4x4) models need to be able to fully disable ESP they have to fix it.

Take it to your dealer, if they do not fix it simply follow the lemon law process (CAMVAP in Canada).

:dead_horse:

Come on folks.....

I agree, it is a complete waste of time to send emails to Chrysler. As the instruction manual is very clear and all 4WD(4x4) models need to be able to fully disable ESP they have to fix it.

Take it to your dealer, if they do not fix it simply follow the lemon law process (CAMVAP in Canada).

:dead_horse:

If you read carefully the response that I got from Chrysler, it works even if the ESP OFF doesn't show in the odometer...

Unless someone confirmed that it doesn't work on 2008 models (I don't talk about the showing of ESP OFF but that the ESP is really off according to the manual) ?

Can we trust them? They wouldn't say the drive functions are working correctly and the display is just wrong to quiet us. Would they?

Can we trust them? They wouldn't say the drive functions are working correctly and the display is just wrong to quiet us. Would they?

I spoke with my friend, he has a TJ trail rated with big tires and all. We'll do some experience on sand once I'm back from vacation. We'll videotape it and I'll post here to confirm if ESP, when in mode full off, is really off or not.

Can someone with a working esp off take a photo of the light in the dash when it says off. I want to take my jeep to the dealer and make them fix it.

Can someone with a working esp off take a photo of the light in the dash when it says off. I want to take my jeep to the dealer and make them fix it.

I did a printscreen ;)

There you go!

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4972/espdw7.jpg

Thanks for doing that so fast! But I get that display light when I press the esp switch. Shouldn't there be a light that comes on saying "esp off" (for holding it more than 5 seconds) for those of you with that working? could you take a photo of that?

oops, I see it now! sorry. Do you have to push the trip button to see that messege?

Someone posted a video on this and I cannot find it, so I took my own. Sorry for the quality, as it was taken with my phone and converted to WMV.

Right Click - Save as (http://home.comcast.net/~APT_Lexus/VID%2000012.3GP.WMV)

Start engine, press ESP switch, let go for Partial ESP mode.
Hold ESP button which turns ESP back of for 5 seconds while I'm holding the button, then goes to ESP Off.

Then I re-enabled ESP, then held it for 5secodns that goes ESP Partial, then off. I cycled through the odo/temp and the ESPoff message goes away, even though it is still off.

I just want to know if, some of uou went to your dealer and get it fix. Cause I've just been aware of this problem and I would like to get it fix before the winter.

It seems to be a well known problem for Chrysley, so why they did not make a recal campaign?

Thanks for your information.

There is a TSB for that, go to your dealer and ask for performing tsb_0500309.

You can search this site for this TSB, and you'll find it in PDF.

Personnaly, I printed out the PDF file and got to my dealer. They looked at the paper, asked me where I got it (I answered: none of your business) and then they told me to bring in the jeep, they'll do it.

After that, the button works as described in the manual. But, I don't think it works well (ESP not really off, at least for me). See this post:http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?p=181913 for the details.

Merci!

And why do you think that your ESP is not completly off??

De rien!

It's because I got stuck on a beach and was not able to make any tire spin at all, in esp off, partial off or on modes, 4x4 locked or not. The jeep was applying brakes and the engine was dying. Read the entire thread for the details.

There is no TSB for that.

Honestly, I would turn off the engine for a minute, start is up again, and go into ESP partial to see if you get out. Next, pull fuse #35 like Tyler did here (http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26256).

There is no TSB for that.

Honestly, I would turn off the engine for a minute, start is up again, and go into ESP partial to see if you get out. Next, pull fuse #35 like Tyler did here (http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26256).

Uhh.. Yes? Look here: http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5794

The first one at the top is the TSB 0500309, is for this topic:
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
Some customers may notice that they are unable to invoke the ESP Off feature. Pressing
and holding the ESP button for five seconds the customer will not see the “ESP OFF”
verbiage displayed in the Electronic Vehicle Information Center (EVIC) and no “Car Icon”
light that is on all the time in the cluster, as described in the Owners' Manual.

That means you can be in ESP partial off, but not full off. Go to your dealer making them reprogram ESP following the instructions in this tsb, and it might help you getting the full off option. Then, you may have what you're searching for. Keep us posted on your results!

My ESP full off has functioned fine ever since I bought it however it takes longer than 5 seconds to turn it off,

Don't forget the brakes are still active with esp full off in the form of the BLD

That's the TSB for the ESP mode and driver notification. It has nothing to do with the system getting stuck applying pressure to some of the wheels preventing it from moving at all.

ESP partial mode mode is all anyone needs to allow wheels to spin, such as the beach condition you noted. ESP full off is only for limiting the oversteer/understeer when the vehicle is moving at least 10mph and less than 35mph. It won't have any impact on the full off problem. If your dash says "esp off" after you hold the button for 5-8 seconds, you TSB 0500309 does not apply.

As Tyler said, the brakes will still apply if the wheels across an axle are spinning at different speeds. But they won't apply until the wheels start spinning in the first place, which is not the issue your and at least one other claim to have had.