How does it ride?

I haven't yet but have taken it on some loose gravel and sand roads which gives me a good idea of what to expect in snow. It should be very stable side-to-side with minimal fishtailing but with 3500# behind it, it'll take a good bit to get it stopped. Keep it slow and steady and it should be a nice snow rig.

The 2008 CVT's Autostick will help a lot in snow as you'll be able to take more advantage of predictable engine braking.

How about a manual in the snow? Which would fare better/easier?

Thanks!

I have driven fwd cars in the snow for 20+ years. The weight of the Pat might make it snowplow a bit. I think the clearance will compensate for that though.

We get frequent chinooks where the temperature rises and the snow turns to ice. That's a good enough reason for me never to drive an auto transmission. It's not an uncommon site here to see people stopped at red lights with a rear wheel spinning.

With autostick, you should be able to "click left" into 2nd gear, go into 4WD Lock , turn ESP fully off, and do pretty good in snow. That's my plan anyhow. I'll have to wait until December or January to test that out, though.

My sisters Compass [4x2 CTV] does great in the snow. I'd imagine that the Patroit is equally adapt at negotiating any "slippery" slope with the TC turned on and a driver with some ability to feather the gas pedal.

My Patriot North 4wd CVT came equipped with Goodyear all season mud and snow tires. I have been driving in Quebec and Ontario for almost 40 years. We get alot of ice and alot of snow. The patriot has all the electronic braking and driving assistance to help in these driving situations. HOWEVER, it's the driver who makes his/herself safe in adverse conditions. Always antisipate what the other drivers are doing. Drive slow and sleady. Watch ahead of you for braking lights or slow moving cars. Keep your distance. If the snow is really heavy and you are in a white out condition get off the road at the next service station. I have noticed that people who drive SUV's generally are the ones who pass you at a high speed thinking it is safe because the have 4WD. It is not safe! Don't pass if you are not sure it is safe. Better to be behind a slow driver at a good distance then to meet someone head on and have to accelerate and put everyone in danger. My only winter accident was when I was 17 and had to take the snowbank because the car in front of me had not cleared his back lights of snow. And yes make sure all your windows and lights and free of ice and snow. Hopes this helps.

And yes make sure all your windows and lights and free of ice and snow. Hopes this helps.

Many times i see people who just clear a spot enough to see through,
always say to myself what an idiot,
take the few minutes to clear your car of snow/ice properly,
makes it safer for everyone,

also SUV's with 4x4 are great for accelerating in ice and snow,
but the extra weight makes it even more hazardous to stop,

i try to average 65-70 during normal driving,
the pat being so smooth, regularly catch myself doing 80 without realizing,
Many other SUV's have large engines and can do +80 easily,
but just because they can do such doesnt mean they should

That's good advice Mike, a lot of people around my parts should read your last post, but none of them will, they'll just keep plowing on in their 4x4 until they run it into the median while they're sipping on there $4 latte in the middle of a blizzard. "Denver,CO"

Mike is right.
The few times I've drove in snow and ice and I've drove slow.

Excellent ideas on driving there.
Something I have done with every vehicle I've ever owned (learned this from my Dad), is to take it out on the first "real" snow-where driving conditions are bad-and find a huge empty parking lot. (as in TONS of room) I then get some speed going and slam on the brakes to see how it will react. I also, intentionally make it go into a spin (remember, HUGE open area here) so see if I can get out of it or have to ride it out. I always try to know the vehicles limitations *before* I have to find out the hard way.
Our Patriot will be no different. As soon as we get a good snow, I'll go to an open lot and see how she reacts to adverse maneuvers. Not everyone has the opportunity to do that, but it really does help out when you need it.:smiley_thumbs_up:
Randy

Excellent ideas on driving there.
Something I have done with every vehicle I've ever owned (learned this from my Dad), is to take it out on the first "real" snow-where driving conditions are bad-and find a huge empty parking lot. (as in TONS of room) I then get some speed going and slam on the brakes to see how it will react. I also, intentionally make it go into a spin (remember, HUGE open area here) so see if I can get out of it or have to ride it out. I always try to know the vehicles limitations *before* I have to find out the hard way.
Our Patriot will be no different. As soon as we get a good snow, I'll go to an open lot and see how she reacts to adverse maneuvers. Not everyone has the opportunity to do that, but it really does help out when you need it.:smiley_thumbs_up:
Randy

i tend to do the same thing,
not just in snow,
but also on wet, i will sometimes break hard , and see where i lose traction,
also good to know how it feels when you do lose traction, so its not a surprise when it happens in real world situation

What I find to be one of the most important parts to clean of snow is the roof (and nobody does). They get driving and all that snow blows off and blinds everyone behind them. Really irritating...

and brush off the entire hood and front grill, as the snow has a tendency to fly up and into your view at the time you least expect it...

i usually parking-lot test after getting a new vehicle and it is good to get a feel for both normal and emergency handling situations, especially 'oops' things like going too fast into a curve or having to stop quickly for a yellow light.

in minnesota it was easy as you could test all that on open farm roads, worst thing that would happen was that you'd end up in a cornfield (they're on road level in a lot of spots with no ditchess) and just pull back onto the road.

As this will be my first winter driving an automatic AND a 4X4, I need to ask some advice...

The city streets of Toronto will vary from bare to snow-covered during my commute. When snow falls (or there is a rainfall for that matter), do I place the Pat in 4WD? I was told that you mustn't keep a Jeep in 4WD all the time because doing so places long term pressure on the transfer case.

I realize the Pat is a different setup. I understand the 4X4 is just a FWD until you pull the little lever. Is this true? And if you pull the lever, the best you get is a 60/40 drive split from front to rear. Is this true? I am just so used to a FWD with a manny tranny, I just want to know what I am doing when the snow fluffies fly.

Basically, if the roads are wet and slippery, do I switch in 4WD or is that really reserved for when I didn't have the car in 4WD and have slid off the road that NOW I need the 4WD to get back onto the slippery road?

Just for the record, I have driven 4200+km and my Patriot has never seen wet roads yet. Hell, I don't even know if the 4WD lever even works!

As this will be my first winter driving an automatic AND a 4X4, I need to ask some advice...

The city streets of Toronto will vary from bare to snow-covered during my commute. When snow falls (or there is a rainfall for that matter), do I place the Pat in 4WD? I was told that you mustn't keep a Jeep in 4WD all the time because doing so places long term pressure on the transfer case.

I realize the Pat is a different setup. I understand the 4X4 is just a FWD until you pull the little lever. Is this true? And if you pull the lever, the best you get is a 60/40 drive split from front to rear. Is this true? I am just so used to a FWD with a manny tranny, I just want to know what I am doing when the snow fluffies fly.

Basically, if the roads are wet and slippery, do I switch in 4WD or is that really reserved for when I didn't have the car in 4WD and have slid off the road that NOW I need the 4WD to get back onto the slippery road?

Just for the record, I have driven 4200+km and my Patriot has never seen wet roads yet. Hell, I don't even know if the 4WD lever even works!


First there is a difference of 4x4 low, and 4x4 hi,
flip the lever to engage 4x4 hi for rain or snow,
can use it in 4x4 hi up to highway speeds
as a rule i try not to exceed 55 in 4x4,
if you can do +55mph generally you dont need 4x4 hi

if trying to get through deep snow or out of a ditch, can use 4x4 lo,
4x4 lo is basically flipping the 4x4 switch and shifting down to L
which is where the low crawl ratio comes in,
this is used to get out of through tough situations, such as your ditch,
unless your offroading or didnt shovel your driveway, will rarely have a need for 4x4 lo
top speed for 4x4 lo is roughly 30mph,
others can correct me on top speed, as these are estimates off the top of my head

i try to average 65-70 during normal driving,
the pat being so smooth, regularly catch myself doing 80 without realizing,
Many other SUV's have large engines and can do +80 easily,
but just because they can do such doesnt mean they should




I run 75-90 back and forth to work in a Dodge Neon. You don't need a V8 to go fast.

Terasec:

Thanks for 4X4 tips. You are very correct to suggest not taking a 4X4 over 55. If you are even safely able to do so, you probably don't have the inclement condition that warrants 4X4 in the first place.

quasimodem51, pardon my quasi-laziness. I do not nor will I ever have a CVT FDII (my preference) I recall reading that the Patriots are full time 4wd, can't cite the source, but all corners get 25% power until you do pull up on the chrome t-handle. At that point the rear does receive 60% output while the front gets the remaining 40%. But with your CVT you only need it for "extreme" conditions. Whereas with my manual tranny FDI it is recommended that I engage the lever in "deep snow" only since my options are limited. Sooooo under wet and snowy conditions with your CVT, FDII, ESP, and OS handles you should not need to engage your lever. But it is your Patriot and you have a lot of northern winter driving in general. I do not foresee you having problems especially since you guys have a low gear for crawling.

I'd like to add one thing about driving on snow...Just because you have 4WD, the laws of inertia have not been repealed. I think all those TV ads showing All Wheel Drive or Four Wheel Drive cars pounding at high speed through snow or ripping along mountain roads are really doing a disservice to the public. That's a sure way to find yourself laying on the bottom of a canyon or buried in a snow drift.

My Subaru Outback was an absolute gem on snowy roads, but I drove carefully and stayed at the proper speed for the conditions. I also gave myself plenty of distance from the guy in front so I had time to react.

If you have a big, high hunk of metal going too fast in snow and get into a skid, that big high hunk of metal is going to want to go straight, no matter what you do! I see so many SUV jerks tailgating in snow or going too fast that they make a sub-class all to themselves.

I really like the Patriot and I think it will also be an excellent car for running in snow, but I'll still drive it with caution in bad conditions. (50 years of driving and no accidents yet, except for that damn deer!):smiley_thumbs_up:

i try to average 65-70 during normal driving,
the pat being so smooth, regularly catch myself doing 80 without realizing,
Many other SUV's have large engines and can do +80 easily,
but just because they can do such doesnt mean they should




I run 75-90 back and forth to work in a Dodge Neon. You don't need a V8 to go fast.

200K miles on it and still going
have a 98 RT,
little thing zips

brndnlee2074:

Hmmm, I will have to do more reading. I coulda swored I was FWD until I asked (the little lever thingie) or, hmm, perhaps the ESP decided otherwise. I got the FDII & trail rating for its goodies but I hear ya. I guess I am just so risk adverse that I want just about every risk mitigated as much as possible - no matter where we are, we are goin' home. :)

johnda:

Fer sure, fer sure. I never attempt to *peel out* in bad weather conditions. Safe and sane only. In Toronto, the drivers are crazier with each passing year. And, the new Canadians driving in snow for the first time? That is just darn right scary. I find I need the traction to avoid the dude who's spinning out in front of me.

[QUOTE=quasimodem51;28283]brndnlee2074:

Hmmm, I will have to do more reading. I coulda swored I was FWD until I asked (the little lever thingie) or, hmm, perhaps the ESP decided otherwise. I got the FDII & trail rating for its goodies but I hear ya. I guess I am just so risk adverse that I want just about every risk mitigated as much as possible - no matter where we are, we are goin' home. :)

I hear you loud and clear. :smiley_thumbs_up:

Earlier this week I received a folder with a brochure which contained a free oil change coupon, and $25.00 rebate form for Mopar parts form my dealership. Anyhoo, on the third page of this brochure it has a chart that recommends shifter position under varying conditions and for your specific FDII it states verbatim:
Dry Pavement - 4Active;Full-Time
Wet Pavement, Gravel or Snow - 4Active;Full-Time
Deep Snow - 4WD LOCK
Severe Conditions - 4WD LOCK

Sorry if I got the info mixed up earlier. Goin' home is always my goal at the start of each day. :banana:

Just to clarify:

If you have a 4x4 patriot, you do not need to use the 4x4 lever to engage the 4x4 system. It's fully automatic

True enough the Patriot will operate in FWD mode when the conditions permit (cruising, dry roads, etc.) but with the 4x4 system, it will automatically send up to 60% of the power to the rear wheels to aid in (driving in rain, snow and some dirt or off road conditions or even for high speed starts.) So driving down a snowy or icy road, the computer will determine which wheel has the most traction and some power will be sent there. This system will work really great in the snow and ice and dry roads of a norther winter.

You shouldn't drive with the 4x4 level engaged on dry pavement. With the tires locked and no loose earth underneath to slip, you can bind up the driveline pretty good and get some horrible hopping. The only time you should use the 4x4 lock lever is when the ground below you can slip. Like a dirt road or a 100% snow covered road.


Hope this helps...

Quasi,

You might want to rethink the whole drive around in 4wd thing. I too am from Toronto and in the winter, 90% of the time that you will need the 4wd on is when traversing side streets or right after a snow fall and the plows haven't gotten out yet. I would suggest that anyone that drives a 4wd only use it when absolutely necessary. Especially if the 2wd is fwd. The general idea should be to only turn on 4wd when 2wd won't get the job done.

If you are concerned about slipping on wet roads the first thing that you should be doing is slowing down to meet the conditions. That should be common sense to anyone who drives (even though quite often forgotten).

When you get familiar with how your Patty drives in different conditions, you will learn when you will and will not need 4wd. You really shouldn't need it in the rain since the traction is limited to the speed and lateral forces you put on the vehicle. For anyone who might not quite get what I am saying, if you are going to fast and need to swerve, you are likely to lose control, skid, spin, or roll the vehicle. Also, if you need to slam on the brakes, you take the risk of hydroplaning which could result in any of the above too.

In winter driving, 4wd will help you get out of that parking spot or driveway that's been plowed in. That being said, please keep in mind that I means to a reasonable level. I would never suggest that you attempt to drive though a 2ft pile of snow that the plow just left at the end of the driveway. As fun as we all might think that it is, you risk damaging your vehicle. It will also help you navigate the roads that have less than ideal conditions.

Again, it's all about learning the vehicle. You might also find that you will switch back and forth between 2wd and 4wd depending on how the road conditions are. If you take it easy from the start, you'll arrive in good shape.

Remember, 4wd is not going to keep you on the road any better than 2wd if your going too fast!

So after 24 replies, the original question still stands unanswered.(and pretty much ignored)

Has anyone driven a 4x2 CVT in the snow yet?
And if so, how has it done?

I drove a 2WD compass on snow and ice covered hill, streets, and parking lot.

It did great!

http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=623

i had a fwd chevy lumina and drove it in the snow and i loved it, slam down on the pedal and let that big ole v6 muscle around...i miss that car, the only auto car i knew that could peel wheels in drive, didnt have to neutral bomb it

My Patriot North 4wd CVT came equipped with Goodyear all season mud and snow tires. I have been driving in Quebec and Ontario for almost 40 years. We get alot of ice and alot of snow. The patriot has all the electronic braking and driving assistance to help in these driving situations. HOWEVER, it's the driver who makes his/herself safe in adverse conditions. Always antisipate what the other drivers are doing. Drive slow and sleady. Watch ahead of you for braking lights or slow moving cars. Keep your distance. If the snow is really heavy and you are in a white out condition get off the road at the next service station. I have noticed that people who drive SUV's generally are the ones who pass you at a high speed thinking it is safe because the have 4WD. It is not safe! Don't pass if you are not sure it is safe. Better to be behind a slow driver at a good distance then to meet someone head on and have to accelerate and put everyone in danger. My only winter accident was when I was 17 and had to take the snowbank because the car in front of me had not cleared his back lights of snow. And yes make sure all your windows and lights and free of ice and snow. Hopes this helps.
Well said. Here in the Toronto area tow truck drivers consider the SUV their meal ticket. All they need is a little snow and some ice and business is booming. What ever happened to common sense?

I got my Pat last March...and was lucky enough to get a snowstorm two weeks later! Only about 8 inches, though.

It handled great, but I have the 4x4 FDI with manual transmission. I did engage the 4WD lever to play with it. It was fine without it, with it active it felt a little more solid.

Note that you can pull the lever at *any* speed...because it's fully electronic, not a manual link. They could have used a button, but I guess the T-handle is sexier. If you're doing anything over about 10 mph when you pull the lever nothing will happen until you slow down below 10 when the ECC engages. As someone else noted you can drive up to 55 mph with it engaged, anything faster and why do you need 4WD?

As for the general topic of driving in snow, I've owned 4x4's my entire life - Jeep Cherokee, Toyota 4Runner, Nissan Pathfinder, Subaru Forester, and not the Patriot. I remember what my father told me when he gave me the Cherokee in 1986..."It's harder to get into trouble on snow or ice with four-wheel drive, but once you're in trouble you're REALLY in trouble!".

So I always drive at a speed reasonable and appropriate for existing road conditions.

Thanks SluggyBiscuit. Your dad was right. When I got my first FWD car, I was told something similar. It takes a lot to go into a skid with a FWD. but when you do skid, you skid.

As far as the "active" 4WD goes (by "active" I mean it'll engage automatically when traction is lost), are there any indicators aside from physically feeling the rear wheels gain more traction, to alert you that you are being powered by all four wheels?

Does the 4WD light turn on in the dash when it does this, or is that only for 4WD lock? I'm just curious about all these things because I'm anxious for the first snowfall so I can drive out to an empty parking lot and screw around with the Patriot in the snow. :)

There are a set of lights that come on, depending on the model. I have FDII and when I have esp on, and if for example i go over some railroad crossing at more than 20 mph, the indicator light goes on and off indicating that it is being used. I hope this helps, i am not sure.

<snip> I remember what my father told me when he gave me the Cherokee in 1986..."It's harder to get into trouble on snow or ice with four-wheel drive, but once you're in trouble you're REALLY in trouble!".

Well said. I once was out playing in a big open area with my 1964 Corvair (rear engine) in snow on solid ground (dirt). Except I didn't know that a portion of the area had been plowed. Uh oh. Had to call a tow truck to pull me off the plowed portion. :)

you should be good. I've driven 2wd cars in the snow and only got stuck once.