Please note that this is NOT scientifically rigorous testing, but merely a compilation of observations I've made in my daily drive. There are obvious things you can do to help your MPG that aren't covered here- these are Patriot-specific...

My vehicle is a 2008 2.4L 4x2 CVT.
Tire pressure is 45psi.
Everything else is stock.
Readings are made with a Scangauge II. See below for information on where to get 'em. I'm not in the sales business.


1.) Peak Highway MPG is at 56-58mph.
Average on straight 'n level is ~33mpg. At 65, this drops to 31mpg, and then to ~27 at 75mph. MPG actually drops off (slowly) as you get slower than 56mph.

2.) Drafting off of other vehicles, especially big trucks, offers a BIG bump in MPG.
In ideal conditions (low traffic, high visibility, no road hazards) you may want to consider slowing down and drafting a safe and reasonable distance behind another vehicle, preferably a large truck. At speeds of 55-60mph, I am consistently seeing improvements of +5mpg over 'naked' cruising. At higher speeds of 70-75mph, the benefits decrease to +2-3mpg. Drafting off of smaller vehicles (passenger cars, etc) offers anywhere from a +1-4mpg bump, depending on cruising speed, distance of draft, and size of draft vehicle.

3.) Neutral is preferable over normal CVT operation for long downhill coasts.
I am consistently seeing longer, better MPG coasts while in "N". Engine RPMs are higher when transmission is engaged, and although the ECU cuts most fuel to the engine in coasting situations, it still consumes 0.4gal/hour, and engine braking is noticeable. In "N", the engine consumes the same amount of fuel but rolling resistance is decreased, meaning longer, faster coasts are possible (hence higher MPG). Note that coasting in "N" means you need to be prepared to shift back into "D" when you finish your coast! You can see instantaneous MPGs of up to 200mpg while coasting in "N". As an example, I came down off a mountain pass using a combination of "N" coasting and slow accelerations in "D" and managed almost 50mpg over a 30 mile stretch.

4.) 2008 Autosticks can improve city (low-speed) MPG by shifting manually...sometimes.
For hill climbing, there appears to be little difference between CVT automatic and shifting manually using Autostick. However, on FLAT roads where you're maintaining a constant speed (such as when traffic lights lights are timed at 20 or 25mph), you will see a nice improvement in MPG by using your Autostick. Shifting into "5" as soon as possible after reaching 18 mph will increase MPG on flat roads. Same goes for shifting into "6" at 23mph. Reasoning here is to keep engine RPMs and fuel consumption at lowest possible level. Shift back into "D" at speeds above 40mph, as most efficient highway speed drive gear on CVT is not accessible with Autostick. Also, if you intend to reach highway cruising speeds, a standard acceleration using CVT programming is probably preferable as it gets you to cruising speed quicker.

5.) Air conditioning hurts MPG by a LOT.
At 55mph, MPG dropped by approximately -3mpg (10-12%). At city speeds of 20-25, the decrease was -2mpg (still 10-12%). At a high speed of 75, MPG did not decrease much at all, between -2 and -3MPG, although the percentage drop was still around 10%.

6.) Based on 5., windows DOWN in town, UP on the highway.
Haven't looked at exact numbers yet of windows up/down...but I'd say based on the results above, on a hot day you'll see the slightest MPG impact by driving with AC OFF, windows DOWN in town (where air resistance is least), and with windows UP and AC ON when you're cruising at highway speeds, especially 75+ MPH.

7.) Winter tires KILL mileage.
I ran the stock tires from August '07 to December '08, and put about 32,000 on them. Decided to try some winter tires (studded Hankook iPike 215/70/16) this winter. Huge hit in MPG. I've been averaging about 25.3 this winter versus 27-28 the year prior. Yikes. I'd believe that's primarily because of the increased rolling resistance of the studded, more aggressive tire.


Updated 03/22/09

First observation... I think there's a decent city MPG bump available for those of us with 2008 Autosticks.

The ECU & CVT are programmed to keep the revs up in city driving to give a balance between economy and available torque.

However, in some quick experimenting this afternoon on a long straight stretch, I found that by Autostick-ing into "5th" at ~22-23 mph meant--

ECU - 1700 rpm, ~26mpg
"5th" - 1250 rpm, ~34mpg

And into "5th" and "6th" at 28-29mph--

ECU - 1750 rpm, ~28mpg
"5th" - 1600 rpm, ~32mpg
"6th" - 1300 rpm, ~36mpg

The automatic lockout of the Autostick (won't let you shift into a 'gear'/speed combo that will lug or race the engine) prevents me from trying 6th at ~22mph... I think this feature will help reduce potential for wear or trouble in the long term...

If you have any theories or questions, please feel free to post and I'll be happy to test them out as time and road conditions allow (no, I'm not going to test the difference in MPG between 100 and 120mph :D )

Thanks mitakuuluu, for doing all that experimentation. The information is very helpful.

Did a 50 mile run on the freeway this evening (needed to drop something off with a friend in the next town over) and made a couple more observations....

Cruising alone on a straight stretch, the sweet spot was 56-58mph, with a an average MPG of 32.5.

At 65, MPG was around 29, still not bad. 65 is our speed limit on interstates.

At 70, MPG dropped to 27, and at 75, to 25ish. Didn't go any faster this evening but would expect that it'd drop further...

I was able to pick up a few semis and draft off of them, WOW, the MPG went up QUICKLY... did about a 10 minute cruise at 57mph off of the rear of a semi (about 8-10 car lengths back) and averaged almost exactly 40 MPG. When I got real close I was getting about 43ish, but didn't feel comfortable doing that at night.

I also picked up another semi that was going a bit faster (63mph) and pulled 36 MPG for a couple minutes. NICE! I will definitely hunt for speeding semis on future trips. The almost 7mpg bump really underlines what a wind-resistant brick the Patriot is...

The ScanGauge has an engine timing advance display, and I noticed that it was varying a good bit depending on the way I was driving. Varied from 4 degrees advance all the way up to 14.

All this is very interesting stuff mitakuuluu, a couple of questions for you. How does the scanguage connect to the vehicle? Is it easy to install?

Beyond easy... you plug it into the OBD-II port, which is near the driver's left foot, up in a little wiring compartment near the hood release.

It comes with a 6' cable; I mounted mine with Velcro on the little dash space to the left of the gauges. It's pretty small (like 5"x2"x1") so could go pretty much anywhere.

I put it on in about 30 seconds, read the short manual in about five minutes, spent another five doing the setup (setting engine size, fuel tank capacity, backlighting), and off I went.

http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sctm/v119/203/3/19101534/n19101534_30481654_1548.jpg

Thanks mitakuuluu, so next question is how much did the unit cost and where did you get it from. I think I'm sold on getting one of these for my Patriot.

Amazon.com has them for $159. Same with Ebay.com, just search for Scangauge.

The price isn't bad considering it has a built in OBDII code reader and it can reset the engine light.

That is a great tool. I think I need one.

If you have any theories or questions, please feel free to post and I'll be happy to test them out as time and road conditions allow

Could you test the difference between driving with your hand out the window with palms up compared to palms down? :p ;)


Actually I was just adding a little info about the cool little ScanGuage.
You can also get a mount for your rear view mirror here. (http://www.mgtmotorsports.com/)

BOOOOOOOO !! just tried to order a scanguage from Amazon and they wont ship this product to here in Europe. Have to think of another way of getting this.

BOOOOOOOO !! just tried to order a scanguage from Amazon and they wont ship this product to here in Europe. Have to think of another way of getting this.

Just doing a dry run thru there store, the link I gave above seems to ship worldwide. That is with the mount also tho. ($180)

There are a few places that sell them. If they all fall thru with shipping, let me know. I will get one and send it over to you. We'll figure out payment. :)

Jim

Did a 50 mile run on the freeway this evening (needed to drop something off with a friend in the next town over) and made a couple more observations....

Cruising alone on a straight stretch, the sweet spot was 56-58mph, with a an average MPG of 32.5.

At 65, MPG was around 29, still not bad. 65 is our speed limit on interstates.

At 70, MPG dropped to 27, and at 75, to 25ish. Didn't go any faster this evening but would expect that it'd drop further...

I was able to pick up a few semis and draft off of them, WOW, the MPG went up QUICKLY... did about a 10 minute cruise at 57mph off of the rear of a semi (about 8-10 car lengths back) and averaged almost exactly 40 MPG. When I got real close I was getting about 43ish, but didn't feel comfortable doing that at night.

I also picked up another semi that was going a bit faster (63mph) and pulled 36 MPG for a couple minutes. NICE! I will definitely hunt for speeding semis on future trips. The almost 7mpg bump really underlines what a wind-resistant brick the Patriot is...

The ScanGauge has an engine timing advance display, and I noticed that it was varying a good bit depending on the way I was driving. Varied from 4 degrees advance all the way up to 14.

I assume your comparisons were all on flat terrain, otherwise you've missed contributing factor.

Thanks for posting your findings.

I'm considering a Patriot with the CVT2 or CVT2L. Would the MPG be any different for the CVT2L?

Just doing a dry run thru there store, the link I gave above seems to ship worldwide. That is with the mount also tho. ($180)

There are a few places that sell them. If they all fall thru with shipping, let me know. I will get one and send it over to you. We'll figure out payment. :)

Jim

Very kind of you jim, I'll try your link in a bit and see how that goes. I just tried amazon.com but that was a no go.

thanks again

CVTL2 mileage is about 3 MPG -less- than the CVTL.

Its a combination of the lower gears, added weight of offroad gear - skid plates, bigger alternator.

^ of course I didn't even think about the extras with CVT2l, thanks!

Could someone do me a favour and determine the diameter of the rear view mirror linkage. I'm about to order a Scanguage with rear view mirror mount.

The website suggests the following procedure to find diameter :

"To determine the diameter of your Round rear view mirror linkage, simply hold a nickel up to the linkage. If the Nickel is taller than the linkage, you have the 3/4" Round linkage. If the Nickel is the same height as the linkage, you have the 7/8" Round linkage".

Many thanks in advance :smiley_thumbs_up:

Gosh at first I wasn't bought on it, but now I'm considering getting one.

I've had my patriot now for 997 miles. I tanked it up at a gas station right across from my dealer and have been keeping records since. With 4 fills in the tank my overall average is 33.6mpg. Don't believe me? Here's the numbers.

Total miles: 997
Total gallons: 29.67 (4 fill-ups, 7.42gal, 5.3gal, 8.45gal, 8.5gal)

It's a true mix of miles with everything from stoplights on every corner to open Interstate and everything in between. My daily commute is 16 miles one way and almost 50/50 city and interstate.

Tank by tank it has gone up. First check at second fill came to 26.8mpg. My dealer tells me it might even improve beyond that since it is still collecting data and tuning the valves and injectors. I'll be shocked if it does because I am happy with these numbers.

I have a 08 Sport 4x4 with manual 5spd. If that's the best the CVT can do, I'm jumpin' up and down and soooooo very grateful I got the 5spd! Nothing good ever came from an automagic in my book. I don't care what new tech they used. Nothing beats a clutch for economy.

I bought mine so I could reset the annoying Check Engine Light that comes on randomly on my girlfriend's Jetta, plus of course to play with in the Patriot.

Yes, ben, they were on the closest I could get to a level, straight stretch of freeway.

Could someone do me a favour and determine the diameter of the rear view mirror linkage.

The nickel is taller than the linkage.

Sorry for straying OT mitakuuluu, but you brought up the ScanGuage.. :)

re: Low Gas Mileage

I am optimistically equating my low avg of 20.5 to the fact that I am 98% in town under 50mph in the heat of summer. Would seem to make sense.

Just that the sticker said 24/27 and I would be happy with cracking 22 in town.


Jim

I haven't done any tests yet to verify (it isn't that hot here right now) but I think the Patriot's A/C is death to gas mileage based on a couple of tanks last week. Like in the 15-20% hit range.

Also, the 2008 sticker for the 2.4L 4x2 CVT says 21/25, which IMHO is more realistic for the city side of things. And if you're running 70-75 mph on the freeway, for the highway side too.

I did a bunch of running around town this morning and most 'trips' showed 21-23mpg... a couple instantaneous peaks of 35-40mpg while holding speed but generally in the 25mpg range while going from light to light.

but I think the Patriot's A/C is death to gas mileage based on a couple of tanks last week. Like in the 15-20% hit range.

Feels about right.
I can really feel the drag on the Pat under 25-30 with it on also. Especially when I let off the gas suddenly.


Also, the 2008 sticker for the 2.4L 4x2 CVT says 21/25, which IMHO is more realistic for the city side of things.

Sounds about right.
Aren't window mpg stickers stricter now or some sort?


I did a bunch of running around town this morning and most 'trips' showed 21-23mpg

Yup, seems bought right again according to my experiences.
In another thread I mentioned the hellacious wind noise I get from the air brakes masquerading as window deflectors I have. I wouldn't put it past those as having something to do with my bad mileage also. They can't be doing good things for the aerodynamics.

I bought mine so I could reset the annoying Check Engine Light that comes on randomly on my girlfriend's Jetta,

Do you find yourself needing to work the ScanGuage often while driving?
Since the rear view mirror is so far away I was worried about having to reach it constantly.

Thanks,
Jim

I like where I have it so far, I can play with the buttons with my left hand while seated normally. If you want to change from 'gauge' (set to instantaneous readout of MPG, RPM, MPH, and Throttle Position on mine) to 'trip'/'tank'/'today' mode, then yes, you will want it close by.

I wouldn't put it up under or over the mirror, I think that it'd be too far outside the normal field of view to make it helpful, and an unsafe bend and reach if you wanted to change modes.. the other spot I considered was right on top of the current gauge cluster, but I didn't want it in a spot where it'd be attractive to all the meth-head tweakers roaming this town looking for stuff to steal.

The new 2008 MPG tests have several new components to more accurately reflect real-world conditions, including a high-speed highway (80mph) segment, a cold-start city piece in 20F, and A/C on for both highway and city.

I don't know about your air deflectors... intuitively you'd think that they'd screw with airflow and hurt your MPG a bit... and given the results I saw drafting off the semis last night, the Patriot is affected bigtime by wind resistance... but then again, how much difference would a little air deflector make?

AC should not be any more than a 6% hit on the MPG.

I got one of my best Tanks in July when I was using AC the entire time.

6%? That's a random figure.

Running electrical accessories (e.g., air conditioner) decreases fuel economy. Operating the air conditioner on "Max" can reduce MPG by roughly 5-25% compared to not using it

http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/factors.shtml

. but then again, how much difference would a little air deflector make?

That's what I would hope, but man you should here the noise these things make. There is obviouslty a LOT of wind resistance going on.

I wouldn't put it up under or over the mirror, I think that it'd be too far outside the normal field of view to make it helpful,

Wouldn't reading it be as easy as glancing in the rear view?
Are the letters too small from that distance?
Could you duct tape it up there for a day, give it a shot, and let us know?
:pepper: :)

Thanks,
Jim

where do I get one?

MrSensible - The FuelEconomy.gov numbers for the 4x4 Manual Patriot are 24MPG combined, or 22 City, 27HWY. Is this what your sticker said?

If you are getting 33MPG, you are either driving all highway with no wind or speed changes, or you are just plain lucky!

Are you sure you didn't miss a tank fillup? What do you get on just -one- tank with the Trip Odometer?

The only reason I'm questioning this is, I haven't seen those numbers even from the 4x2 Manual Patriot members, which should be even greater.

However most of them were 2007s. I saw that the 2008's have lower RPM's in 5th gear, so I wonder if they changed the gear ratios.. and a result of better MPG?

I had to go into the office twice today, so figured I'd play with the MPG on the second run.

I drove 'normally' the first trip. It's 4.2 miles, slightly downhill (200ft elevation loss), with several stoplights. Average speed around 20mph, and I can usually time the lights so I only hit one or two. I consider light timing a normal driving practice as I've been doing it for a couple years already.

1a. To office - 24.4 mpg (hit two lights)
1b. Back from office - 23.2 mpg (hit one light)

Overall 8.4 miles, 23.8mpg, average speed 22mph, max 42mph (going downhill)

About twenty minutes later, I went back. Did a couple things to improve MPG, including putting it in neutral on the downhill bits and dropping into '5' or '6' with the Autostick anytime I got above 18 and 24 mph, respectively. Acceleration from a stop with usual CVT gearing until 18 mph.

2a. To office - 29.6 mpg (!!!) (hit two lights)
2b. Back home - 27.8 mpg (hit two lights)

Overall - 28.7 mpg, average speed 19mph, max 48mph (coasting in 'N' down a hill)

Pretty awesome gain by doing a couple little things :D

...It's 4.2 miles, slightly downhill (200ft elevation loss), ...

<Mini-thread hijack> A 200' elevation shift is a slight difference? Damn. We're lucky to see a 12' change across the entire Parish/County. </thread hijack >

Great info, by the way.

Looks like my MPG readings using the Scangauge up to today have been a little bit off. According to the manual, the Scangauge needs to be calibrated based on actual usage from fill to fill, and today I filled for the second time since acquiring the SG.

The SG had reported that I had used 6.6gal on the last tank over 180.2mi, for a MPG of 27.3, seemed very low to me as the driving I've been doing has been very MPG-conscious. Used the same pump and auto-shutoff so the fill should be accurate, and it only drank 6.0gal. This gave me a MPG of about 30, which is in line with what I had been expecting as well as what I've seen for the previous couple tanks.

I input this into the SG and it calculated a conversion factor of about -9% for my Patriot, so I expect the figures I am reporting from now on will be more accurate reflections of my real-world usage.

Anyhow, did some quick tests with AC vs. no AC this afternoon on a nice flat stretch of freeway.

At 55mph, MPG was holding steady at 34.8mpg; with AC this dropped to 30-31, about a 4-5MPG loss, or in terms of percentage, 10-12%.

At a high speed of 75mph, the AC caused a much slighter loss, of 2.5MPG on average (from 27.5 to 25). In terms of percentage the loss was about the same, 8-10% or so.

In town, I noticed drops of about 2-3MPG, from the low 20s into the high teens on the two quick runs I did.

Updated first post to reflect AC observations, new mileage factor, and Neutral coasting.

Also, I was on the freeway earlier for a bit and drafted behind a big triple-trailer for several minutes, reset the trip meter at the start...

6 miles (got impatient with going slow)
speed 56-59 mph
'trip' MPG 41.9!

Getting better MPG in the Patriot (for a couple miles, anyway) than a lot of folks get in their hybrids :D

My running average (last 3 fills) is up to 30mpg even now. :pepper:

The Scangauge has helped a ton, just letting me know how the Patriot wants to be driven... rather than guessing as I was before. My first couple of tanks with the Pat were around 26mpg, which is nice, but not great... having the SG (or, really, any realtime MPG feedback gauge) has helped me get an extra 5mpg out of it...:smiley_thumbs_up:

The sticker on the 2008 2.4L 4x2 CVT says 21 city, 25 highway; 24 overall... I kinda panicked when I saw that at the dealer, as I had been expecting to get at least the 22/27 promised by the 2007 figures..

Would guess that I'm now getting about 25 in town and 32 on the highway for a combined 30mpg, about a 25% increase over 2008 EPA :banana:

I have the 4x4 Off-Road package and average about 22.5 mpg. I took it out to the desert mostly highway and actually did worse mileage on pure highway at about 70 mph - about 20 mpg. There was some hills, up to 4000 ft then back down to the desert floor. Mostly kept A/C off with open windows (I'm nuts). I wonder if the Pat's mileage really dips at high speed -- the coefficient of drag has to be high on it due to the sharply angled windshield and chopped off rear. The hills could have affected it too.

GB1, your CVT2L is geared differently than my CVT2... I'm only turning 2250 @ 70mph, whereas I'd bet you're up in the upper 2k range... the windows down is also killer... can't say exactly what your best MPG speed would be but due to the different gearing it is probably lower than mine, maybe in the 50mph range?

I did a 225 mile trip today, with about 60% freeway (55-70mph), 30% rural roads (30-60mph), and 10% city (0-30mph). 29.7mpg for the day (CAL). I am happy with that as I was unable to draft off of any trucks due to the lack of traffic (darn, ha!). The Patriot seems to do a little better for MPG on the freeway as compared to the rural roads, which is the opposite of other cars I've had. The 35-50mph band for my Patriot just isn't particularly MPG-friendly....sweet spot is between 55-65. Then again, my old Elantra got best MPG at about 78mph, lol.

As an aside, the 120 miles prior to this were all city, average speed of 19mph, and I averaged 26.3mpg (CAL) for the fill.

I am still playing with the calibration on the Scangauge but am comfortable saying that the fill factor is somewhere between -5 and -13%. I expect that I'll settle on a factor in the -10% range eventually.

From now on I'll make notes as mpg (SG) and mpg (CAL), where SG is a Scangauge reading and CAL is calculated from gallons to fill / mileage traveled.

http://www.airtab.com

http://www.snakeoil.com :doh:

people usin evic, scanguages to get their milage what happened to pen an paper. that never lies , there is no period for the instrument to adjust to the driveing. Everytime I see someone have a high milage they used one of these tools. Just fill up, add up the miles traveled from last fillup divide it by the gallons used.

I use the pen/paper method every tank to verify my scangauge readings.

However, the Scangauge has an adjustment factor you put in after you compare how much gas you've used vs. what the scangauge says you've used.

If I drive city + Hwy mix, the scangauge has been almost 100% correct without any adjustment.

However, when I drive all highway, it seems to end up with a lower MPG reading than actual. Not much, but it thinks I used 11 gallons when I've only used 10.5.

Either way, its a great tool to see a 'live' reading or trip reading.

I wish there was a way to display the Live and Trip readings on the same screen

people usin evic, scanguages to get their milage what happened to pen an paper. that never lies , there is no period for the instrument to adjust to the driveing. Everytime I see someone have a high milage they used one of these tools. Just fill up, add up the miles traveled from last fillup divide it by the gallons used.

Read what I wrote... I am quoting instantaneous MPG and trip MPG using Scangauge... but total MPG using actual calculations.

My last tank was almost 30 MPG (217mi / 7.3gal), and that's using my actual miles divided by actual mileage. Lifetime for the vehicle is 28.2mpg.

Guess my odometer must be off, as well as the gas pump, and of course my calculator... no way that just changing driving habits alone could make that much difference, right? :doh: :doh: :doh:

And, FWIW, bitching about the absolute accuracy of the SG or EVIC ignores the entire benefit of having them... that you can see how your relative MPG varies based on what you're doing with the car!

It would be nice to get a few members here on this fuel mileage tracker (used www.tinyurl.com to shrink the addy):

http://tinyurl.com/33dvgs

It is really good to do mpg calculations over a longer period of time. Once you start using this tool, you will find it easy and informative.

Just checked out that websight.
I really like how much info it gives you with averaging out the mpg for all drivers or just comparing yours to others.

It would be great if more folks did out thier stuff on there since it seems there only seems to be 1 or 2/vehicle:smiley_thumbs_up:

Rich

It also keeps you honest. You will find out how much $$$ you spend a month on fuel.

That is a nice site.Thanks for the lead. I really like the comparison thing also.

If anyone wants to get really anal about all their car records, their is a cool program called Automotive Wolf (http://www.jeeppatriot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2535)that will tracks and graphs mpg among many many other things. No comparisons tho. But still a really nice program for 30 bucks.

Jim

Read what I wrote... I am quoting instantaneous MPG and trip MPG using Scangauge... but total MPG using actual calculations.

My last tank was almost 30 MPG (217mi / 7.3gal), and that's using my actual miles divided by actual mileage. Lifetime for the vehicle is 28.2mpg.

Guess my odometer must be off, as well as the gas pump, and of course my calculator... no way that just changing driving habits alone could make that much difference, right? :doh: :doh: :doh:

And, FWIW, bitching about the absolute accuracy of the SG or EVIC ignores the entire benefit of having them... that you can see how your relative MPG varies based on what you're doing with the car!
yeah, I see what you're doing, using the tools to adjust your driving habits to increase milage. 30mpg is awesome...looking forward to having one.

Very interesting research. I think the milage is pretty good for a vehicle the size, weight and shape of the Pat. I still wish they came with a conventional automatic tranny.

Sorry SGTarky, looks like I had a bit too much coffee :sheepish:

Took a 160 mile roundtrip today on the freeway, and had a chance to play with some drafting on the flat sections. Averaged 31.5mpg (SG) for the trip, with speeds from 55-75mph.

This includes the drafts below.

I did three long drafts:

1.) 15 miles, 59-63mph, about 10-12 car lengths back from a semi - 39.5mpg (SG)!!!

2.) 10 miles, 66-68mph, 10-12 car lengths behind a RV, 32.5mpg (SG)

3.) 10 miles, 58-60mph, 10-12 car lengths behind a Subaru Outback, 35.2mpg (SG)

Updated drafting section up front to reflect these observations.

MPG for the fill which included 50 miles of city driving where the SG said I got 24mpg.. 206.8mi/7.209gal = 28.70mpg (CAL)

Seems like I have the Scangauge calibration pretty much perfect right now, it was dead on the fill of 7.2gal with an adjustment factor of -8%.

Adding signature to track my lifetime MPG :)

Got brutal MPG on the last tank, 25.6mpg (CAL)... 220 miles, about 80% city. Worst tank since I bought the Patriot. Ouch.

It's also gotten appreciably colder here and with the short trips off of cold starts, it's taking a pretty big hit.

Then again, 21mpg is the 2008 rating for city mpg, so I shouldn't be too surprised.

Was hoping that I'd be able to get a solid 30mpg out of it on a year-round, daily basis, including commuting, but I think that's a little too hopeful for this little Patriot.

As the winter gets colder, the oil and grease will stiffen up, the tires will get softer, and the engine will run richer for longer until it warms up. All of these will give you a hit on the MPG.

You can counter these things a little.

Switch to a synthetic oil if you have not already done so. Synthetics are not nearly as sensitive to temperature in either hot or cold conditions. One should, however, wait until a few thousand miles have accumulated before switching. There is so little engine wear with a synthetic that it would take an engine a very very very long time to break in if you switched too soon.

Keep your tires inflated to near or at their maximum recommended cold temperature and check them periodically as the weather turns.

Leave your heater turned off until the engine warms. The engine will warm faster if you are not using the heater, and besides, if the engine is cold the heater isn't going to work all that well anyway.

Looks like I am holding true to the published estimates (2007) for my CVT2L with FDII. I am averaging 20.7 (per the EVIC) against 21 mpg published on the showroom sticker.

Set a new record for a trip today, 220 mile roundtrip up to the top of the mountains, about 50 miles on gravel roads, and back...33.7mpg (SG).

Had driven about a hundred miles in town previously so the tank MPG was just under 30mpg - 29.78 (CAL).

Coming down from the top of the pass, I had a 30 mile segment where I got 49.7mpg (SG). An elevation drop of about 4,000 ft didn't hurt :)

JeepFan-

I'm running my tires at about 45 psi right now. It's a little bumpy but I've seen worse, lol.

I plan to switch to synthetic at 6,000 miles (first change coming up soon at 3,000), and then run the recommended 6,000 mile intervals.

Hasn't been cold enough (yet) to need the heater but we've been in the low 30's overnight for the last week or so. Daytime highs in the 60s.

At 3,345 miles right now, going to get an oil change tomorrow to 5/20 full synthetic. We shall see if there is a bump in MPG (I've heard that 1-2mpg is possible).

Last three tanks have been in much colder weather, average of about 50-55F. I've been doing about 30% city, 70% highway. Average MPG has been 28.64 (CAL).

The current tank of 327.9mi/11.150gal=29.408mpg was at 25.1 (SG) for the first hundred miles or so which was all city, and then 31-32 (SG) for the remainder which was highway.

I think the lower temps (was near 90F highs in August; 50F today) have hit pretty hard, and are canceling out my learning of the Patriot's MPG characteristics. In previous vehicles I've always gotten the best MPG in summer, with 80-90F seeming to be the best range. Winter usually hits with about a 3-4MPG loss. So the fact that I haven't seen much of a drop (if anything, a slight gain!) in MPG since August. I'm looking forward to next spring/summer to see if I can top that elusive 30MPG barrier for a extended duration.

For my Patriot, I have landed at the following calibration numbers for the SG, and I don't see that I'll need to toy with them at all in the future. My MPG readings and distance traveled numbers with the SG have been very accurate for the past three tanks with these settings.

Fill calibration: -5.8%
Speedometer: +2.0%

Mitaku, do you use the same gas station for every gas purchase?

I have found variation in MPG based on Gas station.

I drive the same commute every day, so I am able to do apples/apples comparisons with different gas stations. I found my best gas mileage with Shell stations, and my worst with a particular BP station near my house.

I am guessing the difference could be ethanol, but I haven't seen any signs that show how much they each use.

When possible I use the same station and same pump.

It's E10 formulated 89 octane (they don't offer 87).

The pumps at the station fill to just above F (as opposed to the 1-1.5 gal above F that others have).

Decent mileage on the last tank, which was about 75 miles of city followed by 240 of highway up and over the mountain and back. 319.6mi/11.305gal = 28.271 (CAL).

Pretty good considering it was cold enough for snow (30-35F) for the highway portion of the trip, with some rain too. The SG for the day gave me a rating of 31.5mpg (SG).

Happy to be getting 28 in that sort of conditions, makes me more hopeful for 30+ MPG tanks next summer.

After 3660 miles, 28.141mpg (CAL).

I am now running Pennzoil 5/20 full synthetic, and plan to for the rest of the life of the car.

My mpg has taken a big hit the last week or so, with all city driving at average speeds of 25mph and lots of rain, combined with cold temps.

Still pulling about 25 in town... hopefully will boost overall MPG back up with a big (500+ mile) all highway trip this weekend. I think I'll average about 32-33, depending on weather and road conditions.

Just picked our up last night, and by the time we got home the display showed 23.6MPG (20miles highway/15miles side roads). Picked her up 8miles. Just figured I check in.

it is creeping up and up...yesterday on the way home the I got 25.9mpg...going about 70-75mph on the highway @ about 2250rpms. Total commute 34mi (29mi Highway/5mi City). Engine now has 230mi on it. Best thing about it...the engine isn't even broken in yet...so from past experience, it can only get better. So considering this, the Riot is on the way to be there where I expected it to be.

:)

For all you mpg geeks out there, join the hypermilers site in my signature (and mitakuuluu, and patriotkmc's) cleanmpg.com. Read up on some great mpg saving tips and start entering your info.

You can then link to a dynamically updated box like below (and more as seen on mitakuuluu's). Every time you enter new mpg data, your info on your signature is automatically updated.

It's nice to see the range, from the low end of the Patriot (me) to the high end (mitakuuluu) and the meaty middle (patriotkmc).

You know, we all need more usernames, passwords and forums to keep up with...
;)

nnJ

It's E10 formulated 89 octane/

This sounds like ethanol which is great for the environment.
However, if your talking MAX MPG....
1 gallon of dino gasoline has more BTU's
than a 90/10 blend.....oil company's know this however
They do not sell gasoline based on BTU continent
IE. a 90/10 blend would cost less then straight 100perct as the
BTU'S are less
What I'm trying to say with all this .....is 10/90 blend is
for lack of better terms "watered" down gasoline
less btu's kinda like light beer.
I always try to buy 100 perct gasoline as I go further with the extra BTU'S.

Today I drove my 2007 FDII trail rated limited Patriot for forty miles after the low fuel light went on. Since there is presumably two gallons or so left at the point the light comes on, and since I have been getting about 25MPG more or less, I would think the tank would have had around half a gallon or so left.

I then filled up the tank. It took fourteen and a half gallons.

Since the FDII has about a 13.4 tank and since you can get a little over one and a half gallons into the filler pipe and plumbing, 14 1/2 seems about right. From completely empty to completely full you ought to be able to get fifteen gallons in it.

To do this, however takes a bit of patience.

Fill the tank until the pump stops. Wait thirty seconds or so to let air vent from the top of the tank. Fill some more. Wait some more. after a while waiting won't make much difference since the pump will still stop right away.


Some gas station pumps are more sensitive than others and some fill faster than others. They all, however, fill faster than the air can vent once the tank starts to get close to full. They will rapidly fill the filler pipe and shut off the pump.

If you could trickle fill very slowly you wouldn't have to use the wait and fill wait and fill technique.

That extra gallon and a half can make a big difference whenyou are out in the middle of nowhere.

no matter how light i step on the gas.. i still get 21 mpg... im at 1200miles on my pat right now..

Fill when it is as cold as possible outside also. The gas is more dense and you get a little more for your $$.

Fill when it is as cold as possible outside also. The gas is more dense and you get a little more for your $$.

Hey Jimmy,
ya might want to mention that one should only do that when they are going to go driving enough to draw down the gas enough to not do harm to the vapor collection system. That same gas that is more dense when cold will expand when warmed up (assuming you just gassed up and then let the car sit overnight, etc) will expand enough to get into the vapor collection system, causing all kinds of problems.

(As I recall, older cars just puked it back out all over the garage floors..)

Hey Jimmy,
ya might want to mention that one should only do that when they are going to go driving enough to draw down the gas enough to not do harm to the vapor collection system.

I think you just did.

:)

Well, the display is definitely worthless in regards to the mpg. Today we fueled up and the display said that that tank gave us 20.9mpg. After filling her up, and did some basic calcs, it turned out that we got 23.8mpg out of the last tank. The weather has been extremely windy and raining like crazy. We are at 502miles on the engine since we picked her up. I have to sign up for this website with the EPA.

For what it is worth...I'm still happy with it and it will only get better with the mpg, at least from past experiences.

about 27MPG on the last couple tanks. about 80% highway(80kmh), rest city traffic. and about 80% my wife driving, 20% me. onboard computer says 25MPG, some of the difference can be explained by the bigger tires.

weather: cold(about 1 to 8 celcius), windy, raining every now and then. air conditioning off. odometer at 3500kilometers (first maintenance done = no more break in oils).

i'm pretty satisfied, compared to the 15MPG we got on our XJ Cherokee. :pepper:

my long highway trip got me two nice tanks in a row (29.7 and 29.1 CAL). this was 660 miles total with about 100 miles of city split evenly between the two tanks. it rained something awful both ways and i had a headwind about 2/3 of the time (why can't the wind ever shift to help ya?), so was very happy with the two tanks.

also set a new personal record by coaxing 356 miles out of a tank, and probably could have gotten another 30 more based on the fill (11.9gal).

last tank was a small fill of 4.3 gal after much city driving so only 26mpg.

Do you know if the scanguage can display in Imperial gallons?

not sure?

getting lower MPGs the last couple of tanks, in the 27 range... combination of more city driving, lower temps, and lots of rain/fog which increase rolling resistance. ah well.

nice big fat 30.18mpg over 305.5 miles, about 80% highway cruising at 55-65 mph, with a bit of drafting off of semis. no rain and higher temps bumped me up enough to make it over the 30mpg mark. looking forward to next summer where i hope to be getting 30-32 consistently.

Just got back from a road trip over thanksgiving. Fueled up and on the way back we avg 26.01mpg @ 72mph all the way thru. All together we have now 2321miles on the clock. Yeah, we are happy, and it will probably only get better...

EDIT: and just to show how worthless the EVIC read out is...it said 22.1mpg...and I did reset it before we hit the highway...

hard to blame the EVIC with a single tank, as your pump may have underfilled when filling up at the end of the trip (or overfilled at the beginning), making it look like you used less gas than you did.

however, my scangauge shows about 27mpg at 72mph, so assuming you weren't doing much stopping, i'd buy your 26mpg :)

i'm approaching a fill on what's going to be a brutal tank, about 300 miles of all city stop and go in cold weather and some rain (20-40F). will be happy if i break 23 on this one. yikes.

hard to blame the EVIC with a single tank, as your pump may have underfilled when filling up at the end of the trip (or overfilled at the beginning), making it look like you used less gas than you did.

You lost me there. The 26.01mpg avg comes from manual calculation of miles driven divided by gallons put into the tank at the end of the trip. The EVIC was reset at the beginning of the trip when we fueled up. At the end of the trip when I refueled, the EVIC showed 22.1mpg avg, while the manual calc showed 26.01mpg avg. So looking at that, the EVIC is worthless...we are talking almost 4mpg difference...If folks want to go by the EVIC, fine by me, after this I won't.

If the EVIC would say, for example, 25.3mpg and the manual calc would still be 26.01mpg I would get on board with saying, "ok...close enough". But 4mpg off is too inaccurate to even consider as a information source. Sorry.

Let me know if this makes sense -

You fueled up at the begining of your trip, and reset the EVIC. You traveled, say, 200 miles.

You refill at the end of the trip. The pump shows that you needed 7.7 gallons to refuel.

You calculate it out manually and see that - 200mi / 7.7gal to refuel = 26mpg.

However, your EVIC is reporting that you used more gas: 200mi / 22mpg (displayed by EVIC) = 9.1gal

What happened?

Sounds like at your last fill, the pump shut off early (say, 1.4 gallons less than the level of the fill to start the trip).

It's also possible that you got an overfill before you left on your trip -- right up to the tippy-top. The pump at the end of the trip shut off at a more conservative / normal spot to prevent spillage.

Either way, your last fill was to a level 1.4 gallons lower than the fill to start. Your EVIC has seen 9.1 gallons of gas fed to the fuel injectors. Your 'fill' was only 7.7gal.

Neither number is incorrect, nor does it mean that your EVIC is broken or worthless. The EVIC (OBD2 computer) has no way to calculate the LEVEL of fill each time - it is only capable of calculating consumption (average fuel flow rate * time the engire was running).

In pretty much any car, it's common to see a big difference in fill levels at different gas pumps. The design of the Patriot's tank is such that there's about 1.5gal of capacity in the filler neck. Some pumps will fill it all the way to the brim (and running down the side of the car, grr), and some will stop before it even gets into the filler neck. Hell, sometimes the same pump will give a different level of fill.

In my MPG graph, you can see that there's a pretty big fluctuation between tanks, and typically the high MPG tanks are followed directly by a low MPG tank, even if the driving conditions are more or less the same. I think that a lot of this is attributable to the tank design and that it's tough to reach a consistent fill level each time without doing some sort of manual top-off (to the point where you're sure it's 100% full).

Moral of the story is that while it's nice to see big MPG numbers from a tank, the only way to really get a handle on what's going on is to calculate for several tanks in a row - this way, you control for fill levels.

Now, if your EVIC were to be off by 15-20% on the low side consistently after several tanks, I'd say the EVIC were ****. :)

Thanks for the reply. I see what you mean.

I have been charting my consumption since I got it, always writing down the manual calc as well as the EVIC. The EVIC is always low by several MPG since I bought the car in October. For the most part we are getting 22.9-23.5/tank combined (according to the manual calc). I think our EVIC has yet to show anything above 21.4 on those fill ups and it is reset with every fill-up. So looking at the combined manual calc, and the highway calc we got on the last road trip, I find the 26.01 more realistic than the EVIC 22.1. If I go by the EVIC in that case we got worse gas milage on highway only, then we did combined with stop and go on all the other tanks during our regular commute to work. And I find that hard to believe looking at past vehicles I have owned and driven. Know what I mean? I hope this made sense.

Our A3 on the other hand is only off by .6mpg tops whenever I do the calc and compare to the MFI (Same as the EVIC). For example, manual calc is 29.8, MFI says 29.2. Something along those lines.

Again, thanks for the explanation!

Well, if you put it that way, LOL, I'd say the EVIC were ****. :)

Last three fills have been brutal, all around 24 mpg, this with 100% city driving and temps near 30F. Yuck.

Well, if you put it that way, LOL, I'd say the EVIC were ****. :)

I appreciate all your info though! Hope you know that!

For now I will just stick with the manual calcs...makes me feel better LOL

Manual Calculations over more than a few fill ups is the way to go. using your "Instant MPG" will help you drive for better mpg.

In my old Liberty (2002), I would get my best mileage watching the "Miles to Empty". It was sort of a game to see how long I could keep it off "0".

mitakuuluu - I was reading this thread this evening, and I had to go pick up my wife about an hour ago, and naturally I took the opportunity to drive the Patriot. For some reason I started thinking about things you'd said about engine RPM and such, and I discovered I can accelerate moderately by keeping my RPMs around 2k and still keep up with traffic (at least at non-peak times). Up until now it hasn't been that uncommon for me to see the tach hit 4 or 5k at times, and that might be required at times when traffic is heavy. But I was wondering if you might be able to play around with your scangauge and give 2k RPM acceleration a few passes versus a more standard approach, and see if it makes any measurable difference? Doing so certainly makes for quieter operation, even if the gas mileage difference is negligible.

nosirrahg,

i usually keep my RPM below 2500 even when accelerating. the only time i've needed to punch it up into the upper ranges (4-5k) have been when i'm getting on the freeway.

around town (20mph or less), i don't think it gets above 2k, i mean, why punch it if i'm going to be stopping in a block anyway? :)

as you may have guessed, we don't really believe in traffic around here...

This may be part of "me learning the CVT", but I've seen a definite improvement in my mileage this week just from making the switch from just short of flogging the engine to get up to speed, versus keeping it in the 2k-2.5k RPM area. I'm at about 200 miles on this tank of gas, with about 1/4-tank showing on the gauge. By keeping things @ 2k RPM I've seen an increase of 0.3 MPG on the dash MPG readout...considering that's a change at the END of a tank versus at the beginning, I suspect if I drive my next tank full keeping around the 2k RPM range I should see some improvement. I think the dash readout is right around 23.0 MPG right now (may have dropped a little while I waited in line to pick up my kid at school this afternoon); don't know how that'll translate to "real" MPG yet, but hopefully I can bump that up closer to 25 MPG without too much effort.

Haven't updated this in a while. Have taken a big hit this winter due to low temps, as well as a larger portion of city driving... hoping that it is just a seasonal thing and will be better in the spring...

23mpg with a lot of muddy roads,best tank all highway was31mpg,55-60 mph,1800-2100rpm,little higher on hills.

Sounds like a few could use a few extra psi in the tires and a possible "Grill Block" to keep temps up and get them up quicker.

Drag your cursor slowly across the grill:

http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/DarbyWalters/?action=view&current=DCP_0209.jpg

That's another thing, in the last two months I've dropped my tire pressure from 50psi warm back down to 35psi.

We're getting some especially nasty weather lately (snow, ice, freezing fog) and there's a marked difference between 50 and 35 in terms of traction.

i normally drive all city - and i get 20-22mpg with my 08 sport cvt2. This week i had to go visit clients so i did all highway. I got 312 miles out of one tank, just under 28mpg. That is going 70.

I'm new to the Patriot scene as of last Thursday, this thread seems like an excellent source to maxamize my mpg - thanks for keeping up on this !
2008 cvt2 2.4, seems all I need is a little more air in the tires and some less angry driving and I'll be right on track.
Just a quick thought - how about a higher thermostat in the engine to keep her warmer ? would that be an option to help out with the mpg ?

I've thought about the the warmer thermostat as well. I did a little checking thought not exhaustive but was unable to find one that was higher in range. Mileage does certainly take a hit in colder weather. Up until October, I was averaging just over 30mpg. It bottomed out in January when I was only getting about 24mpg average tank to tank. Overall average since purchase is still close to 30 at about 27-28mpg, but that still is a pretty big seasonal drop.

I get 21-22 city, 26-27 highway.

I'm gonna do the manual shift thing (5th after 18, 6th after 22)

21.7 mpg on my first tank, all city, with every day starting out below 0 degrees
I'm shooting for 25 mpg city by the summer
I noticed a big rpm drop between 30 and 40 mph in cruise mode just dropping from "D" to "6" but after about 45 mph the "D" wins out again. Could someone with the scan tool please check this for fuel economy in this range.
Manual shifting this unit all the time is rough on me as I tend to be an angry driver of late due to the whether, the traffic, the damn stop lights, the rough road with either giant holes or amazingly bumpy snow, and my 52 oz. coffee that simply won't fit in the miniature drink holders of this vehicle that are located almost under my right leg.
I work on keeping her under 2500 rpm during launch in auto and I could shift to 6 upon reaching speed on the areas that have a decent stretch.
Cupholder ideas anyone ???

Update! - I got in the Patriot with my giant cup and squished it between the passanger seat, parking brake lever, and shifter console and - Bam ! - my drink holder was there all along simply awaiting discovery

mitakuuluu,

Have you tested the accuracy of your ScanGauge with pencil and paper? You know, filling the tank and checking miles traveled vs fuel consumed. Does it need to be calibrated? Can it be calibrated if it is found to be off? This sounds like great device! Thanks for the detailed information.

Just under 22mpg on each and every tank so far.
1200 miles on her
all city
still breaking in, still cold every day
she'll get up there yet !

I noticed a big difference if I accelerate from rest more gently. Try that for a whole tank and compare it to your last tank.

Stop drafting behind trucks - the cause little stones to get tossed into your hood and windshield. You'll get paint chips and then rust. And your windshield will get little scratches and pits. And you will inhale fumes.

Stop drafting behind trucks - the cause little stones to get tossed into your hood and windshield. You'll get paint chips and then rust. And your windshield will get little scratches and pits. And you will inhale fumes.

If you continue to draft behind big trucks at least make certain you have an excellent accidental life insurance policy on yourself for the sake of your family.
They deserve it for putting up with the kind of person who drafts behind large trucks for all the time.
Even at $4 per gallon - gas is cheap compared to the thought of what happens when a 3,000# Patriot meets up with an 80,000# truck
And please don't do it with your family in the car with you unless they were really bad to you.
:banana: :pepper:

Drafting is OK!

With that said, there are two ways to draft.

1. What we noramlly think of. 2" behind a semi. Driver with balls of steel and a reaction time of a rabbit (sometimes). Dangerous as hell!

2. Finding a hole in the air about 6 car lengths back. You just have to find that sweet spot.

With 2, some of you will say that that is too close, but check out the next time you are on the freeway in the city between the rush hour times, how close are to the car infront of you doing 55? I never said it was the greatest idea, just OK. Also any vehicle can kick up rocks, you don't have to be behind it. I had to replace a windshield when a truck going the other direction kicked up a bolt from his outside wheel and it hit on the passengers side.

Beside drafting save you both money as it reduces energy usage for both. Geese do it and cyclist do it. There has to be a reason. :beerchug:

Just to update this thread after another year of observations... added a bit about snow tires in the first post.

I switched tires this winter to some 215/70/16 Hankook studded iPikes. Huge hit to the MPG, noticeable right off the bat in December and continued through to now (late March). Drop of 2-3 mpg from the balding stock tires. Now, it could also be a combination of the tires and some components (specifically, spark plugs, which I'm finally changing today) reaching the end of their useful lives.

Make sure to recalibrate your Scangauge if you switch tire sizes. The different diameter will cause the speedometer to read incorrectly (in my case, reading about 2% low, or approximately 60 when I was going 62). I used my GPS to calculate actual distance traveled on a couple of long drives (100+ miles) and adjusted the SG accordingly.

I've swapped out my plugs for NGK Iridiums, we'll see if that makes any difference. The old ones were eroded to a .060 gap (stock is .044).

If you have any theories or questions, please feel free to post and I'll be happy to test them out as time and road conditions allow (no, I'm not going to test the difference in MPG between 100 and 120mph :D ) RE: MPG-o-logy with CVT2 I see you updated you '07 post in March 09, so that I am assuming the data still holds....I don't know if I should shoot my 08 'Riot Sport 4x4 or myself, 'cus I'm only getting <15 MPG city, and only got 18 highway back in January, right after I bought it. I hadn't put on the 800 miles recommended break-in back in January [bought it 26 Dec 09] and was keeping under 55 MPH. But now, @ 1200 miles I thought the fuel economy would reward me for my patience & TLC. Not! :( Any Ideas, Thoughts, Suggestions? Thankx. PS....I am doing an oil change this week 'cus I figure the factory oil has been in there since July 08, based on the VIN info. I've chosen Castrol Syntec 5W-20 with a K&N oil filter. I'm also going to put in a new K&N air filter to improve air flow.

Drafting is OK!

With that said, there are two ways to draft.

1. What we noramlly think of. 2" behind a semi. Driver with balls of steel and a reaction time of a rabbit (sometimes). Dangerous as hell!

2. Finding a hole in the air about 6 car lengths back. You just have to find that sweet spot.

With 2, some of you will say that that is too close, but check out the next time you are on the freeway in the city between the rush hour times, how close are to the car infront of you doing 55? I never said it was the greatest idea, just OK. Also any vehicle can kick up rocks, you don't have to be behind it. I had to replace a windshield when a truck going the other direction kicked up a bolt from his outside wheel and it hit on the passengers side.

Beside drafting save you both money as it reduces energy usage for both. Geese do it and cyclist do it. There has to be a reason. :beerchug:
Hi, Re: Drafting, no, not beer drafting, in line drafting. Highway safety queens say give two seconds behind the vehicle ahead on dry pavement; [You know, one-second-one, one-second-two, etc] three seconds behind on wet; and four seconds if towing. So that some place in there, between 2 and 4 seconds behind, is bound to be that vacuum sweet spot to pull us along without using our own gas. Also, if we can see at least one of the semi's side-view mirrors then the driver can see us...every thing is copacetic!

My running average (last 3 fills) is up to 30mpg even now. :pepper:

The Scangauge has helped a ton, just letting me know how the Patriot wants to be driven... rather than guessing as I was before. My first couple of tanks with the Pat were around 26mpg, which is nice, but not great... having the SG (or, really, any realtime MPG feedback gauge) has helped me get an extra 5mpg out of it...:smiley_thumbs_up:

The sticker on the 2008 2.4L 4x2 CVT says 21 city, 25 highway; 24 overall... I kinda panicked when I saw that at the dealer, as I had been expecting to get at least the 22/27 promised by the 2007 figures..

Would guess that I'm now getting about 25 in town and 32 on the highway for a combined 30mpg, about a 25% increase over 2008 EPA :banana:

Hi, Picked this thread up with a question about the ScanGauge vrs. the
PLX Kiwi MPG gauge and scanner combo. This gauge also has a OBD II cable and some of the same functions as the ScanGauge, but is only about $85. I just wondered if anyone knows anything about the Kiwi. $85 is a great price, but what is one giving up, if anything? It's hard to part with $150 for the ScanGauge in this economy after handing over $18,000 for my Riot Sport. Kiwi also makes a more expencive model [about $250] with 'teach as you drive' readout to help drivers hypermile. It's like a road rally game right behind the wheel instead of on the couch. PS I joined www.cleanmpg.com and can get a group order discount for the ScanGauge @ $149, $10 cheaper than on Ebay. Ebay is where I saw the Kiwi gauges. Happy hypermiling.

Heck 45 lbs Tyre pressure??????? 35 is way high enough. Apart from the danger of lost traction , that must be a bone jarring ride & rubber thats only going to last 10 mins!!!

Got another question. The air intake on the 2.4L has a tube that extends backwards into the engine compartment that is blocked off by a removable? plastic plug. The tube itself is aprox 3" W x 1" D x 10" L. Is this possibly a warm air intake tube that can be opened in the winter to put warmer air into the throttle body and, theoretically, improve FE? The normal air intake is above the battery at the front grill, so that it is sucking whatever air is outside. Any info? Thanks.

Well, Casse, I'd first start by making sure you're figuring the MPG based on actual consumption as opposed to some external device (SG, EVIC, etc). You may be doing this already but just in case:

Go fill up at your preferred station. Use pump #1 (or whatever) and let it automatically shut off. Drive your daily routes and return to the same station's pump #1 to refill. Take the mileage driven (best if based off a GPS but alright with the trip odometer as long as your tires are stock size), and divide it by the gallons needed to refill. Repeat this several times and average the consumption over a number of tanks.

My second thought on your situation would be that your driving conditions might not be conducive to high MPGs. I lived in Rockville for a while and know that I always got crap mileage driving around the DC area because of all the stop and go (yes, even on the freeways). Hard acceleration & hard braking = horrible MPG. My 'city' driving now is nowhere near what it was in DC, in terms of stop-n-go (mostly stop on Macarthur, the GW, or Rock Creek Parkway on my commute to/from Arlington!).

I have noticed that ambient air temperatures and wet roads make a huge difference too. I get 3-4 mpg worse in the winter than in the summer. We're on E10 gas all year here. If you bought in January you'll likely see some improvement going into spring/summer.

No idea on the Kiwi thing. I like the Scangauge and it's already helped me with a couple of Check Engine lights on mine and others' cars, in addition to the fuel I think it's saved me.

I don't notice much difference between the stock 32psi and 45psi in terms of ride and wear. The stock Eagles were rated at max sidewall of 50 if I remember correctly, so they should be able to handle it.

That plastic thing you're referring to is a baffle to silence the air intake. It's removeable to access stuff below it, but I don't think it's designed to be taken off for daily driving.

Thankx, Mitakuuluu for your info/input. :( Yes, DC area driving is a drag, and what's worse, here in Takoma Park we live in the-land-of-many-speed-bumps. Just plain stupid. Aside from that, I have been using math to figure MPG, but not the same station, same fill level, so that I will do that over the next several tanks full. The baffle itself is hooked onto the air intake and can not be removed as a separate item, its just the plug at the end of it that maybe can be removed. Both it and the front air intake are attached together and lead to the air filter housing. Just a thought for warm air access. Keep on 'Rioting.

Well, if you've been doing it by hand already over multiple tanks, your calculations should be pretty accurate. The fill-point variation really only will show on a tank or two...after enough fills, it'll average out...