Wrong fluid is dangerous
May 1, 2007
Popular vehicles like the Dodge Caliber, Ford Freestyle, Jeep Patriot and Nissan Murano use a sophisticated new transmission that may be severely damaged if filled with the wrong transmission fluid, warns an executive with one of the companies that developed the fuel-saving technology.
Continuously variable transmissions, or CVTs, improve fuel economy about 6% compared with a traditional automatic.

However, filling a CVT with conventional automatic transmission fluid virtually guarantees a catastrophic and expensive breakdown, said Tim Miskotten of ZF AG, the German company that is the world's largest independent automatic transmission manufacturer.
"If you put automatic transmission fluid in a CVT, you'll break your transmission in a handful of miles," Miskotten said. "You won't make it home."
By Mark Phelan

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070501/BUSINESS01/705010380/1014


OK, so how much is the stuff that DOES go in there and how often is it to be changed?

From what I could tell it's to be done by the dealership. It's not a traditional drain it and fill it kind of job. In the manual it says that the CVT fluid is to be checked every 15,000 miles by a trained technician and then if needed, the proper fluid be added. It's actually to be changed at 60,000 miles. The brake fluid is Mopar CVTF + 4 or the equivelant.

Read that as well in my manual about the CVT. I wonder if, with the right fluid is can still be done by local mechanic.

well I've looked through napa and autozone and mopar and have yet to find the product anywhere, let alone a price.

Not suer if the Pat has this. But on the LX cars, you don't even have a dipstick for the trans...they do not want you touching them. Its a dealer service item only (and they are not even a CVT!)

This same philosphy (wrong fluid type) can be applied to regular ATF vs. ATF+4 [MOPARS specific blend]. If you put standard Dexron / Mercon in a Chrysler transmission it won't last too long.

I know of the missing dipstick scheme that Chrysler is trying with their customers but I wonder how many people complain about it at the dealership.

Thanks for the heads-up. I was going to pull the trigger for a CVT Pat for my wife a few weeks ago and am now REALLY glad I did not. I absolutely, positively refuse to buy any vehicle that will not allow me to do regular maintenance.

60k miles is just 2 or 3 years in my family and no telling what a dealer would charge for a CVT flush (especially since they have a monopoly on it). I could definitely foresee the "6% gas savings" being easily eaten up by this cost.

Julian

I belive the also advised having the levels checked at 15 K

This same philosphy (wrong fluid type) can be applied to regular ATF vs. ATF+4 [MOPARS specific blend]. If you put standard Dexron / Mercon in a Chrysler transmission it won't last too long.

I know of the missing dipstick scheme that Chrysler is trying with their customers but I wonder how many people complain about it at the dealership.

No scheme, and Chrysler isnt the only one doing it. Many OEMs did away with trans dipsticks, mainly because of the first paragraph in your post. A lot of the problems Chrysler had with transmissions in the 90s were design issues, but many, many more were from people using the wrong fluid. This was usually after the parts counter guy or quickie lube guy told them that "They say you have to use factory fluid so they can sell more fluid, ours is just as good." If you really want to do it yourself you can buy the factory special tool, which is just a universal dipstick, and probably find the temp to level chart online somewhere. Just make sure you buy the correct factory fluid for the transmission, it does make a difference and with the CVT you will find out real quick if you use the wrong one. Some of the bigger dealers with large online parts departments sell the tool and the fluids for a decent price.

Ktek01 is absolutely correct.

For example, my Toyota Tundra does not have a dipstick for the tranny. The way the level is checked on the toyota is similar to a manual tranny. Unscrew a bolt on the side of the tranny and see if fluid runs out a little. If so, it is full. Not sure if the Pat is the same or not.

No scheme, and Chrysler isnt the only one doing it. Many OEMs did away with trans dipsticks, mainly because of the first paragraph in your post. A lot of the problems Chrysler had with transmissions in the 90s were design issues, but many, many more were from people using the wrong fluid. This was usually after the parts counter guy or quickie lube guy told them that "They say you have to use factory fluid so they can sell more fluid, ours is just as good." If you really want to do it yourself you can buy the factory special tool, which is just a universal dipstick, and probably find the temp to level chart online somewhere. Just make sure you buy the correct factory fluid for the transmission, it does make a difference and with the CVT you will find out real quick if you use the wrong one. Some of the bigger dealers with large online parts departments sell the tool and the fluids for a decent price.
Thanks for the info. I'm oprehensive about having my dealer do it because of cost. However my local mechanic might with this info. All I need to do now is find out the correct fluid.

It's some "green stuff" that you might / or might not be able to get at the parts counter from your local dealership.

Hopefully he has the means of getting it. He also owns the NAPA store in town so parts and equipment orders are usualy not a problem through him.

Could you change your own oil do you think in this case even though it advises you not to...?

Valvoline makes an ATF+4 all-synthetic oil...
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=63

You can change your own engine oil.. That shouldn't cause any problems with warranty or failures. Just buy some good quality 5w-20 synthetic oil [after breaking in the engine] to put in the crankcase.

As far as the CVT fluid: I would be on the leary side of changing this myself until the car was out of warranty. Simply because you don't want to offer any bait to someone if you need to file a warranty claim. I'd advise not to unless you really know what you are doing around the CVT.

Agree about the CVT fluid. I'm sure that the CVT comes with a high quality synthetic that should last a long time. Under normal driving circumstances you probably don't even need to think about changing it for 5 years or so. By then we'll know more about CVT longevity, fluids, and the possibility for do-it-yourselfers to change it.

Under the hood in my Pat I noticed a small cap that must cover a tube leading to the CVT. It has "dealer only" words or something like that on it. I didnt take it off but there may be a dipstick attached to it.

I plan to get the service manual soon. It'll be interesting to see what the procedure is for checking CVT fluid level (and changing fluid). I'd be amazed if you were really forced to go to the dealer to maintain the fluid.

About the cap you noticed: Chrysler (DCX) stopped putting dipsticks on automatic transmissions in 2007. instead they plug the hole with a cap labeled "dealer only." If you get the service manual it'll tell you which part you need to order (the correct dipstick) to check the fluid yourself.

IMO it is a ploy to get people to return do a dealer service department but we might have already discussed that on the board so we will leave it at my opinion.

Oh - Hmmm. How about that. I think GM may be doing that too on some cars. I got that impression when I was looking at the Chevy Equinox. I may just buy that dipstick....

Could you change your own oil do you think in this case even though it advises you not to...?

Valvoline makes an ATF+4 all-synthetic oil...
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=63


That trans fluid is for regular Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge transmissions, not for the CVT. That fluid will fry the CVT, the fluid you need is CVT+4 not ATF+4. This is an easy mistake to make, and this is exactly why they stopped putting dipsticks in their cars and trucks.