well i do like my patriot, but i have a chance to get into a 07 JK RUBICON. i got to talking to the salesman who sold me my patriot. he since moved to another dealer. he located me a low mileage rubicon at another dealer about 60 miles away. executive chrysler lease. one owner. i was told it is flawless. no issues. i ran the vin on jeeps web site. no incomplete recalls exsist. i am not in the bucket on my pat. my pay off is about 1k less than what i owe. i am really on the fence. guess it gets down to how bad i want the rubicon. of course my monthly payment would go up. ball park would be about $340. here is said vehicle....
http://www.century3dodge.com/externalviewpage.cfm?pageid=84419&vin=1J4GA64197L103843
it is not a unlimited. miss print. its a 2-door.

A friend of mine had a Rubicon for a while. Loved the ability in the dirt but found the fuel economy a killer.

It's a sharp looking Rubi. I've always loved the wrangler, but everyone I knew that had one also complained about the fuel economy (and the fact they never took them off-road made it kind of pointless to have all that capability and not use it). All but one of them drive cars now (the one that kept his takes the train to/from work, so a tank of gas lasts him almost two weeks). BUT, you have to be happy with what you're driving, otherwise you're commute to work sucks, going out somewhere sucks, etc, etc! No sense being unhappy, life is too short. If you want the Rubicon, go get it!

Why do a lot of people just look at fuel economy when they think of buying a vehicle. Has the media so influenced people's buying decisions today?

One should think of the total cost of ownership. While I don't own a Wrangler, I do own a 1998 XJ Cherokee. The vehicle has been one of the best values I have ever purchased. With an odometer reading of 283,764 miles, it has served me well. A couple water pumps and alternators later, repairs have been at a minimum. The money saved on repairs have allowed me to buy a lot of gasoline.

We won't talk about the money saved by me in NOT having to buy a new vehicle. $30000 dollars today still buys a whole boat load of gas.

One of these days, my XJ will have to go to the big Jeep Junkyard. When it does, I will buy a vehicle that gives me the biggest bang and thrill for my buck--not what the media and anti-recreationists tell me to buy.

Sounds like a tough decision. Of course there is the fuel economy issue and when/if gas gets back up to $4.50 a gallon you will be hurting, mostly depends if you have another fuel efficient car you might be okay. Other than that obviously you get a lot more off road capability.

You will lose your hard topped Patriot. Of course you will gain a convertible and you could always buy a hard-top if the soft top is too tough in the winter.

What about insurance, it is more or less than your Patriot?

You will lose that capacity for a 5th person and a bit of interior space. No more hauling 8 ft. lumber inside.

Obviously up to you. I also like the wranglers alot.

Good luck with your decision, listen to your heart.

What do you need it for? I found it way more cost efficient to build a "funmobile" for $2000 and keep my Patriot then to ditch the Patriot for a more capable Jeep.

Why do a lot of people just look at fuel economy when they think of buying a vehicle.

I don't know of too many people just looking at fuel economy but it is a big factor. What swayed me in my Pat purchase was the excellent fuel economy. I live 4 kms back a dirt road and with the town spending less on snow clearing in the winter, I needed 4 wheel drive but too many vehicles demanded a V6 and automatic to get it.

Why do a lot of people just look at fuel economy when they think of buying a vehicle. Has the media so influenced people's buying decisions today?

One should think of the total cost of ownership. While I don't own a Wrangler, I do own a 1998 XJ Cherokee. The vehicle has been one of the best values I have ever purchased. With an odometer reading of 283,764 miles, it has served me well. A couple water pumps and alternators later, repairs have been at a minimum. The money saved on repairs have allowed me to buy a lot of gasoline.

We won't talk about the money saved by me in NOT having to buy a new vehicle. $30000 dollars today still buys a whole boat load of gas.

One of these days, my XJ will have to go to the big Jeep Junkyard. When it does, I will buy a vehicle that gives me the biggest bang and thrill for my buck--not what the media and anti-recreationists tell me to buy.

It is really a matter of purpose build vehicles. The purpose of the Patriot is is to get good mileage and offer some light off road, and poor road, ability.

What are you going to use it for? is the real question behind any vehicle purchase. I can't plow snow with the Patriot, so If I need to whittle down the fleet, the Patriot has to go. ALL my other Jeeps have plenty of power, heavy drive train construction and the Low gear to plow snow. Patriot does not. All of my other Jeeps can be driven 500 miles a day on highways across the country, just like the Patriot. Even the 1960 Willys wagon. Granted, the Willys is not as comfortable or as efficient as the Patriot, but it gets the job done in style! (much like the Wrangler in question)

If I could have only one Jeep, it would have to be the Scrambler.

So if you are going to use the ability the wrangler has to offer, or if you just like the tough wild look of a Wrangler, that is the right car for you. (As long as you have the cash to fill the tank.)

Ownership....In spite of their infamous poor mileage, Jeeps are recognized as the "greenest" vehicle out there because they last longer than other vehicles and there are more old ones on the road than any other make.

That Rubi is sure a nice Jeep. I can see why you are interested in it. The Rubi model is a purpose built Jeep with lockers and the rock-trac t-case. So the question is really, are you going to use it for what it was built for? If it will be just driven on the street wasting it's purpose/potential then think harder. It sure is nice looking though. I couldn't tell if it was a standard or auto trans.

You should give it a real good test drive both on the pavement and off to see if you really like it. 18-20 mpg will be the best you will get on the highway keeping your driving style in check.

Good luck with your decision.

Ownership....In spite of their infamous poor mileage, Jeeps are recognized as the "greenest" vehicle out there because they last longer than other vehicles and there are more old ones on the road than any other make.

Hmm... I wonder how much of that is due to the quality of the vehicle and how much due to fanatical Jeep fans keeping the old things going? :)

Agree to others that Rubicon is worth investments if you really take it to trails, as daily highway car...I don't know...still would likt to have it as a second car for shure!:)

As a car - as opposed to a Jeep :) - a Wrangler would be a poor choice, in my opinion. I did a very brief test drive of a four-door '07 JK last summer and it did not exactly impress me with its on-road manners (if one were to compare it with other vehicles that are made just for driving on the roads, that is). Off-road is an entirely different thing, though... :)

Some people do use their for a daily driver. This one lady delivers mail on a rual route. I know for us we'd like to get a Wrangler but hubby wants and 80's CJ but he wants it for running around the mountains. I'm for it. I think if you commute several miles a day it may not be a wise choice. If your retired and don't have a commute it might work, enjoy the outdoors running in the mountains and your looking for something more rugged, something to get then. I saw a very pretty red rubicon today. I drooled over it.

well the pats gone. so far i love the rubicon! what a blast to drive. it was really taken care of for a 07/13k miles. on road manners are great. the 32" bfg mud terrian km tires do a great job in the snow so far. just got to get some off road time in!

if it was comparable i would probably choose the rubicon regardless of gas mileage,
love the rubicons, but on that one, 2 door and softtop would be a minus for me

Speaking as a former Wrangler owner ( who would still own it if a G-Body hadnt jumped at me from outta nowhere.) Fuel Mileage, and teh soft top, and al of that means nothing once you are driving teh wrangler. I even have a 4 month old daughter, and would still be driving that Jeep if it werent for my obsession with v-8 lead sleds.

Speaking as a former Wrangler owner ( who would still own it if a G-Body hadnt jumped at me from outta nowhere.) Fuel Mileage, and teh soft top, and al of that means nothing once you are driving teh wrangler. I even have a 4 month old daughter, and would still be driving that Jeep if it werent for my obsession with v-8 lead sleds.

My mom has a 05 Wrangler and in my opinion, it's a ton of fun offroad and whipping around locally... but when I borrow it to travel over the bridge to Philly or head down the highway to the shore, the thing is a disaster! I can't stand the way Wranglers blow around like kites on the highway.

On the highway about the best my Patriot ever got was 24.5mpg. The '08 JK Unlimited I'm in now gets 23 on the highway. In town driving they are virtually identical--IMO the Patriots' in town mileage sucks for a 4 cyl(although I did have the auto). Now the Rubi you are looking at is a 2 door so you will lose some carrying space but it absolutely beats the Patriot and my JK X model when it comes to capability(kinda comparing apples to oranges there). My insurance stayed exactly the same. The one in that ad you are looking at looks like a soft top only option. IMO for what thats worth, unless you have a garage or you live out in the country I MIGHT pass on it only for the fact that the soft top will degrade in the elements faster if you live in a bad winter area and it is more susceptible to jerks ripping the top(this happend to me with the '05 TJ I had). If you do buy it put in a Tuffy box or some form of security if you have to leave something in the Jeep if you go into the movies, shops, etc. You can also buy tops used off of some of the JK forums or brand new from Quadratec for $2,000. Not that hardtops aren't broken into, it's just that convertibles seem to attract thieves & pranksters.

I've been considering the four door wrangler as my next jeep. The problem is that all of the other Jeeps in the range fall in to the highest CO2 emissions bracket. The road tax on them is over twice what I pay now.

(I read that this is going to rise each year for the next few years. So where now I pay £170 per year, the other Jeeps are £400 and these will rise to about £1000 per year.)

Oh, I thought I wouldn't mention the fuel economy as everyone else has already. That said I do love the rugged looks of the Wrangler...it just says 'Jeep'.

It sucks to live in the UK at times.