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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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2010 Patriot sub frame rusted

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Our daughter purchased a 2010 Patriot from a Used Car Dealership July 2015. We wanted to certify it again so that she can sell it and the sub frame is rusted with multiple holes of up to 2 inches. Therefore no Safety Certificate! Can holes of 2 inches appear after just 1 1/2 year? Or did the Used Car Dealership pass the safety when they should not have?
Sincerely not happy!
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 10:00 PM
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Welcome to the forum! Seems this '07 rust problem is suddenly getting a lot of attention.

In answer to your question, rust grows. As anyone knows, every car is bright, shiney and solid when it leaves the factory. After awhile things happen. Rust isn't nearly the problem it was a few decades ago when I was first getting into cars. A 10 year old car from the '60s would almost certainly have rust, and probably rust-through in places. My 74 Cherokee had rust-through by 1979, that's only 5 years.

Granted, frames are usually a pretty solid piece of metal, but I just mentioned in another post that the frame on my Dad's '69 Dodge was so rusted he could pull chunks off.

As for your case, small holes can be missed, especially if someone isn't trained to look for that particular spot, or defects can be intentionally overlooked. A 2" hole is pretty big, but none of us can go back 2 years in time to find out what it looked like then. Two years is a pretty long time to go back to somebody and accuse them of avoiding a defect. I know what they'll say, "Our service department would NEVER do that." So I can save you asking.

So yeah, to give them the benefit of the doubt, they probably weren't expecting that problem and probably didn't look real hard for it.

I don't know if that was a recall or an extended warranty issue. Check around this site to find out. If its a warranty issue and you aren't the original owner you may not have any recourse, but it doesn't hurt to try. A fair-minded dealer may at least try to keep your cost down. Or an independent shop will likely charge less, just because.

I had my '08 checked a couple weeks ago and it was still rock solid -- mechanic even said he was surprised it was that good. My service writer also said those '07s with the rust problems were built using an inferior grade of metal and once the problem was discovered, Jeep upgraded the part.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ignatz View Post
Welcome to the forum! Seems this '07 rust problem is suddenly getting a lot of attention.

In answer to your question, rust grows. As anyone knows, every car is bright, shiney and solid when it leaves the factory. After awhile things happen.
.....
As for your case, small holes can be missed, especially if someone isn't trained to look for that particular spot, or defects can be intentionally overlooked. A 2" hole is pretty big, but none of us can go back 2 years in time to find out what it looked like then. Two years is a pretty long time to go back to somebody and accuse them of avoiding a defect. I know what they'll say, "Our service department would NEVER do that." So I can save you asking.

So yeah, to give them the benefit of the doubt, they probably weren't expecting that problem and probably didn't look real hard for it.
^This, did the sub-frame have rust two years ago? probably. Did the dealer know about it? maybe, maybe-not.

Boxed frames/sub-frames (like the ones on the patriot) tend to rust from the inside out (salt, etc. gets trapped inside if the underside is not washed thoroughly and causes corrosion), so while it may have been rusting on the inside and possibly had surface rust visible on the outside there is a good chance it didn't have any visible holes yet (or just small "pin" holes that could easily be missed as Ignatz mentioned) two years ago and the large holes it has now may have occurred since.

That being said as a general rule, living in the salt-belt (PA) I never buy a used vehicle without looking underneath myself, even if a dealer isn't trying to scam you their service departments are the end of the day are being paid by the hour and generally want to inspect the vehicles as quickly as possible (especially since this isn't something the dealer is getting paid to do, except from the eventual sale) and may miss things that aren't obvious.

My XJ Cherokee passed emissions inspection two years in a row with a cracked exhaust manifold (common issue on 4.0L I6s, I knew it was cracked, but the crack was small and only leaked when cold, so I wasn't going to fix it unless I failed inspection) before one finally caught it and told me I had to replace it to pass, and these were shops I was paying to do an inspection on and had no incentive to pass a vehicle that shouldn't have (if anything they had incentive to fail it in hopes of getting the repair revenue which would have been much higher than the inspection fee).
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 08:23 PM
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I have a 2010 jeep patriot my sub frame frame everything is immaculate i bought mine used at 80k and i couldn't ask for a more solid first used vehicle i live in canada even my sway bar end links are still in great shape no rust im at 97k now
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Crane View Post
I have a 2010 jeep patriot my sub frame frame everything is immaculate i bought mine used at 80k and i couldn't ask for a more solid first used vehicle i live in canada even my sway bar end links are still in great shape no rust im at 97k now
The vehicle was either operated in a salt-free environment or the previous owner kept the under-carriage rinsed throughout the winters where road salt is applied as I do. Regardless, this anecdotal story doesn't help the OP who, along with an increasing amount of others are experiencing the same failure.

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Crane View Post
I have a 2010 jeep patriot my sub frame frame everything is immaculate i bought mine used at 80k and i couldn't ask for a more solid first used vehicle i live in canada even my sway bar end links are still in great shape no rust im at 97k now
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The vehicle was either operated in a salt-free environment or the previous owner kept the under-carriage rinsed throughout the winters where road salt is applied as I do. Regardless, this anecdotal story doesn't help the OP who, along with an increasing amount of others are experiencing the same failure.
The problem was only on the '07s. Jeep quickly realized they had inferior metal and got the problem corrected on future models. However the first-year models are all coming down with the problem now. Like James Crane, mine is fine and its been my snow car into its 9th winter now. As I said above, after reading some of these similar posts, and since mine is an '08 (which is pretty close to '07), I got scared and I asked my dealer to check it and I got a good report.

As for the OP, at least try a Jeep Dealer, tell your story and see if there is any extended help on that even if you're not the original owner. If there was a recall it wouldn't matter if you were the original owner or not. If there isn't a recall yet, there may be, so save the receipts for any work done.

Last edited by Ignatz; 02-04-2017 at 10:06 PM.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-06-2017, 10:28 AM
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The problem was only on the '07s. Jeep quickly realized they had inferior metal and got the problem corrected on future models. However the first-year models are all coming down with the problem now. Like James Crane, mine is fine and its been my snow car into its 9th winter now. As I said above, after reading some of these similar posts, and since mine is an '08 (which is pretty close to '07), I got scared and I asked my dealer to check it and I got a good report.

As for the OP, at least try a Jeep Dealer, tell your story and see if there is any extended help on that even if you're not the original owner. If there was a recall it wouldn't matter if you were the original owner or not. If there isn't a recall yet, there may be, so save the receipts for any work done.
The problem is present on my 08 (Manufactured in October 2007). I've had the front subframe replaced at around 70K. Rear subframe is rusty but not rusted through yet.

I bought mine 2 years ago with 62K on it. Previous owner bought it new and lived in NH. I live in Vermont. I have 103K on it now.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-07-2017, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Sdsjeep2008 View Post
The problem is present on my 08 (Manufactured in October 2007). I've had the front subframe replaced at around 70K. Rear subframe is rusty but not rusted through yet.

I bought mine 2 years ago with 62K on it. Previous owner bought it new and lived in NH. I live in Vermont. I have 103K on it now.
You may be a victim of the calendar year and not the model year. I would hope they'd honor the warranty for you.

My '08 was likely built late in the '08 model year; I bought it as a leftover in January '09. OP's daughter has a 2010 so that vehicle should be OK. Doesn't hurt to check. Dealer probably wouldn't charge for that if they're doing something else. My dealer gives me a 'multi-point' check at no charge (I'm sure they're looking for work to do), and if your vehicle has the rust problem, its potential money in their pocket, so they'll be sure to check!
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-07-2017, 09:38 AM
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The problem exists on more than '07 models, and I doubt the metallurgy or coating process was changed by the subframe supplier as this issue is now being seen on 2010's.

I think the only reason '07's have an extended subframe warranty is because it was negotiated after the bailout in 2009, and Cerberus/FCA wasn't assuming anymore liability.

Regardless, if there is enough reports of subframe failure submitted to the NHTSA and Transport Canada, a recall can be encouraged/enforced as has happened to Nissan, Toyota and other manufacturers.

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-07-2017, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
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You may be a victim of the calendar year and not the model year. I would hope they'd honor the warranty for you.

My '08 was likely built late in the '08 model year; I bought it as a leftover in January '09. OP's daughter has a 2010 so that vehicle should be OK. Doesn't hurt to check. Dealer probably wouldn't charge for that if they're doing something else. My dealer gives me a 'multi-point' check at no charge (I'm sure they're looking for work to do), and if your vehicle has the rust problem, its potential money in their pocket, so they'll be sure to check!
I was able to convince them they most likely used leftover 2007 subframes in my 2008. They gave me a good will warranty for both front and rear with $100 deductible for each. That's how I got the front one replaced. Just waiting for the rear to be condemned so I can get that replaced.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-07-2017, 04:23 PM
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The problem exists on more than '07 models, and I doubt the metallurgy or coating process was changed by the subframe supplier as this issue is now being seen on 2010's.
According to my dealer they did make the change in '08, but maybe not the early '08s as mentioned above. I can easily imagine someone on the assembly line saying, "Hey, I thought we were getting new parts?" "Yeah, we're supposed to but they haven't come in yet. Use what you've got. Nobody's going to know for five years." And so the early '08s were getting the junk parts installed.

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If there is enough reports of subframe failure submitted to the NHTSA and Transport Canada, a recall can be encouraged/enforced as has happened to Nissan, Toyota and other manufacturers.
At what point do they decide that its made of steel and going to rust eventually? If I still had my 1960 Ford could I take it in and demand that they replace virtually every body part and frame component because, hey, its rusty!?!? Reason must establish some limits.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-07-2017, 09:45 PM
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At what point do they decide that its made of steel and going to rust eventually? If I still had my 1960 Ford could I take it in and demand that they replace virtually every body part and frame component because, hey, its rusty!?!? Reason must establish some limits.
How many vehicles out there require a new subframe after only 6 years besides an MK JEEP?

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 05:42 PM
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How many vehicles out there require a new subframe after only 6 years besides an MK JEEP?
Apparently, rust is a problem for lots of brands:

Toyota Toyota pickup frame rust lawsuit deal reached

Honda Honda Accords Found with Sub-Frames Rusted Out | NH Oil Undercoating

Ford Ford recalls another 386K for chassis corrosion

Hyundai https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...on-settlement/

subaru https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/04/a...sion.html?_r=0

GM https://forums.edmunds.com/discussio...rriage-rust/p2



......I quite looking for more.

2014 Sport, 2wd, 2.4L, 6 speed tranny, Winter Chill
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 09:28 AM
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"lawsuit"
"recall"
"settlement"

Thanks for taking the time to prove my point.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 11:52 PM
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The vehicle was either operated in a salt-free environment or the previous owner kept the under-carriage rinsed throughout the winters where road salt is applied as I do. Regardless, this anecdotal story doesn't help the OP who, along with an increasing amount of others are experiencing the same failure.
Do you consider using the spray and wash facilities at gas stations as rinsing the under carriage? Or do you have to spray it yourself?
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