front outer axle shaft hub lock nut rattling- normal? - Jeep Patriot Forums
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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front outer axle shaft hub lock nut rattling- normal?

So i have had this clicking noise at 55mph since i took a long road trip and got back- noticed it on the way back abt 30 miles from home. I can only hear it with windows up and radio off. It seems to come at 55 and hang around till about 60 then goes away.

i had thought it was caused by the tpms sensor being loose but they fixed it and it's still there. nothing else under the jep is loose that i can find out.

my pass side mudflap did have a messed up screw- probably because i went through an auto car wash and it prolly got snagged on it- i never use those kinds of car washes but i could not find a diy with a spot free in all of gatlinburg or pigeon forge...

i fixed that today.

i did notice that on the front drivers side, if i banged on the center cap of my aftermarket wheel, i'd hear what sounds like sand or grit moving around. i also noticed while on vacation, that hitting concrete expansion joints at slow speeds like through the town, gave a rattle noise- i replaced the front brakes and rotors and still there.

i decided to pull off the front drivers side tire to see what's rattling. well, it's the collar that goes over the end of the axle that is held on with a cotter pin. if you bump it, rattles. quite easily.

see the picture.

seems like the collar is spring loaded and you can push it in then it comes right back out. it is what is rattling i think when i go over the expansion joints.

is this a big deal? the pass side doesn't rattle but i have not pulled that tire off to check how tight she is.

perhaps this is normal and i just never noticed?

if not normal, assuming i can get a new collar and cotter pin and it's an easy 1 minute job once the wheel is off?

thoughts?
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2013 patriot sport 4x4 2.4 5spd FD1 True Blue, Willy's Overland edition
215/70R16 Yoko Geo ATS on Drag 9s, a/c
front and rear wet okole seat covers, front and rear rugged ridge floor mats, cargo cover,cargo carpet, front custom cut splash guards, rear window crank rattle-delete mod.

Last edited by silverflash; 05-18-2017 at 09:33 AM.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
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passenger side does not rattle but you can make it barely make a noise if you hit just right. the collar seems alot tighter and the collar moves in just like the drivers side does.

so i am thinking this may be causing my rattle over expansion joints but not the clicking.

so question, to remove that collar and the cotter pin is it as simple as just removing old cotter pin and that collar slides off, put a new on one it and be done? or would there be a deeper reason why it's rattling?

thanks!


2013 patriot sport 4x4 2.4 5spd FD1 True Blue, Willy's Overland edition
215/70R16 Yoko Geo ATS on Drag 9s, a/c
front and rear wet okole seat covers, front and rear rugged ridge floor mats, cargo cover,cargo carpet, front custom cut splash guards, rear window crank rattle-delete mod.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
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so digging deeper i found a diagram of what i am talking about. i *think* the spring action is due to the wave washer flexing and perhaps the one has weakened over time causing it to be sort of loose so i ordered two of those (may as well doe both sides), two hub lock nuts and 4 cotter pins- only need 2 but why not just in case i break one or something.

if i take it in, it's covered under warranty but will cost 100$ deductible..


i am replacing parts 6,7,8 in the diagram.

thoughts?
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2013 patriot sport 4x4 2.4 5spd FD1 True Blue, Willy's Overland edition
215/70R16 Yoko Geo ATS on Drag 9s, a/c
front and rear wet okole seat covers, front and rear rugged ridge floor mats, cargo cover,cargo carpet, front custom cut splash guards, rear window crank rattle-delete mod.

Last edited by silverflash; 05-18-2017 at 09:34 AM.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 10:52 AM
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The ear tangs on the locking nut are broken off, that's why it's loose. The cotter pin is supposed to pass through the tangs and push it down onto the spring washer.

Dorman makes a replacement axle nut kit. $10 or $15 iirc.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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i am not seeing anything broken off. the pic i took looks about the same as the picture online of a new one.

but something obviously isn't right. where are the ear tangs as you call them? in my pic, the cotter pin is resting against the cutouts on the top of the lock nut as it appears to be designed to do and there is spring pressure from the underlying wave washer? but i don't know....

does it matter how that wave washer goes back on- a new one i mean?

is it supposed to be a certain way? jeep dealer did retighten axle nuts way back under warranty so maybe they put it in backwards if that's possible?


2013 patriot sport 4x4 2.4 5spd FD1 True Blue, Willy's Overland edition
215/70R16 Yoko Geo ATS on Drag 9s, a/c
front and rear wet okole seat covers, front and rear rugged ridge floor mats, cargo cover,cargo carpet, front custom cut splash guards, rear window crank rattle-delete mod.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-18-2017, 09:07 PM
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I don't think that the direction of the spring washer will matter. The FSM doesn't mention anything other than putting everything back together and installing the cotter pin. The axle nut is tightened to 180 ft. lb., is doing ALL the work, and will not loosen unless someone screwed up really bad. That sheet metal cap is just there as an emergency stop if the axle nut should somehow come loose.

I think you might be right that the spring washer lost some of its strength, allowing the lock cap to rattle. You might have been able to remove the old spring washer and bend it to restore enough pressure. You could have just bent the cotter key a bit to hold down the lock cap. Or, you could have taken a punch and bent that lock cap a bit so that it could not rattle. It provides no structural strength. A bit of RTV under the cap would stop the rattle too.

I prevent all that rust by painting those parts with fluid film, anti seize, etc..

2014 Sport, 2wd, 2.4L, 6 speed tranny, Winter Chill

Last edited by Treegrower; 05-18-2017 at 09:11 PM.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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i figured bending the cotter pin and rebending wouldn't be good for it as i don't have any cotter pins lying around to replace it if it broke.

i am thinking this loosening doesn't normally happen unless you remove the cap/washer/cotter pin like they would have to tighten the axle nut- they did that because i complained of clunking in front end when steering at a stop- still does it after 68,000 miles. lol...so it's just the nature of the beast.

I will say, i have seen some other posts about rattling when hitting expansion joints that people chased and chased and never found. i wonder if this is the culprit?


2013 patriot sport 4x4 2.4 5spd FD1 True Blue, Willy's Overland edition
215/70R16 Yoko Geo ATS on Drag 9s, a/c
front and rear wet okole seat covers, front and rear rugged ridge floor mats, cargo cover,cargo carpet, front custom cut splash guards, rear window crank rattle-delete mod.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-22-2017, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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replaced the washers, locking nut/cap and cotter pins for both sides.

Easy and quick job. and it doesn't rattle when i hit with my hand.

time will tell if it fixed the rattle over expansion joints but i think it may have....


2013 patriot sport 4x4 2.4 5spd FD1 True Blue, Willy's Overland edition
215/70R16 Yoko Geo ATS on Drag 9s, a/c
front and rear wet okole seat covers, front and rear rugged ridge floor mats, cargo cover,cargo carpet, front custom cut splash guards, rear window crank rattle-delete mod.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-22-2017, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
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one question.............

the cotter pin.


does it fold over on both ends or just one with the other not bent at all. from what i see online, all the pics show just one end bent. mine was both ends bent after dealer snugged down axle nut way back and i don't remember what it looked like from factory.

does it matter?

thoughts?


2013 patriot sport 4x4 2.4 5spd FD1 True Blue, Willy's Overland edition
215/70R16 Yoko Geo ATS on Drag 9s, a/c
front and rear wet okole seat covers, front and rear rugged ridge floor mats, cargo cover,cargo carpet, front custom cut splash guards, rear window crank rattle-delete mod.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-22-2017, 12:34 PM
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Sometimes the simplest questions can become intriguing. I never gave this much thought. I Googled "proper cotter pin bending" and came up with different answers.....look at images and text.

I have always bent both tangs and tried to make the pin tight so that it does not rattle around loose. On heavier castillated nuts, I believe it is more proper to seat the one end inside the the groove and bend one tang up over the bolt/nut and trim the other one short enough to bend down. See article below. In all cases, you don't want long, loose ends that could be snagged or catch something.

Here's an aviation article: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...9Sdoog&cad=rja

I would say that your original picture was correct. EDIT - see my retraction below!!

2014 Sport, 2wd, 2.4L, 6 speed tranny, Winter Chill

Last edited by Treegrower; 05-22-2017 at 10:21 PM.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-22-2017, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
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you mean what i posted? with both ends bent down towards the hub lock nut thing? I've seen lots of pictures of other patriots with the front tire off and they all seem to show just one end bent down across the face of the hub lock nut and the other untouched. Weird. very... IMHO.

like this......
http://s21.postimg.org/6ss9zrxl3/201...5_09_27_26.jpg



My biggest "worry" is that the hub nut lock thing will become unrestrained by the cotter pin side that has the eye in it and then it, just the hub lock nut part, will clang around in that space behind the wheel.

I doubt this will happen but the openings on the side of the hub lock nut are wider than the cotter pin eye is so i suppose it's possible?


2013 patriot sport 4x4 2.4 5spd FD1 True Blue, Willy's Overland edition
215/70R16 Yoko Geo ATS on Drag 9s, a/c
front and rear wet okole seat covers, front and rear rugged ridge floor mats, cargo cover,cargo carpet, front custom cut splash guards, rear window crank rattle-delete mod.

Last edited by silverflash; 05-22-2017 at 04:31 PM.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-22-2017, 07:54 PM
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One tang over the bolt end, one untouched and straight, that's how we do it in heavy industry, have never had an issue with that method.

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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-22-2017, 10:03 PM
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Pardon my ignorance. It seems that DJMurphy is more correct. You learn something new every day!

2014 Sport, 2wd, 2.4L, 6 speed tranny, Winter Chill
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-23-2017, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
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well the dealer tech that last touched my jeep did it the way i did it which was bending both ends over as in my original pic. maybe it doesn't matter and maybe it comes that way from factory for ease of assembly? it's faster bending one versus two ends over.....

so who really knows...


2013 patriot sport 4x4 2.4 5spd FD1 True Blue, Willy's Overland edition
215/70R16 Yoko Geo ATS on Drag 9s, a/c
front and rear wet okole seat covers, front and rear rugged ridge floor mats, cargo cover,cargo carpet, front custom cut splash guards, rear window crank rattle-delete mod.
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